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Duggram
| | Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 10:05 pm: | 
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I agree with not dragging your knee. An expert suggested that I lean in till the knee touches and it feels right, then lift the knee. If you think about it dragging your knee really is slowing you down. I don't like the sound and feel either.
My 1125 at Arroyo Seco.
Edited for a smaller pic.
(Message edited by duggram on January 07, 2010) |
99buellx1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 07, 2010 - 10:21 pm: |
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I don't put much weight on it, just use it as a feeler to know where I am and how much farther I can go if I need to.
I leave it just tapping across the ground. |
Family_buells
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 11:13 am: |
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Most of the time I let my kneepuck skim just above the pavement, bet there are some corners where I there is a good chance that the front may slide. In those types of corners I've got the knee puck on the ground fairly firmly. That way if the tire slides my knee will take the weight off the front end making it easier to regain grip. If I have my knee 1 or 2 inches off the deck in that situation then the front will be too far gone before I can react to the slide.
Last turn at Nelson Ledges:
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Blur
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 12:41 pm: |
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You guys that are dragging toes, are you riding with the balls of your feet on the pegs? If not that will get you a lot more clearance.
Its fun dragging your knee for the first time but once I got used to it I use it more of a gauge so I know how far leaned over I am. Once I touch down I usually pull it back up unless its a weird turn. |
Family_buells
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 12:45 pm: |
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Duggram,
That is the biggest kneepuck I have ever seen.... It must weigh 4 pounds! |
Jumpinjewels
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 01:02 pm: |
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Looking at all this is getting me excited about getting back on the track.
After hitting the feeler on my XB, that was the first thing to come off my CR. Didn't like getting pushed up then having to forcefully lean more and roll on the throttle to keep from going off the track. Would love to drag knee some day. |
Eboos
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 01:08 pm: |
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quote:Would love to drag knee some day.
The day you stop "trying" is the day it will happen. My first race weekend was the first time I dragged a knee. I've done trackdays before that and couldn't get my knee down. When I stopped trying to get my knee down and simply just tried to go faster, there it was. Now, like others, at most, I just lightly skim as an angle gauge. |
Gas
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 01:09 pm: |
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What tires are you guys using in those pics? |
Eboos
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 01:13 pm: |
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Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa SC2 in my profile pic. |
Family_buells
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 01:22 pm: |
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Bridgestone 250GP slicks |
Gas
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 01:28 pm: |
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I have an SV too, Buells. Haven't tracked it though I used to race an RD350 in prehistoric days. Is that an endurance racer? |
99buellx1
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 01:38 pm: |
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Stock Pirelli Scorpion Sync's on the XB9SX.
They didn't even care about the grass in the concrete cracks! |
Family_buells
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 01:45 pm: |
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Gas,
Yes that's my endurance bike. The 1125R has a lot to live up to in order to be a better all around racebike.  |
Gas
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 02:03 pm: |
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Yes, the SV is a great all around bike for the street, too. After all it's years in production it has few idiosyncracies to fix. I miss that in my CR.
AND...I still laugh when I catch myself marveling at how smooth the SV sounds(?) compared to the rattle/knock/clank of the Rotax.
Have you had any major mechanical failures
on your race bike? Has the SV ever dragged any parts at the track? |
Family_buells
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 02:15 pm: |
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Nothing drags since I put the GSXR front end on it and set up for max ride height front and rear. (the forks are 5mm below the top of the triple clamp, but it has worked great like that for over 2 years)
I ran a full endurance season plus several trackdays (2500-3000 race miles) on a slightly built motor and I had the ignition rotor end of the crank break off at Barber trackday. It's a known issue with the SVs and I'd definetly lighten the ignition rotor and possibly put in a slipper clutch to help prevent the problem.
I think that the failure is entirely due to heavy engine-braking and the heavy rotor trying twist itself off the end of the crank. There a lot of people that say if you go over 85hp that you will break the crank, but I think it has less to do with outright horsepower and more to do with the harder engine braking that a motor is likely to see as guys are trying to go faster. |
Duggram
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 06:43 pm: |
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Family, those pucks came with my NJK leathers. What can I say, I'm a noob and I used what Kelsey sent. I have a spare pair of pucks and I don't think they weigh a half pound. Must be the picture?
As for tires, I have been using BS BT003's, medium compound. However, I want to switch to slicks which are supposed to last longer. Using slicks won't affect the classes I ride in (i.e. senior citizen and HWT). |
Family_buells
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 07:26 pm: |
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Duggram, I have a set of NJK leathers myself. I bought a set of Kelsey's show model leathers off ebay... smokin deal for a set of custom leathers. I didn't get the giant kneepucks though. |
Highlander51
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 08:08 pm: |
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Do you guys drag knees on the street like canyons and isolated areas? I don't mind on the track but can't commit this far in the canyons. I live in SoCal and run around most of the mountain canyons but too much traffic, Leo's and dirt on the roads.
I also think that after getting used to the track where everyone's going the same direction and you can see around the corners, I'm just spooked on the street.
I am getting old though. |
Gas
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 08:40 pm: |
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Not OLD Highlander. WISE. |
Highlander51
| | Posted on Friday, January 08, 2010 - 09:01 pm: |
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Maybe that's how I got old. You do wise up in 40 yrs. of riding around here. This bike kinda makes me feel young though. |
Jng1226
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 03:02 am: |
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Kneedragging is FUN!
I should know better, but I love dragging my knee on the street, as well as the track. The 1125R is the easiest bike to knee-down on IMHO, besides a YSR 50 in a parking lot. With today's tires (BT-016, Corsa III, Q2, 2CT, etc.) it's relatively easy to get a knee down given the right corner radius and appropriate conditions (pavement, temperature, etc.) while riding at what I would estimate to be 65%-70% effort, i.e. plenty in reserve if a car crosses the line, dog jumps into road, etc. For me the key is to be looking as far into the turn as possible, which is a critical fundamental of sport riding.
Family_Buells (funny username btw!) describes exactly the reason and proper technique for knee dragging. Professional riders such as Rossi and Lorenzo say they go through a set of sliders in every session, let alone a race. It is a very useful tool for gauging lean but also saving/controlling slides on the track.
It's one my favorite aspects of sport riding, and I enjoy it immensely, like controlled oversteer in a high-powered sportscar. Having started riding sportbikes in '88, I can remember when I wanted to do it so badly that I feel a sense of attainment of what was once a seemingly-unreachable goal when touching down in corners.
There are several corners scoped out on my street rides that I almost always recon first for dirt/debris before going fast enough to drag. Up in the mountains of TN, NC and SC during the summer it is a pretty simple matter, IMHO.
Here's some on-board videos of me enjoying my 1125R with sparking knee sliders. I try to go out early in the AM so I don't spook the cages and have little traffic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D001dCsvB0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL9X5FaYo1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ziv-YsIZMeA
Jeff
p.s. How do you embed YouTube videos here? I paste in the embed code and it doesn't work.
Thanks |
Westmoorenerd
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 04:37 am: |
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Man...Watching everyone drag knee makes me want to do it... I can't seem to though. I think I just don't get off the seat enough. In our Military Sportbike Course they taught us you can get much better lean by keeping your legs in and pointing down with your elbows. I've leaned over far enough to get rid of any chicken strips on the rear, with probably 1/8" left on the front tires. My 30" inseam might not help either. |
Jng1226
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 04:48 am: |
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Westmoorenerd - After all I said in my post, I don't think you should try too hard to drag knee on the street for your first time. It can be very dangerous if things go pear-shaped.
Best thing to do is to go to a track school if you have a track near you. Are you in NC at Bragg? I used to go to VIR all the time and it's only about 3 hours away. Aaron Stevenson's Cornerspeed school is very good, and if you're riding that well on the street you should be dragging your knee at VIR in turn 1 without even trying. There's also some back roads around Fayetteville that are twisty enough and low-traffic enough to practice on.
Seriously, just shift over onto one butt cheek with your knee out at a natural extension, and concentrate on rolling the throttle on smoothly and being smooth on your steering input as you look as far into the turn as possible. You will lose that feeling like you're going to run out of traction and your knee will drag when you least expect it because you're concentrating on cornering.
Make sure you have decent Supersport-type tires and the pressure is correct. If you do insist on doing it on the street try doing it in 2nd-gear left hand corners first so if you do go wide you don't go into oncoming traffic.
Good luck, be safe and have fun!
Jeff
p.s. I have a 30-inch inseam as well so it really is a matter of technique. You'll know exactly what I mean the minute you do it right, and you will be hooked! |
Westmoorenerd
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 05:00 am: |
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I'm in Guam...best thing we have for a track is the drag strip and an abandoned air strip...Thanks for the tips though, I can't wait to get back state side in a few years to get some track time... I've only been riding for a year too, put a couple thousand miles on my lil 250 ninja, then couldn't pass up on my Buell. |
Eboos
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 09:09 am: |
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quote:In our Military Sportbike Course they taught us you can get much better lean by keeping your legs in and pointing down with your elbows. I've leaned over far enough to get rid of any chicken strips on the rear, with probably 1/8" left on the front tires.
The military course is missing the point entirely then. The reason for shifting your body weight (hanging off) is to lessen your lean angle by altering your center of gravity. The greater the lean angle, the lesser your traction. By hanging off, you are able to take the same corner at the same speed with less lean angle and more traction.
Here is a whole collection of videos showing why you shouldn't be doing this on public roads. http://www.youtube.com/user/rnickeymouse#g/u |
Highlander51
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 10:12 am: |
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Those youtube vids of Mulholland are where I ride every weekend. Up in the snake there is a photographer that sits on the big left hand sweeper to capture your best kneedragging exploits. Every weekend someone eats it. It got so bad on Angeles Crest the cops shut it down for awhile as there were so many guys going over the guard rail. They had to heli them out and it was costing the county alot of money.
Last summer 17 fatalities on the Crest, 5 on the snake. |
Duggram
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 10:27 am: |
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Behind Sandia Mountain (Albuquerque) there is a twisty road to the top. In the fall of '08 when I got my 1125R I road it a few times. Then my neighbor told me how he used to race on it till one of his friends low-sided off a cliff and made himself a quad. By coincidence my 1125 only runs on a race track now. |
Duggram
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 10:29 am: |
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Forgot to mention that now I only ride my FJR on the street, like an old man. I'm not into that squid riding style. |
99buellx1
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 12:19 pm: |
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I don't think I've ever touched knee on the street, I don't see the need to ride that hard.
That's what the track is for. |
Jng1226
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 12:40 pm: |
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I understand the "keeping it on the track" sentiment. That is the prudent path, I guess I'm just obsessive/compulsive and love doing it too much. I should add that most of the corners on my street ride that I can touch down on are fairly low speeds, around 40-55 mph. There are a couple on/off ramps that are about 70mph but nothing like the front straight kink at VIR or T4 at Jennings GP (120-140+ knee down).
Squidliness is in the eye of the beholder! I guess to some I am "that" guy, but do my best to do it when no ones around.
Jeff
(Message edited by jng1226 on January 09, 2010) |
Duggram
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 01:51 pm: |
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Jng1226 I didn't mean I thought you were a squid. I mean that I'm not into street racing or show-off riding, what I thought squid riding meant. If you're saying it is your thing, then more power to you and be safe. |
Jng1226
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 10:07 pm: |
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No problem Duggram. I wasn't sure if you actually were referring to me with that comment, but it was OK either way. It's the varied opinions that make the discourse on this site great (usually). My definition of squid is the same as yours.
The consensus of opinion on this thread is that knee-dragging on the street is not wise and is ill-advised, which I can understand and see if someone wanted to include that in their category of squid behavior.
I do believe that motorcycle technology (mainly tires and quality stock suspension) has improved so much in my riding career (1988-present) that getting your knee down on the street and mountain roads is actually safer than ever if approached prudently.
Jeff |
Highlander51
| | Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010 - 11:57 pm: |
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Hey Jeff, you look pretty casual in that photo. No judgement from me either. I admire the skill level to ride with with that much trust.
I find I'm thinking to much about what's coming up, and my declining reflexes at 60 yrs old. Ride safe and post more of your pictures. |
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