| Author | Message | ||
     Timbo |
This is a picture of it on the bike with hose installed.  | ||
| Timbo |
Lastly, Here is a pic from the side/rear.  I wanted this to be clean and out of sight but also easy to access for cleaning. I'm happy with the result. Total cost, five bucks and change. Jody (I think) asked why I didn't use a filter. I don't really see a need for a filter in this location. Based on the fact that the end of the hose is not exposed to the elements and I don't believe there is enough suction pressure to pull anything that might get in the can back uphill the length of the tube all the way to the motor. | ||
| Noface |
Here's how I finally ended up installing the filter on my breather set-up. I had hoped to put the filter out at the end of the tail section next to the tail light, but there's not enough room there as the filter I have is to big.  Timbo, thanks for the follow-up on the filter question. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Just to add to the list of anectdotal observations on the breather / pukage thing. My 2000 cyclone would generate a teaspoon or so of grey slimey stuff after every couple hundred miles. No big deal, easy to drain from my home brew catch tube. I had to replace a cam, which meant that i had remove and replace the rocker box gaskets. F&S Harley in Dayton OH (God Bless 'em) had everything in stock and sold me the gasket kit, which included the new metal lower gaskets and new umbrella valves. While I had it apart, I carefully and scientifically machined the oil drain hole and the umbrella valve post hole. (That means I grabbed the nearest phillips head screwdriver of about the right size and spun it in the hole a few times). Basically, I just deburred a pretty rough casting. I did not expect much from this, I was in the middle of reassembly and did not want to clean up and go back in the house and log back on here for "the cure". Well, low and behold, after a couple hundred miles with the new assembly, All I get is a dribble of perfectly clean water out of my catch tube. Just a few drops, not a hint of oil in it. It is too early to be sure about cause and effect, but it is worth mentioning. If you have the rocker boxes apart, debur all the holes for the umbrella valves and the oil drainback. Also, the factory rocker box lower was not a sandwich of metal and silicone like I expected, it was rather a stamped metal part that was just shaped. Seems to work OK though, I guess time will tell. Bill | ||
| Bluzm2 |
As a follow on to Bill's post. I have now installed Blast rocker covers on both front and rear cylinders. The front was done last fall, the rear this past weekend. I blocked off the standard breather ports with solid ss bolts. The engine now breaths through the top of the rocker boxes via PCV type valves. Results so far are mixed to good. I am getting a bit of the tan "mung" coming out the rear but it appears to be mostly moisture. The weather has been cool here so that's to be expected. Not as much as before with the standard setup and much less oily type drool. I may wind up fabing up a catch can anyway. Lots of options on placement when the main breather line runs along the top of the frame. I'll post pics of the RB replacement if anyone is interested. Be patient though as my digi camara is broken (permanently, I dropped it...) Brad | ||
| Nemo |
FYI Acetone will remove the white writing from fuel lines. Makes the catch can plumbing look much better. | ||
| Hardwired |
Hello to all. lots of info, lots of very good work. One question though, in other forms of racing i.e. drag racing it is common practice to weld a small pipe with a 45 deg cut into the headers so that the exhaust would pull a negative pressure on the crankcase, this would then be routed to the top of the catch can so that the vapor would be drawn off quickly but the big chunks would stay in the can. Has anyone tried this? Thoughts? Scott | ||
| Blake |
Nallin Racing ran their world champion drag bike S1W with the breather routed directly to the header. Brian cautioned strongly that for the street, having oil mist being run through your exhaust was not a good idea. He cautioned that it can eventually make a real mess of the muffler and tailpipe. Maybe putting a catch can with some type of oil mist entrapment media in the path would help alleviate that concern. Maybe we can get Aaron to run a test. ![:]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) (Actually I think he already did, and found that even applying a vacuum to the crankcase breather did not yield any benefit. See his tests in the Knowledge Vault: Dyno Test Results - Breather Check Valves topic.  | ||
| Firemanjim |
On drag cars(mind you this was in 70's I was doing this) we had system called Vac-U-Pan-- used those pipes welded in to header collector at 45 degree angle facing backward with flow and then had a back pressure/one way valve screwed on(can't remember where we sourced these from,but I think it was from smog system gulp valve)then routed hose up to both valve covers to an air/oil separator.This was stolen from the valve cover smog system/pcv system off an Oldsmobile.I actually had instructions to this set-up last time I cleaned out my tool boxes.The idea was to use exhaust flow to create a negative pressure in crankcase.Sort of the opposite of what you are talking about.Was not to route oil fumes to exhaust. | ||
| Hardwired |
Yes I did see that. I was thinking more along the lines of keeping the lines clear and pulling out as much of the water vapor that one could. As many have pointed out, they get mostly water with just a hint of oil. I would not use this on an engine that had bad seals/rings...unless you wanted to fog the the bikes behind. But with a dry sump there should not be a great deal of oil mist hanging around the inner workings, what one gets after a long run in a humid climate is a fair amount of water vapor condensing on the inside of the case. water=bad-oil=good Scott | ||
| Sickquad |
Can someone explain to me or point me in the direction of a source which explains why I need cylinder head breathers? Is it because of the pressure which builds while the engine is running? Also, I think the breather setup going into my air cleaner on the pro series intake sucks. Can I plug the hole in the bake of my air cleaner and run the breathers out to the atmosphere? Are there any negative reactions to this? Thanks Chris | ||
| Ara |
Well, breathers are certainly not optional. They're part of the basic design of the engine. Plug your breather ports and you'll blow base gaskets, head gaskets, or both. You need them because the volume of the crankase changes dramatically with crank rotation. As the pistons rise in the cylinders you get a partial vacuum - only partial because blowby past the rings is a one-way affair. As the pistons fall the crankcase pressurizes. With that pressure augmented by blowby, the pressure needs somewhere to go. As designed, it flows up the pushrod tubes, goes through the umbrella valves, and exits through the breather ports. This is simplified, of course, but that's it in a nutshell. | ||
| Awprior |
Can someone point me in the general direction of some breather bolts that aren't the HD 2 piece 'banjo bolt' setup? I've seen a few pics of ones with a 90 degree built it. I'm talking about the ones that screw directly into the head. Thanks | ||
| Josh_ |
AW, Buell has ones that are basically a hollow bolt (they came stock on my 99 S3T) but I like to keep the breather lines close to the head. Look here for a Mikuni setup that looks pretty good. | ||
| Ara |
Buell has straight and 90 degree breather bolts. The're available separately, and are pretty cheap. | ||
| Sickquad |
So, can I take my breather hoses and route them somewhere else besides into the back of my air cleaner. I think they are routed there for smog reasons, but I'm not sure. Can I route them to maybe a small air filter somewhere? What happens if they do not go back into my air filter? Chris | ||
| Josh_ |
What happens? Your bike runs better. | ||
| Sickquad |
I just do not like the way the hose seals into the back of my air cleaner. Seems like a good way to run lean to me. If it will run better that's just a bonus. But why will it run better? Is the oily air coming from the breather bad for combustion? Chris | ||
| Ara |
Sick, now is when you go back to the arcives of this section of BadWeb and look at all the photos and narrative descriptions of the various solutions to The Breather Problem that are here. There's an awful lot of wisdom and experience at your disposal. | ||
| Sickquad |
Thanks, Ara. I'm new to the board. Just looked through the archives. Lots of ideas and valuable information. Going to fabricate something nice, on company time of course. | ||
| Buell_brener |
Hello, I have installed a Force Air Intake on my 2002 X1. I am wondering if I need to do anything besides just install and drive (like tune etc.) seems like the DDFI should take care of everything? Any experiances or helpfull suggestions are appreciated. P.S What does the Air sensor do? Regards, Jim | ||
| Josh_ |
No tuning, tho a RaceECM would be nice (along with a TPS reset for the new ECM) Reports to the ECM the temp of the air heading into the intake. | ||
| Bomber |
Brenner I ride a carb-equipped Buell, but if my understanding of the many posts here is right, you do not need to get your TPS reset. edited by blake on June 09, 2003 | ||
| Blake |
Brenner, A TPS reset? Only if you actually to adjust the throttle position sensor. If you don't touch it, its calibration should be okay, assuming it was okay prior to installing the Force intake. Now I have to guess...  The intake airflow sensor either tells the ECM intake air temperature or ....? In any case, you definitely need it. Force sells their intake in a version specifically for the EFI Buells. Hopefully that is the version you received. | ||
| Buell_brener |
Josh, Bomber, and Blake Thanks for the replys. The bike seems to run well so I didn't think I needed to do anything else. The Airsensor appears to be a thermocouple and I did install it per the directions from Force. As another question has anyone used a temp guage on their Buell to see if the removal of the air ducting causes the rear cylinder run hotter? I used a crude set up with a fan and airspeed indicator t see if the ducting had much effect. It did very little at slow speeds 20 mph and below to force an real air onto the rear cylinder. Regards | ||
| Good_boy |
Noface : Big motorcycle shop air filters are good, in order to put the fileter in the most tail section of your bike, use the force... What uses air filters, small air filters ? Radio controlled cars. $5. Small. Efficient. Try it. Worth it. Iuse a filter for a 1/10th scale gas model, maybe a 1/8th model size would suit you better (foam for most 1/10th, paper / foam / fabric for some 1/8th. Try it : small, cheap and efficient. All that I want. Well, My M2 is big, expensive and efficient if you care for some sweat... | ||
| Mbsween |
Hey All, Trying this one again (Blake, if this isn't the right place tell me where to move to) I made it through one day of the Northeast Tour. The bike started puking again, this time I have some data. When I add engine oil, it looks like it drains into the primary and then the primary vents it to the rear wheel. It seems like if I let the engine oil get low enough (just past the dipstick when fully inserted), then it stops. But if I fill the oil to 1/2 way on the dipstick, the DEC is calling me an environmental hazard. (the X1 Valdez.....) I rode it for about 1000 miles like this, I guessing that if engine oil makes it to the primary, then trans fluid must be heading into the engine, true? Consequences? Also, it looks like the engine is venting everywhere, airfilter (I have the head breathers running into a catch can), pushrod tubes, shifter shaft. Does this look like all the same problem? What should I be telling the guys at the shop? Also what should I be expecting them to ask? I'm going to try Southern Tier Buell in Binghampton, NY, anyone like/dislike them? Thanks Matt Oh yeah, how do you get that much oil off the bike?      | ||
| Ccryder |
Matt It's time to replace the crank-primary seal! Mark | ||
| Blake |
Yep, the seal around your crankshaft needs replaced. Not a big ticket item. Any shop that is competent working on Harleys can handle the job. To remove oil?... Soap and water. Though many cringe at the notion, I pressure wash my bike a couple times a year when it gets really good and filthy, like after riding through the rain for a couple hours. Just avoid blasting the wheel bearings and electrics. What you need to ask yourself though is why did the seal fail. Your catch can rig may be overly restrictive causing pressure to build in the crankcase. That along with significant blow-by would tend to blow out the seal. You might ask the shop to perform compression and leakdown tests to ascertain the health of your top end. If you need a rehone and ring job, it's well worth the expense. Even an overbore and new pistons/rings ain't too bad a hit considering the benefits of a well sealing combustion chamber versus one with excessive leakdown and/or poor compression. Let us know what you find. | ||
| Mbsween |
Blake, Wow, I didn't realize there could be that much pressure from the head breathers. I have the Yodude puke pipe. Its about 8" long and has a small filter on the top. Its about 95% water when I drain it, the rest is oil/water spooge. If I forget to empty the can, it leaks out the, filter. It does seem to fill up pretty quickly. Good news is the bikes under warranty, so I should be okay there. Is this relatively easy to do (replacing the seal). I read on the X1 files site that you need a special tool tho. whats a ballpark for a top end job. I wondering whats the cost of that versus something from Nallin. Just a thought Thanks for the input, I should have details by Wednesday Matt |
