| Author | Message | ||
     Justa4banger |
Cataract.. your comment is incorrect. its 1 bike that was dynoed over 10 times with the race ECM...and this still does not explain the loss in measured hp. its not just down on power in one spot, its down across the map. | ||
| Blake |
What Cataract stated is 100% accurate. Your results compared to others do indeed amount to a statistical outlier. Asserting otherwise means that you are claiming quite outrageously, that EBR is selling fraudulent/bogus product. I know for a fact that truth is the opposite. | ||
| Cataract2 |
J4B, I'm not bashing you here, but if I tested just one thing in my line of work and claimed that all others will have the same bad results because of my one test (or 10 with the same hardware), I would be removed from my position. You may have ran the test 10 times and gotten the same results. But using the same hardware each of those times does nothing but showing that your hardware is most likely faulty. If I had such a thing happen at my work I would swap out the hardware (ECM) with another of the same type and run the test again. That way I could verify if the ECM is bad or if the whole lot could be bad. WE only have your dyno test to go off of. No one else here has dynoed theirs yet. So we really can't go to a conclusion on the results until such has happened. I did read in your other thread that your dyno setup could be the cause also. You have multiple points of failure here and I would start with a clean slate and go again. Also, I look forward to others dynoing their bike with the Race ECM so we may have more graphs to work with and then can indeed see if it's the ECM or if it's just a fluke run you have here. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Mountainstorm, well, yeah. We do get more done. It's just the pissing contest that seem to be getting started over this. | ||
| T_man |
I'm going to interject this - because I've asked it a few times elsewhere and got no response: Does anyone know if you can access the EBR Ecm with ECM spy? If so; you could easily jog the AFV's to whatever you damn well pleased and be done with it. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Curious why people with direct knowledge seldom bother to post on this forum? From the Pegasus' mouth (RE posting info on BadWeb): "There is too much drama there." What might pass for excitement or entertainment to the lolcurious bystanders has driven away at least two "elves" just recently. It would a helluva lot easier to find out what's happening without all the red mist. | ||
| Moosestang |
I'm going to interject this - because I've asked it a few times elsewhere and got no response: Does anyone know if you can access the EBR Ecm with ECM spy? If so; you could easily jog the AFV's to whatever you damn well pleased and be done with it. There is no option in ecmspy for a front AFV, only the rear changes. | ||
| Court |
>>> has driven away at least two "elves" just recently. Actually several more. I tried to ask some questions, simply to get an idea of what combination this nice fellow was using and his methodology and I got bombarded from every direction. . . . and I never even questioned his results beyond the fact that they look strange. There have been about 6 folks who are engineering professionals with excellent credentials, one who lives in a dyno room all day, everyday developing performance race motors who have looked, simply shook their heads and walked away. My performance bike days are behind me . . mine ran GREAT. My S2 is making more HP than we'd ever dreamed when we set about building the motor. When the BadWeb folks decided to combine their talents several years ago, in the days when disagreements resulted in discussions not arguments. . .we put our heads together and broke Bonneville records that folks are still dreaming of breaking today . . in fact still hold the record for number of Land Speed Records set in a day. Richard Nallin did the same thing when he and Brian went to Australia and set the world drag racing records on their ass. FMJH . . same thing and joined Richard, Timbo, and others in the 200MPH Club. I tried to ask some questions and never really got anything beyond being told I'd never pulled a trigger . . the conversation not only went off the road, through the gutter but off a cliff. I'm old. All my bikes run great, my cars run great and I've got no axe to grind and nothing to prove . . it's been done. I do like to help . . but anymore I'm finding myself more and more simply telling folks "call your dealer". I hope whatever you guys are trying to do works out. I do resist that I am resisting the urge to send the same parts to 4 noted motorcycle tuners and seeing what results I get back. It's interesting . . but what used to be fun is now like wading through bullshit. No interest. | ||
| Justa4banger |
Until another owner posts dyno info. my information isn't wrong, its just not what we were hoping for... | ||
| Highscore |
"AFV" - "Air-Fuel-Value": Is this just the term for "AF-ratio" or "Luftzahl (Lambda)"? | ||
| Rocketsprink |
from the other thread. Seems some errors were made. "Just got off the phone with Buell. i need to run the bike back at stock in order to verify something else didn't change.... Apparently they have sold alot of these ECM's and i'm "that guy". i guess its my lucky day. : D So i guess now its back to the dyno to see whats going on... A Couple clarifications. On somethings i was WRONG and some things i was not.YES the O2 sensor can adjust the Entire open loop map. the changes are minimal but they do occur. Having the O2 sensor in the configuration i had it can throw a fault and basically send the bike into Limp mode (a safe mode to get the bike home). Now if the 02 sensors were just disconnected this would throw no code and just run open loop. since i had my sensor connected and in circut, i COULD have caused a fault and sent the ecm into limp mode. Of course since i did not get the check engine light (no historical code either).. its hard to say if this happened or not. Considering i ran ALL the tests in this configuration though, the baseline runs would have been affected also. Buell claims there is fuel added every where on the map. He also says that because my bike is an 08 the a/f readings that i have received may not be entirely accurate, thats the reason for the running change in O2 sensor location on the 09's + Yes there were flaws my test method, but atleast ALL the runs were flawed... and yes my thoughts on how this the O2 sensors apply changes is WRONG. i admit it. But i would have to just cruise on the dyno, for those 10 min warmup sesions the dyno operator did not cuise. he constntly varied the throttle from up to down and vise versa... his point was to ensure the O2 sensor was not sampled. This still does not explain the lower hp numbers. Buell could not make any sense of it either. (they have not looked at the dyno charts , photobucket is blocked at their work) Buell Believes that there could be a lean fire miss (@ 8K rpm) and thats causing the spike in the a/f ratio. so right now my course of action is to go back to stock and run the bike to re verify my baseline, and also run the bike on the dyno with the front o2 sensor in... just to see if the numbers go up. SO back to the dyno again just to see what the hp numbers are. screw the a/f ratio i just want to see if theres ANY KIND OF change..." | ||
| Id073897 |
"AFV" - "Air-Fuel-Value": Is this just the term for "AF-ratio" or "Luftzahl (Lambda)"? Nein. Zitat: "Adaptiver Fuel Value ist alles andere als neu. Das konnte die Bosch L-Jetronic aus dem Jahre Schnee auch schon." (Message edited by id073897 on February 12, 2010) | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
translation (gotta love google) : No. Quote: "Adaptive Fuel Value is anything but new. That was the Bosch L-Jetronic from years of snow already." Jake | ||
| Dannybuell |
When people get overly excited strange things happen. Do not discount anyone anywhere, that pain goes away slowly for many. Successful relationships begin and grow with respect. People that are respected view those relationships as positive experiences. Open, democratic, and respectful are the seeds for growth, all else is death. dannybuell (Message edited by dannybuell on February 12, 2010) | ||
| Reepicheep |
OK, I have a dyno in my garage, and using the new EBR ECM, I made 11ty million HP on an XB9 with one plug pulled and running on olive oil. There. Now your information is wrong. Or maybe there is just more investigation to do, and some better test procedures needed. Like not taking the O2 sensor out of the exhaust and dangling it off the side of the bike for starters. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Wow. Read Danny's post then Reep's post and you can really see it's not going to be all unicorns and rainbows on the big bike forum. If this is the thanks I can look forward to when I post up my Dyno findings I might better skip it. If the results are good I'll be called out and somehow whatever happened is just photoshop or the Dyno is too kind or it was really a Ducati or... And if the results suck I don't know what I'm doing and I'm either lying or just plain retarded. You guys need to take a swig off my flask...it's Buellaid...but it'll make you forget who you were going to piss on and piss on yourself instead... | ||
| Justa4banger |
OK, I have a dyno in my garage, and using the new EBR ECM, I made 11ty million HP on an XB9 with one plug pulled and running on olive oil. There. Now your information is wrong. Or maybe there is just more investigation to do, and some better test procedures needed. Like not taking the O2 sensor out of the exhaust and dangling it off the side of the bike for starters. Wow, do you even own a 1125? Obviously my testing procedure, though not optimal, was not incorrect, i re-ran the test with your "Touch by the hand of chuck norris" O2 sensor and its still messed up, now what? Obviously since you have no useful information to add, please refrain from showing your ass to the community. thank you} | ||
| 1203_raptor |
I'll take a swig of that Buellaid now, please. | ||
| Keef |
I have a nice big block of cheese here to go with the winers  | ||
| Mountainstorm |
MMM I love cheese-cover weiners. *passes flask to Raptor* *Pries flask away from Keef* | ||
| Keef |
pulls hand gun and shots mountainstorm in the knee ,pistol whips Raptor takes flask back from Raptor, shooting him in the knee and then turning back to Mountainstorm and putting another cap in his other knee and then loading both their 1125's into back of truck and driving away happy and weavy..hic... ROFLMAO | ||
| Keef |
 | ||
| Reepicheep |
My point was simply that your assertion that the fact that you posted something on the internet made it correct was a stupid statement. Anyone can post anything on the internet. Mountainstorm, if you post a dyno and explore the results, you have nothing to fear. If you appear here with an obviously flawed setup, communicate in a way that is anything but clear and objective, claim to understand things that contradict with other things you claim to understand, and make a blanket statement like "EBR racing is run by idiots" when there have been others using the same products with great success, then yes, you will likely catch some flack. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
No worries there Reep I support Erik Buell and his vision. I just don't expect everything to work perfectly...it never does. And I don't kill the messenger even if I don't like the message. | ||
| Justa4banger |
unecessary comment on my part (Message edited by justa4banger on February 14, 2010) | ||
| Court |
| ||
| Justa4banger |
unecessary comment on my part (Message edited by justa4banger on February 14, 2010) | ||
| Dannybuell |
J4B I think that was an apology. dannybuell | ||
| Highscore |
Hot air is less dense than cool air. There is less oxygen in, so also less fuel can be burnt by hot air. The ECM reacts to hot air by shorting its injector pulse width to throttle down the fuel supply. Testing the 1125 on the dyno needs some care because of the danger to feed the engine with air heated artificially by the radiators:   This runs show the same, bone stock CR during a dyno session. The high output numbers are the result of cool air at the engine´s air intake below the steering rack, the deep numbers show, what happens, if the cooler ventilators left and right at the radiators are working. With cool air the engine is cranking out +130 WHP at the Dynojet, with hot air it is struggling around at approx. 125, and it is even possible to repeat this poor HP-number on the dyno. But nevertheless this situation is not representative. No engine shows good performance when operated with an desert-like air at the intake. Additionally the sensor element, informing the ECM about ambient temperature, is located at the end of the airbox´ intake funnel at this "hot spot" below the steering rack. This sensor responses not really fast, there is some delay until the ECM is informed about the real actual temperature at the intake. This misinformation may cause an artificial lean situation because the ECM is sensing a false temperature reading. The poor HP-numbers of the ECM-test in this thread, all well down under the 130-margin, show me, obviously these dyno runs have been compromised by said "hot-air-problem" too. And it looks like as the stock ECM is handling this trouble better than the EBR-unit. But this is only valid for this abnormal test situation on a dyno. This tells nothing about the performance of the EBR-ECM in the real world. | ||
| Moosestang |
Highscore, have you tried relocated the ambient temp sensor? |
