| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
Moto2 will show how the trellis frame is good but out of date compared to the twin spar designs How? The trellis frame has many advantages over twin spar alloy frames particularly in racing, as it is much easier to make changes and adjustments to a welded up trellis than it is to make a new cast frame section. I think the trellis frame has many years life left in it (as Ducati are showing of course) and we will see more of the 'bonded' composite trellis/alloy/carbon frame such as Bimota and even the 'traditional' trellis as used by Bottpower and AJR (racing in Spanish CEV Moto2 class).   Trellis frames are much easier to 'build in' chassis flex, which is becoming more important than absolute rigidity these days, and are also much more economical to make than a cast/extruded alloy beam frame. For smaller manufacturers the economies of building a trellis steel frame make much more sense then aluminium beam frames, so I can't see them disappearing any time soon. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
A steel trellis frame is a good "budget" frame. If you need something "better", aluminium alloys are superior and more expensive of course. | ||
| Jaimec |
Vagelis, Matt just gave a long explanation debunking your theory. What's your evidence? | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Motogp bikes. Do you like watching the Ducati bike ??? It has a bad reputation for its handling, right ?? | ||
| Jaimec |
Does it? Doesn't look like Haga, Fabrizio or Checa were having any kinds of problems at all with it. | ||
| Buell2001b |
Ducatis are on a class by themseves. the jappy bikes have no soul | ||
| Blake |
Anything short of a MotoGP chassis is a "budget" chassis? I'd not agree with that. | ||
| Blake |
Seems to me that some of the cheapest sport bikes on the planet utilize aluminum alloy frames. | ||
| Trojan |
Seems to me that some of the cheapest sport bikes on the planet utilize aluminum alloy frames. For a large manufacturer alloy frames can be cheap to mass produce once they have done all the development work. A trellis frame can be actually harder to mass produce than a cast alloy beam frame and if you have the facility to make a cast frame then you can churn out thousands of them no problem. Aluminium beam frames were a revelation back when tyres and suspension technology wasn't as good as it is today, when you needed a very stiff and rigid frame. Now that tyre technology and suspension is much more sophisticated frames need to have some flex built in otherwiose the chassis is too rigid and handling will suffer as a result. A trellis frame has advantages here as you can adjust flexibility by adding and removing frame rails to alter rigidity. Modern bonding/gluing techniques are now a lot better too, so I think we will see more frames made up of cast and trellis sections like Bimota are doing with their new Moto2 bike. | ||
| Jaimec |
Toseland seems to be getting better, though he's still racing with a broken hand. The races will be televised here TOMORROW at 3:00 and 4:00 PM EDT. Please don't post spoilers? Thanks! | ||
| Jaimec |
I think Sterligarda Yamaha is missing Ben Spies. And what's up with the factory Xerox Ducati bikes? Fastest Duc out there is Carlos Checa! Is this the resurgence of the Roman Emperor? Looking to be an interesting season indeed! | ||
| 46champ |
They screwed up in the first round of Super Pole and got to start the races from the back of the grid. Kind of hard to challenge for the lead when you start 18th. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Factory ducatis are slow. Who cares ?? The races were excellent ! | ||
| Jaimec |
Starting from the back of the grid has never been a problem for Haga before. Just an observation on something Matt (Trojan) has said in the past about GP riders in Superbike. It looks as though GP riders can do well if they ride a bike that is essentially a MotoGP bike built for the street...  | ||
| Trojan |
I think Sterligarda Yamaha is missing Ben Spies. I'm sure they do, but won't be losing much sleep over it. Things move on, and Crutchlow qualified his Yamaha almost half a second faster than Spies time from last year (and that was considered to be an amazing time that nobody would get near for a long time). For some strange reason Yamaha have tried to change too much on the bike from last year even though there was plainly nothing wrong with the 2009 bike, so are still playing catchup even two races into the 2010 series. Toseland said that it has improved a lot but they have had to 'turn down' the power in order to use the same tyres as everyone else otherwise they were destroying tyres in 5 laps. You could see in race 2 that Crutchlow just couldn't run with the Aprilia or Suzuki on the straight, and made a mistake on the brakes in race one trying to keep up. I'm sure they'll get it sorted and expect to see both Crutchlow and Toseland nearer the front as the season goes on. Aprilia looked invincible in both races and Biaggi was able to just power past Haslam with impunity on the straight every lap. With Camier on the second Aprilia also improving it looks like it will be a close fight for the individual and team championship this year  The factory Ducatis definitely looked out of sorts all weekend, especially when you see how well the Althea team did in both races. Even Haga looked second rate in the races despite his good start in race one. Heads will probably roll at Ducati soon. Checa has confounded my earlier opinion of him as a crasher and certainly seems to be more at home at WSB more than he looked in GP's. He appears to be the only Ducati rider who can consistently run at the front this year and hasn't really crashed since I accused him of being 'Careless Chucker' last year! (Message edited by trojan on March 29, 2010) | ||
| Gaesati |
Matt, Any updates on your xr1200x? i realise its not in superbike but is it, in developed form, as good as a firebolt? | ||
| Trojan |
Matt, Any updates on your xr1200x? i realise its not in superbike but is it, in developed form, as good as a firebolt? Hi, Our Xr1200 won't ever be as light as the Firebolt even though we have shaved over 40kg (80lbs!) off the stock weight and made handling and power much better. One of the journalists who recently rode our XR1200 likened it most to the Ducati Monster 1100 rather than any of the other H-D models (which I took as a compliment). We have recently given it another makeover and it is now very 'retro' with Cal Rayborn tribute paint work too  | ||
| Jaimec |
Checa seems to find the Ducati a good match for him. | ||
| Duggram |
Matt, What did you do about the rubber mounts on the XR1200? I have an '08 XL1200 and it's flat scary in a fast corner. Lot's of wobble. | ||
| Trojan |
Matt, What did you do about the rubber mounts on the XR1200? I have an '08 XL1200 and it's flat scary in a fast corner. Lot's of wobble Raised the back end by 2", dropped the forks through the yokes by 1" and fitted decent Bitubo shocks. This is absolutely solid in fast corners with no wobbles or twitching (the damper is only fitted as an advert for what we do and isn't really necessary). The motor is still rubber mounted aqnd the frame is stock. The same should work for the XL1200 but you'd need much longer rear shocks to do it I think. | ||
| Firstbuell |
Trojan, I've long agreed with yer "Carlos Chucker" [similar to my own "Carlos Crasher"] despite our accurate memories, I've always liked CC, finding him personable & EZ to interview - with quite a long career, too! [superior personal management?] CC's a pal of local hero Doug Chandler & he's been a sometimes visitor to San Francisco Bay Area supermoto & dirt-track events here's to him & Roger Lee Hayden & all those SBK competitiors - give us a great 2010 show, boys !! | ||
| Buell2001b |
Aprillia spanks the japp bikes not once but twice in Portugal Ducati wins in AMA the italians make great bikes | ||
| Buell2001b |
that XR looks like going back to the 50's | ||
| Gaesati |
The xr looks fantastic, Matt. I wonder what's wrong with the factory ducatis? Cal Crutchlow will hit his stride soon. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Aprilias are not legal for WSBK !! There is a lot of controversy about their gear driven camsafts for their WSBK racebike.......Their streetbike uses chain driven cams. I think that Ducatis are way down on power. The size of the air restrictors must be reviewed. If you take Checa out .....all the rest of the Ducatis are having average races. Checa seems to have clicked with the Ducati chassis. All he needs is some more power and he would be fighting for the wins and the championship. Ducati chose to keep the same racers, that seems to be a bad decision. Come one Ducati, give Checa a factory engine, or choose to look very average. Same story as Kawasaki for Ducati ?? | ||
| Buell2001b |
lol sounds familiar, anybike that beats the japps are considered illegal. they need to sto being such cry babies | ||
| Jaimec |
What happened to Fabrizio and Haga, though? Their bikes are faster than Checa's but they're not doing anything with them?? | ||
| Trojan |
Aprilias are not legal for WSBK !! There is a lot of controversy about their gear driven camsafts for their WSBK racebike.......Their streetbike uses chain driven cams. Unfortunately the FIM disagrees with you and has said they are legal and Aprilia can use their gear driven cams after the Monza round (why not straight away if they are legal after all?). Politics have obviously come into play seeing as Monza is the fastest track on the calendar. This whole fiasco only all came about because the rules are not 100% clear in what they mean, and are open to teams 'interpreting' the rules in their own way. Most teams wanted the FIM to make a definitive judgement but they haven't, and have basically just fudged it until the next time. This leaves it open to other teams to now run expensive gear driven cams on their bikes too, which allows more reliable high revs hence more power, but adds significantly to costs. Aprilia actually claim that this will lessen their costs as their bikes currently have an engine life of just 900kms (550miles!) before cylinder heads need to be changed. Aprilia though will have to offer the gear driven cam kits to customers through Aprilia dealers to be fully in sync with the rules, and at a rumoured cost of some US$60,000 I can't see many being sold So much for bringing down the costs of Superbike racing. As for Ducati being uncompetive in Portugal: Haga still has internal injuries from the first round after bing 'missiled' by Xaus, and is apparently still p*ssing blood two weeks later! Fabrizio was similarly beaten up last weekend so both factory riders were well below their best. I'm sure they will 'bounce back' by the next round so don't start asking for any technical favours for Ducati just yet. They did just fine last year with the current airbox restrictions in place. So far this season has favoured the teams that have done the most extensive testing and hard work over the winter (Suzuki & Aprilia). As the season progresses I'm sure others will catch up, but it goes to show the benefits of good preparation | ||
| 186bigtwin |
XR looks great. Kinda reminds me of the first years of BOTT's back in the 80's, more modern though........ | ||
| Jaimec |
The original Honda VFR Interceptors sold for the street had gear driven cams, and those bikes were nowhere near $60K!! WTF?? |
