| Author | Message | ||
     Jim_sb |
There's a little more to this "ours vs. theirs" thread than horsepower. I hooked up and rode with a couple guys from Santa Barbara Sunday morning. One had a Ducati 900 Supersport (sans chicken strips) and the other had a Honda Superhawk with modest chicken strips. We went up into the mountains. Both brand "x" bikes were quite a bit faster than my stock S2 in the straights. No comparison whatsoever. All were V-twins I believe. Somehow I managed to keep up with Mr. Duc, though, as the Superhawk fell behind.  At any legal speed the Buells do just fine. The newest Buells much more so than my S2. I noticed a few things though..... 1. These guys could only go 100 miles or so on a 4 gallon tank. Then they were searching for fuel. Which isn't easy to find up in the mountains. Plan ahead. 2. The Honda rider complained of bun burn after an hour or so. I can easily do 450 miles in the twisties on my S2 with stock seat. 3. They were in awe of the 45 mpg I get with my S2 (which I think is too low). 4. Whether it was due to sore buns or sore back or sore wrists I can't say. But these guys were stopping every 40 - 50 miles for a break. My friends and I usually ride for nearly a full tank of gas between stops - something in the 175 - 180 mile range. There are many factors which go into bike ownership. Horsepower is only one. Would I have enjoyed more power to keep up with those guys in the straights? Sure. Do I need it? No. I've got a bike that gives reasonable performance, mileage, is nicely faired and quite comfy. She handles nicely too... And can accept hard bags. Plus, when you're riding with guys with faster bikes you just have to ride a little smarter. Or a little better. The Buell received some nice compliments at the rest stops, too. I wouldn't trade my S2 straight up for either of the brand "x" bikes. YMMV. | ||
| Eeeeek |
See, it's pretty obvious I'm not in Marketing or Accounting. I just know that I am an ex-Buell owner. I will probably pick up an S1W as a second bike when money permits. The S1W is what got me into Buell in the first place and I see it as timeless. Hell, Chop and I were talking and we both agreed that we'd race Firebolts if the costs were reasonable. The rules in club level roadracing are pretty kind to the lil' bolts and I think it would be a lot of fun. Vik | ||
| Eeeeek |
mikej: That, in my opinion, is a poor argument. I spent 99.99% of the time on my CBR954 well under 100 mph. I use the power to make street riding easier. 4th gear take sme from about 5 mph to 100+++, so I can go into the canyons and forget about shifting. I can just work on trying to ride smoothly and know that if I need it, I have gobs of power in reserve, on demand and amazing brakes in case I need them, too. Add to that I no longer scrape hard parts and I'm in heaven. | ||
| Aaron |
See, Vik, we're not so far apart, you like street fighters too! You just also happen to like race reps. Oh well, there's no accounting for taste I happen to like Sport-tourers, too. Like Jim, I have an affection for my S2. There's just something about that bike that makes me gravitate toward it when I choose which bike to ride. It sure as hell ain't the fastest bike I own, but it's still my first choice. It's just a pleasant bike to ride. Richard Nallin recently sold his 'busa and bought an XB9R. Someone else who doesn't put horsepower first, go figure. | ||
| Ray_maines |
I want it all! I want at least 45mpg, at least 175 mile range, 110 RWHP, super sharp handleing, and a comfortable ride. Is that asking to mucking fuch? I mean really. Aaron, while you're on the line: If you built and tuned a M2 at 6,000 feet, would it run properly in Tacoma, WA., basicly sea level? How can we make this work? | ||
| Aaron |
Nah, it'd run like crap. Unless you took 60 seconds and $3 and changed the main jet | ||
| Buelliedan |
Grndskpr, You are the one skewing the facts. The 40-50 y/o cruiser rider is not the most accident prone category, it is the 20 something y/o sportbike rider. the cruiser riders are the fastest growing segment of accidents however. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Just saw that the Euro was up to $1.19 us now... So can those of you 'cross the pond pick up XB's at (effectively) 20% off now? Or do the importers just pocket the difference? Or do extra charges like shipping bring the price back up? Just wondering... | ||
| Blake |
Paul, I rode my S-3 for an hour the other day and had arm pump like I'd done three motos on the MX bike. Try raising your S3's front forks just 1/4" (lowering front end 1/4" . The difference in handling is amazing. Be careful though, lowering the front end too much can lead to instability (head shake). The GSXR1000 is a great machine and a dominant force on the track, but I don't see how it is head and shoulders above the XB9's in "build quality, design quality, and function." It is head and shoulders above the Buells in HP and peak speed and the amount of plastic shrouding it. | ||
| Snail |
Blake, I'm dumb ignorant when it comes to the XB9, never having seen one. Thats why I said of Buells I have ridden or seen, or something like that. But really, check out the diamond coated fork tubes on the Gix, check out the radial brakes. Sure the gas is in a tank, and the oil in the crankcase, but don't doubt for a moment that Suzuki is innovative. The '03 Gix is the finest sport bike I have ever seen or ridden, bar none. Strait out of the box, no tweaking or mods, ( I did add a Yosh pipe so I could sound cool). The handling of the S-3 isn't bad, but the vibration kills me. I have carpal tunnel from years of running power saws and working crab gear in freezing cold weather. The Gix is velvet smooth, like Nallin might say, a drill motor. Paul | ||
| Grndskpr |
Grndskpr, You are the one skewing the facts. The 40-50 y/o cruiser rider is not the most accident prone category, it is the 20 something y/o sportbike rider. the cruiser riders are the fastest growing segment of accidents however. Dan, tell it to the VP of HD who got on stage in front of 300 people in Oakbrook IL, at the last POT training sestion, tell him he is wrong, i am more or less passing along info that he presented as fact, just ask BrentX1, or anybody else who was there, notice the no drinking guildlines in your new HOG book????? Roger | ||
| Grndskpr |
Hey Dan since i am guessing you have an inside line on the stats, how about i rephrase it to say"most fatalities" because in reality i can replace a bike Roger | ||
| Blake |
I fully expect you will let me take the GXSR1000 next time I'm up your way then. I've not ridden one yet. I hate vibrating handlebars. | ||
| Mikeyp |
Buells suck!  See, it's all an illusion really. Nobody wants to hear that they're bikes suck. That's why you Buell guys hate the racer boy wannabe's. It's disheartening to see the brand bashing, and the generalization of all the racer rep guys. Me, i like anything that burns dinosauer juice, and has two wheels. I still ride my Buell, along with my RC-51. What do i enjoy more? Depends? You wear differnt shoes for differnt things. I wouldn't wear my workboots to go running. For stoplight to stoplight NYC terrorizing, my S1W is the tits. But it sucks, yes SUCKS riding the backroads. The damn thing feels like there's a hinge in the middle of it,the brakes are mediocre at best, and the gearing is a joke. It just feels like the motors so stressed running around 100mph. My RC does everthing i wish my Buell did, that's why i bought it. probably the best purchase i ever made. If my Buell was my only bike, i'd friggin burn it for the insurance money. It's amazing to read the posts Rocket man has posted. Rocket, your goddamned right Buells should be doing a buck-fifty by now. But we know how the company works. Shit, it took them 100 years to come up with 1985 technology (read V-ROD). Guess we might have to wait another 100 yrs to get GSXR 1000 technology. BTW Court, How's Astroia? I went to that job for one day, and i asked to be laid off if Couzzo couldn't find me something closer to home. It took me 3 1\2 hours to get there. Hear the latest on Vitale's kid? I could fill you in on the latest. I spent alot of time with him coming up through the appreticeship. Man,i got stories. Tell my cousin Charlie i said hello when you see him. later... | ||
| Davegess |
Man of man, jumping on Buell 'cause they havn't gone mass market enough. Yipes. They will make something like 250 times more bikes than they did 10 years ago and folks say Buell doesn't know what they are doing!!! You guys are tough! Let Buell get to the 30000 bike a year level and you will see some action. That kind of sales level is what you need to really go racing and When Erik can justify a racing budget based on 100 dollars per unit sold oh boy could he build a race bike! Now for those who say HD has the $... sure they do but they don't need racing. They already spend more on racing than you could justify from a marketing point of view. Buell will need to fund racing through it's own sales. First they need to sell street bikes and I for one think they make a terrific street bike. And it is not just selling the things. The dealers need to be out there supporting them. Can you imagine some of these HD mechanics if they had to deal with a multi valve overhead cam engine! Be afraid be very afraid. Dave | ||
| Chadleys1 |
Mikeyp, If your S1 is really handling that sloppy, you need to fix it. Your fault, not the bike's. Sorry you have such crappy backroads, this is not the bike's fault either. Tight and twisty backroads are where an S1 really shines. Your "Buell Sucks" statement says more about your backroads than your Buell. PS Don't say "Buells Suck" anymore. Thanks, Chad | ||
| Blake |
Hey Mike, Any time you get tired of that S1, please let me know. Shoot man, I keep telling you... Nallinize or Ramanate that thing. I'm just shifting into 4th gear at 100mph. The brakes on your RC are better. Nobody wants to hear that they're bikes suck. Yep! Especially when they start throwing out bullshit statements to support their personal opinions. That's why you Buell guys hate the racer boy wannabe's. Uh, aren't you a Buell guy? Seriously though. I don't hate anyone for what they ride. Far from it. I don't know anyone who does. It's disheartening to see the brand bashing, and the generalization of all the racer rep guys. Yep! What is it with them? I mean an inferiority complex can only explain things so far. Me, i like anything that burns dinosauer juice, and has two wheels. Me too. BTW, don't lose the infamous photo again. My copy got trashed along with the Hard drive last year. Good to see you here for a change. Hope the family is doing well. Ciao, Blake | ||
| Dynodave |
Mike's S1 needs the new isolator kit and a set of Wave (braking) rotors and he will be good to go on those twisties. | ||
| Peter |
Reepicheep, I haven't seen the prices drop 20% here. It is making Rex's S2 look very tempting though... | ||
| Peter |
This is good. Press Release - for immediate publication Jensen puts Tul-aris on Pole and Wins Formula USA National Road Race. Pacific Junction, Iowa. Robert Jensen piloted the Tul-aris to its crowning achievement at the Formula USA National Championship races at the Mid-America Motoplex this weekend. Robert and the Tul-aris lapped under the existing lap record on Thursday, beat top-level national teams on Friday, placed the Tul-aris on pole on Sunday morning and raced to our first-ever national win in the Formula USA Unlimited GP class on Sunday afternoon. The racing activities began for the MotoDynamics Tul-aris Team on Wednesday afternoon, taking advantage of Mid-America's weekly Wednesday track rider session. We knew we needed to improve our setup, which, while good enough to win the last club race at Mid-America, would not be sufficient to win at the national level. We started with shock linkage geometry adjustments, which yielded immediate improvements and put us on the right track. Thursday afternoon we continued our track testing and adjusted the swingarm pivot position, followed by a final linkage eccentric adjustment. This final change, plus a fractional carburetor needle setting adjustments, enabled Robert to lap underneath the existing lap record, putting in a time of 1:31.84, and it was only practice! Friday morning electric gremlins awoke and played havoc with our powervalve control circuit, causing intermittent valve flutter. The problem was traced to a shorted wire, which in turn damaged a sensor in the control circuit. Tul-aris Team member Jim Hubert ultimately fixed this problem Saturday with the help of express-mailed components from Digi-Key Corporation. Despite this handicap, Robert won the CCS GTO race on Friday, in the process beating such top-level riders as Arclight Suzuki's Dave Stanton and Scott Harwell on their FUSA Superbikes. We knew then that if we continued at this pace we were looking good for Sunday's Unlimited GP National Championship race. During Sunday morning's warm-up practice we found that the power valve controller now worked flawlessly, and a final emulsion tube change allowed Robert to pick up the throttle earlier and drive harder out of the turns. Our consistently good Nutec fuel allowed us to make such minute jetting changes with consistent results. A few clicks here and there for a final adjustment of our Ohlins suspension resulted in Robert proclaiming, "The bike is perfect now, so don't change anything!" Sunday morning, our goal for qualifying was to get on the front row - we did not want to risk anything chasing the lap record, so Robert put in a 1:32.2, which put us on pole by over ½ second over the nearest competitor. Our race strategy was simple: go fast enough to win, but don't risk anything more. Robert executed that perfectly. We decided to use Michelin's new 490A rear tire for the race, which we had tested prior in the week and found to produce excellent grip with long life on this abrasive track. After a bad launch at the start of the FUSA Unlimited GP race, Robert passed 6 or 7 bikes in a matter of a few laps, then passed early race leader Shawn Conrad at about 1/3rd into the race. Conrad, who was riding slightly injured, tried to stay with Robert, but despite lapping at his own personal best lap times was falling back steadily. Robert kept watching the pit board and put in consistently faster laps, opening up a 15 second lead by the end of the 14-lap race. Robert rode a perfect race, never pushed hard and did not make mistakes. With his win, Robert, on the Tul-aris, is now co-leading the FUSA National championship series together with Mike Barnes on a GSXR 1000. When Robert crossed the finish line, history was made: no homebuilt bike ever won at this level. Not even the amazing Britten, which competed in the similar unlimited WERA Formula Extreme championship in the mid-1990's, could win against the ever-improving motorcycles from Japan. The Tul-aris project is a testament to the fact that one can still create excitement in the matter-of-fact world of engineering, with limited financial resources trumped by ingenuity and determination. Robert Jensen also proved a point: not only did he provide skilled setup feedback, he also showed his race craft with his first-ever win in a Formula USA race on the Tul-aris. Shortly thereafter he rode a very smart race and beat current Formula USA Grand National Champion and ex-500 GP world championship racer Matt Wait to win the FUSA Sportbike class, with both riders mounted on Yamaha R6s. Robert also finished a close 2nd on his R6 to Matt in the last race of the day, the FUSA Superbike race. The MotoDynamic's Tul-aris project is sponsored by: Michelin, Nutec Racing Fuel, Ohlins USA, Hot Seat Performance, Lofgren Racing/Manley Cycle, GP Tech, Yoyodyne Titanium, Mason Racing Tires, MTS Systems Corporation, Carbon Fiber Specialties Products, DCM Services, Deus Ex Machina, 3-D Systems, BRP and RK Chain. Special thanks to Eric Christensen, Brian Gillingham and Chad Pierce at Polaris for parts and advice as well as a special thanks to Steve Scheibe for stimulating discussion on race bike development. Last but not least a very special thanks to all the Tul-aris Team members and supporters that helped make all this possible. This weekend's race team consisted of Dave Adolfson, Dave Heisserer, Jim Hubert and Cindy Peterson. Robert Jensen is sponsored by Butler Machinery, Michelin, Arai Helmets, RS-Taichi Leathers and Sidi Boots.  | ||
| Ray_maines |
OK, I give. What's a Tul-aris, and why is this good? | ||
| José_quiñones |
Congratulations to the whole Tularis team.
Dave, the VRod? Interestingly, the VROD trained mechanics at our Dealer are also the Buell trained ones. Coincidence? I'm not afraid. Btw, has anyone compared the price of a 10,000 mile service on an XB compared to a Vrod at your local dealer? | ||
| Buelliedan |
grndskpr, I am an MSF instructor so I do have some hard facts. It sounds to me like the HD spokesman was trying to use some scare tactics instead of real facts. And BTW, what is a HOG handbook? I ride Buells not Harley Davidsons!!  | ||
| Mikej |
Vik, I wasn't arguing or presenting a true argument, just stating that the CBR wasn't the bike for me. The owner of it does have a slightly older Suzuki (Katana? or something) that is mulling around in my head as an occaisional zipper bike. The thing that killed me on the CBR is the same thing that killed me on the XB9R, the riding position. I don't need bolt-upright cruiser ergs, but I also don't want belly on the tank crouch to get a comfortable grip on the handlebars. Would I ride the CBR if it was mine? Yep. Would I probably end up riding it a bit faster than I do the Buells? Probably. Do the Buells fit my needs and desires at the moment better than the CBR or Suzuki would? Yep. Did I enjoy the ride on the CBR? Yep. Would I ride it again? Yep, especially on a low traffic day. But for me, for now, the Buells work. And for the record I found a broken spring on my M2 last night as I was changing the primary fluid. The little spring that holds the clutch adjuster locknutsleevethingy in. I'll be seeing if the local shop has one in stock. I just enjoy riding. | ||
| Kevyn |
...Rich King, riding the factory sponsored HDXR750, beat Chris Carr across the finish line by mere inches...does that count for HD racing effort? King's racer was painted in the familiar silver colors for the anniversary celebration and Mr. D was on hand to witness the events and congratulate the podium finishers. Factory sponsored Suzuki's were there, but no where near the podium... | ||
| Bomber |
this whole "my dad is bigger than your dad" is sure getting old . . . . . like several have written, I've never met a bike I didn't like . . . my M2 is so close to the big I've been building in my mind since the Johnson administration that it's scarey . . . . I'd love some changes (self-cancelling turn sigs, vacuum petcock, 100 rwh, a kickstarter), but the fact of the matter is that riding it makes me grin like nothing since my 305 Honda Street Scrambler with High Pipes and Snuff'r'nots . . . I've owned faster bikes, quicker ones, smoother, smaller, bigger, ya da ya da ya da .. . . but the Ma Duece is the best fit for what I want for most of my rides (street, B'trax or track days) . . . If I had the dough, I'd have a buncha bikes, rather than the two that presently move under their own power (and, yes, one of the is a Buell {grin}) . . . but time and tides (and finances) conspire to keep the two-wheeled motorpool under control always liked Buells, rejoiced when Harley bought em (otherwise I would never have been able to afford one), and flat out got a bad case of gimme-gotchas when I heard Erik Buell speak at the Chicago Museum's opening for the "Art of the Motorcycle" . . . .I figured, correctly, that anyone who could speak so realistically and eloquantly about engineering matters was likely building something with my name on it. I was right for those who like other bikes better, I say good on you, come on out for a ride . . . I now return you to your regularly-scheduled brand-bashing | ||
| Grndskpr |
I am an MSF instructor so I do have some hard facts. It sounds to me like the HD spokesman was trying to use some scare tactics instead of real facts. And BTW, what is a HOG handbook? I ride Buells not Harley Davidsons!! He was not a spokesman he was a VP, i am just asking, are your facts up to date???As far as the HOG handbook, the BRAG book will look the same shortly once they figure it out, belive it or not, Buell will remain seperate from HOG, but there handbooks will be pretty much the same(the basic rules pretty much apply) and BRAG is still young, but as far as rules it will and does follow HOG, reading a HOG handbook is not a negative thing, they have way more information, and may help your chapter out from time to time, something to consider Roger | ||
| Buelliedan |
Roger, I could care less if it was Willie G speaking! As for BRAG, well I don't belong to them either anymore after the way they handled the 2001/2002 Homecomings. As I said I ride Buells not Harleys. Unfortunately the company can't seem to tell the difference!! | ||
| Snail |
I think what irritates me is to have all Japanese bikes lumped togeather, instead of treating them as individual machines. Theres a world of difference between a CBR and a Gix or an R1. These bike are as different as the different models of Buells. To dismiss a Gix because you don't like the seating postion of a CBR is like saying you don't like Miles because you sat on a Duc once and the Italian bikes don't feel right. Who's the bigot here? Certainly not me, I try to ride em all. I actually like every motorcycle I have ever ridden, even Triumphs. Some I like better than others, and the new Gix is a shining star. Try it. Paul | ||
| Road_thing |
Bomber--well said (as usual)...You, too, Snail! r-t (Message edited by road_thing on May 28, 2003, %time) |
