| Author | Message | ||
     Richieg150 |
My brother has a 98 sportster that he has Buellafied with Buell heads,cylinders,and pistons.I convinced him to buy a Force exhaust for it,as it has make my Buell really roll!The first exhaust they sent him was the wrong one,it just wouldnt fit.Force told him that it was the right exhaust,it wasnt,to make a long story short they reluctantly sent him another after receiving the one he had.The one they sent bolted right up.We went on a 700 mile round trip ride,when we got back he noticed that his exhaust had broke above the weld where it goes into the collector.He called Force,they said they had never had that problem,ya right ok.He boxed the exhaust up,took it to UPS,had it weighed at 13 pounds,insured it,paid the postage and they took it away.Force called him after they received his package,told him it looked like someone had run over the megaphone,and the rest of the exhaust wasnt in the box.They weighed the megaphone,it weighed 6 pounds.He can prove the package he sent weighed 13 pounds by the postage,so somewhere the package lost 7 pounds,the rest of the exhaust!So,Force said it was UPS's problem,they will have to investigate to see what happened,and when they get to the bottom of it,dont bother trying to buy another exhaust from them,because he can,QOUTE " Take your business elsewhere,"UNQUOTE.Its not his fault he was sent a wrong exhaust in the first place,not his fault it broke above the weld,and not his fault it got messed up and half of it was stolen or lost in shipment.I guess Force is following suit with other exhaust manufacturers,we want your money,but no problems!Guys who are recommending the Force exhaust,should find out how they deal with problems with their exhaust!The gal we talked to on the phone seemed willing to help,then she put him in touch with the owner and he's the one that acted like an asshole about it,asking him what type of scam he was trying to pull!Hey,Force,the exhaust he had,was shitty and it broke!He sent you the exhaust UPS,sometning happened to it in the mail period!Sounds like a great guy,the owner of Force........NOT! | ||
| Richieg150 |
The asshole my brother talked to at Force was named John. | ||
| Sickquad |
Maybe notification of this bad press which Force is getting will change there mind. Send them this website link. It worked for me when I got a bent swingarm in the mail for my quad. They refused to do anything about it until I made a big deal and started to tell others. Then they sent me the chrome plated version to replace my bent one. | ||
| Dynarider |
Have heard of similar deals with John involving his products. He was dropped as a sponsor of 1 website for such practices. Seems real tempermental, if you catch him on a good day then its no problem, but look out for the bad days. Hopefully the Nallins have a better working relationship with him than others do. BTW, Bubs has a similar policy. Sell you the product but if it doesnt fit right or breaks due to shoddy workmanship, tuff luck. | ||
| Hootowl |
Cough-D&D-Cough | ||
| Blake |
You know, every time I've ever talked to Johnny I come away all pumped up and enthused. He's a REAL passionate guy when it comes to Buells. Sounds like he may need to mellow out wrt customer service. Richie, I hope your brother can work things out in a professional manner. If not, there's always small claims court. | ||
| Sgtbuell |
What Hootowl said. I myself almost got a Force before talking to dyna and spidey about it over at sport twin, and thank god I went with the D&D. Hey dyna heard the same thing about Bubs from the <font size="+1">Buell</font> tech at Tampa H-D, said they were complete shit for the <font size="+1">Buell</font>s. (Message edited by Sgtbuell on May 28, 2003, %time) | ||
| Dynarider |
The Bubs for the Harleys arent very good either. Poor fit, cheap chroming, & absolutley no customer support. For Harleys there are 2 brands of pipes to avoid, Bubs & Samsons. Samsons are absolutley the cheapest made pipes on the market, however the customer support is pretty good & when the pipes break..notice its not if they break..they will replace them. I know of several dealers around the country who will not carry or sell the Bubs line due to all the problems. The D&D is a great choice, well built unit that appears as if it will stand up to the test of time. Little pricey, but no more so than the force. | ||
| Paroyboy |
I had Samsons on my FLHTC and loved them. Granted, they were only slip-ons but they sounded great and the chrome was flawless. (I know my chrome!) I was told to stay away from BUB's, Bartels and Jardine but never heard anything bad about Samsons. | ||
| Dynarider |
The slipons are not nearly as bad as the headpipes. The slipons dont have to deal with as much heat as the headpipes do. I personally had to return 2 sets of samson streetsweeper pipes. The first set the front pipe split completely in 2 where it it steps up from 1 3/4" to 2 1/4". I called samson & they said send em on back. The next set I returned because the chrome was so thin I could actually see the base coat of copper. Several other folks I know..ie more than 4..have also had similar issues with samsons. None of us tho have baggers so we all had the full systems. | ||
| Marks3tbillet |
Had a set of Samsons on my FLHT and one of them rusted after 1000 miles. The chrome peeled off, about 1 inch diameter. They did send me a new one, no questions asked, but pretty disappointed that it happened. | ||
| Skully |
I'm real happy with my D&D XB muffler. See XB muffler thread in XB section for dyno charts from my bike, etc. The mid-range pulls my arms out of the socket! Keith (Message edited by skully on May 29, 2003, %time) | ||
| Blake |
Dyna, More negative posts? Do you not know the meaning of "negative"? | ||
| Dynarider |
Blake, perhaps I should tell them that the Bubs & samsons are just great?? Notice I did give kudos to D&D? Perhaps you could add something constructive to this thread as I have? Not all products are fantastic & not all manufacturers are producing a quality product. By alerting some of the badwebbers as to who to watch out for, that is performing a service that is the same as letting them know which dealers are good & which suck. Now what were you saying?? | ||
| M2me |
It seems like D&D is the only exhaust manufacturer that I haven't heard negative stuff about it. Except that they're pretty loud and even that's not a negative for all people. I would like to get a D&D slip on but I've never heard one on a Buell. Most Buells seem to have Vance & Hines, which I think sound great. But I've heard negative stuff about them too. That they break and fall apart. Is that still true or have Vance & Hines improved lately? | ||
| Anonymous |
I wouldn't run any other pipe. The Force Streetfighter is the best performing pipe made for the carbureted <font size="+1">Buell</font>s. Spread the word-When mounting a Force pipe, one should spend an extra 20 or 30 minutes making sure that the pipe is mounted without being in a bind. It might take a while, but that is what it takes. Use shims or whatever. Cracks in Force pipes can be welded using Silicon Bronze welding rods by your local Hot Rod or IndyHarley shop. This only costs about 20 bucks. Mount them carefully and you have the meanest sounding and best torque making pipe out there. I don't want to argue, so I am posting anonymous today. PS I am not affiliated with Force. Chadley, Anonymous posting without a valid reason, meaning a much better reason than yours, is not permitted. Thank you for understanding. Don't be afraid of honest debate. Besides, posting as anonymous won't save you from anyone's counterpoints. edited by blake on May 30, 2003 | ||
| Richieg150 |
I had a Vance and Hines slip-on on my 2000 M2.The first sliop-on broke at the front mount,at less than 30 days.They sent me another slip-on with an improved front mount and I was told dont ask for any more pipes.They will only replace the pipe 1 time,if their guarantee says 90 days.So,you may never get a Vance and Hines slip-on to last the 90 day warranty,youre just out of luck.This slip-on has never broke on the front mount,but has broke twice at the rear mount!My suggestion is not to buy the Vance and Hines slip-on,they wont back their product.And speaking about backing their product,dont buy a Force,John at Force wont back their exhausts either.There seems to be a problem with some exhaust manufacturers about actually backing their products,they make the claims of backing it up,and when its time to warranty the pipes--YOURE SCREWED,just ask Vance and Hines or Force about their warranty's!They are not worth the paper they are printed on! | ||
| Dynarider |
Anon, Force may well be the best performing pipe for the carbed Buells,I know I have seen the dynos that back it up but for the $$$ it costs it should do what it claims to. Now if they could only get their quality to back up the performance they would have a great product. It seems some folks have no issues with Force pipes & others have all kinds of hassles. It shouldnt take a PHD to mount a damn pipe. V&H has had quality issues from day 1 with their units. I threw a white bros slipon on my X1 & literally it took me 15 minutes tops to remove the old one & mount the new one. Absolutley no problems at all with that muffler & thats 11,000 miles of wheelies, stoppies, track days, etc. I was going to go with a V&H until I read about all of the quality issues & with mufflers dropping off & causing bikes to polevault. That may not be a common occurence but even 1 instance like that is way to many in my opinion. | ||
| Richieg150 |
anonymous,Force may have the best pipe per dyno performance,but their customer service and warranty SUCKS!Can I make the any clearer it SUCKS!The gal who does the warranty work seems actually helpful,my front mount on my pipe broke and she didnt hesitate sending me another front mount,new and improved version.But if you read the starting thread on this discussion,you will see John who works at force is an ASSHOLE his customer relations skills are not an asset to Force.Im hoping others will read what we have went thru and not buy FORCE EXHAUST,if your pipe ever breaks,god forbid,good luck getting it replaced,and if they send you a wrong pipe because of their incompitence,they take it out on you,the customer!!Thats the kind of treatment we Buell riders really want........NOT.The only way to get these guys to get better and change is to hit their wallets! | ||
| Bads1 |
My brother has Samsons on his Road King,no blueing.peeling cracking,nothing they look great and sound nice and deep.  <font size="-2"><i>edited by bads1 on May 29, 2003)</i></font> | ||
| Dynarider |
Richie, I have 2 examples of companies with excellent customer service. Kuryakn & YoDude. If you have any issues with their product they will send you a new one..often an improved version..for free. And you dont have to return the old part either. Someone on ATC had an issue with a YoDude intake & someone who either works at YoDude or maybe it was the owner read the post & responded in an extremely positive fashion within minutes. I have excellent responses from Kuryakn as a large number of folks whom I know. Had the old style hypercharger & had some minor issues with it. They sent me a brand new upgraded hypercharger free of charge. Thats like a $250 air cleaner they simply gave me in an effort to keep a cutomer happy. And it worked.As a result of their customer support I ordered my led turn signals & headlight bucket along with several other parts when I rebuilt my Dyna. That company has a customer for life with me. Thats the kinda company people want to do business with, not some cocky BS comapny that doesnt care about its customers or calls them liars. | ||
| Sgtbuell |
M2me When I went to pick up my bike after getting the D&D pipe and other goodies put on my M2, the Buell tech came up to me right off and couldn't stop going on about the D&D. He compared the sound of the pipe to a small block Chevy. | ||
| Skully |
M2me - I have an audio/video clip of my XB on the dyno being flogged with the D&D muffler. I would be glad to send you a copy if you are interested. Keith | ||
| Hootowl |
For those that have not seen the D&D and the way it mounts on tubers... http://www.schemp.net/dd/ | ||
| Daves |
Skully, I'd like a copy of that sound clip! Send it to dave@iowaharley.com Thanks! | ||
| Skully |
Dave, Check your email! Keith | ||
| Daves |
It's not there? Did you send it to the dave@iowaharley.com one? | ||
| Coppertop |
Skully, Can you please send a copy of that clip to me as well? Was waiting for Blake to post the copy...but it seems that he has been pretty busy updating the board. Thanks Chris | ||
| Skully |
Chris, Does your hotmail have a file size limitation? It won't let me send it to you. Do you have another email account? Keith edited by skully on May 30, 2003 | ||
| Sickquad |
Skully, can I see the video also? mick@coe.neu.edu Thanks Chris | ||
| Careyj |
Sorry to hear about your problems with FORCE Richie, Johnny Lightning is the owner of Force and a very good friend of mine and always took care of me before we were friends, heck my broken Force pipe is what made us friends!! He's had a hell of a time with broken exhausts and he always is improving them, he gets ALOT of calls on it and you most likely caught him on a bad day. If you would of dealt with that nice lady (Georgia) you would have had a new pipe instead of "I want to talk to the owner" attitude, she handles all warranty issues. Just my opinion. (Opinions are like assh*les, everyone has one) | ||
| M2me |
Skully, Send it to me too! Thanks! jkoehler@goldengate.net | ||
| Richieg150 |
Careyj,I talked to Georgia and she was very nice and polite.I talked to her about my front mount breaking and she didnt hesitate to say she would sent me one,she said I should get the mount by Thursday........Im still waiting.My brother talked to Georgia,who seemed ok,and Johnny jumped into the picture.Johnny lightning is the one who acted like an asshole.I dont want to hear about a bad day.....ect.He was very unprofessional,throwing unwarranted accusations,and a real jerk!If thats the kind of customer service Johnny shows I can only hope others read how he is and wont buy his product!Like I said,treatment like that was way out of line and needs to be dealt with!The best way to deal with jerks like Johnny is in their wallets.Maybe ,you being his friend,you can ask him why he's such an asshole to customers?Then you can tell him,because of his attitude,I will do all I can to promote ANY EXHAUST but his!I know of one fellow Buell rider who after seeing how we are being treated will NOT be buying a FORCE EXHAUST.I only hope others will follow suit. | ||
| Jasonblue |
Skully I'll take a copy too plz. chrisjay@ev1.net | ||
| Skully |
Chris, John, and Jason, Check your email!  Keith | ||
| Bads1 |
Skully can you do one more to me??? | ||
| Keef |
With all this debate I guess it is time to hear it from "the horses mouth" so to speak..I am the one that this debate is about. I bought my force pipe from a local dealer here in town and when I tried to install it it bolted to the heads fine but at the megaphone the bracket was about 4 inches from the mounting bracket on the bike (1998 sportster S model)the mounting bracket on the frame was original.I at that time called force and talked to Georgia who was helpful she said I must have a rarish R model sportster, which I know now is a 883 sportster with a factory 2-1 exhaust, it was decided that to save me time and hassle they would send me the other pipe and send out a UPS pickup for the other pipe.After another week I got the other pipe , installed it and found myself in the same boat again the mounting bracket was now made with a bend in it ,I called again and talked to Georgia she put me on hold and I guess talked to John who then talked to me and told me then just send it back and they would refund me my money.I said I really wanted to use the pipe so I talked with Georgia again and said I would see what I could do about making it work.I then by mere luck discovered when I went to the local H-D store to get exhaust seals again a newish 883 sportster in the lot with 2-1's on it and a different mounting bracket. I did a little eye ball measuring and decided that was the bracket I in fact needed for the force pipe I now had.I then ordered the mounting bracket from H-D that cost me an extra 68.00 with tax.The new pipe they had sent me had NO hardware with it and no red rubber vibration dampner but Georgia sent that stuff to me. When after another week of waiting I had a bracket and the hardware I needed I mounted the pipe, it still didn't line up totally on the money but I made a short bracket and got it mounted so there was no strain on the exhaust. YES it sounded good ,loud, but good I then ordered and got the baffle for it to tone the noise some and to increase the back pressure some and I was very happy with the exhaust at the time. I went on road trip of about 360 miles and rode the bike another 3-4 hundred miles or then went on another road trip of about 720 or so, about 30-40 miles from home my bike seemed to loose power and sounded funny was making a huffing sound I figured I was having some type of problem at the time but everything seemed ok other than power loss. About 5 miles from home the noise quit but power was still down.I got home and as I unloaded the bike I saw the exhaust was broken off where the two pipes are welded into the primary section of the megaphone.I called force the next day and Georgia told me to send it back and they would look at it..I took the original shipping box and pipe to work and had the pipe shipped back to force.The box weighed in at 13 pounds when UPS picked it up.I watched it's travel with ups tracking and when I saw it had arrived at force I called expecting to be told yep it's broke we are sending you another pipe..WOW how wrong that turned out to be,I was asked where the rest of the pipe was and I was confused at that point,that is when John got in the picture I was told the megaphone was oblong and had been run over and flattened I of course said ,what??, and was told all that was in the box was the megaphone and asked what I was trying to pull here ,I was flabbergaust as I was not trying to pull anything I was just wanting a one piece exhaust system again, John got really huffy and said he would NOT sell or send me a exhaust and to go buy someone elses pipe that they would give me back my money for everything I had bought from them and where did I buy the first pipe so I told him and he wanting their phone number and I said ok I then looked it up and before I could give it to him he said call back and give to one of the"girls" and hung the phone up..I called right back and gave Georgia the number and spoke to her for a few minutes and was told John believed I was pulling some sort of scam..After getting off the phone I talked to our shipping manager he called Georgia and it was discovered the box they received only weighed 7 pounds.The pipes are light so that would be about right.So now I have I have my old drag pipes back on the bike I have a force pipe baffle and a 883 sportster exhaust bracket I can't use. We have contacted UPS and even though it was fully insured they are not being to helpful at this point,I was told it would take 2-3 months minimum if the decided to issue a payment on the lost items..so thats the story guys |
