| Author | Message | ||
     Easyrider |
Finally here it is our Buell X1 Stage 1 Kit : http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/webshop/artikel.asp? guid=YXHFSC&aid=2706&cid=9669&s=&a= Depending on the quality of the engine, this kit will make between 84-94 HP on the rear wheel and between 106-112 NM of Torque on the rear wheel.  (Message edited by easyrider on December 23, 2009) | ||
| Kalali |
Isn't 1180 Euros a bit too much? | ||
| Easyrider |
For a set of equal length headers, a slip on exhaust, and a fully programmed ECM, i don't think so. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
What's with the big dip off the line? My X1 with a loud slipon, forcewinder, and race ECU pulls like a train off the line. From that graph, it looks like it's worse than stock. | ||
| Easyrider |
Natexlh1000, Post your graph, then I understand what you mean.. | ||
| Kalali |
IIRC the X1 with stock intake and exhaust also has a dip right around the same area maybe at a little higher RPM. But most after market exhausts along with the appropriate changes in the fuel maps (in that area) tend to get rid off the dip. I could be totally wrong here but my guess is that the ECM switches from open loop to closed loop right around there and you need to keep that in mind when tweaking the maps. All in all the power gain is quite healthy.... | ||
| Preybird1 |
 See the torque on my graph. It goes right up to max no dip in torque....But mine is tuned and mapped differently. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Yeah but did it have the dip off idle before you messed with its little head? Honestly, mine feels very strong from 2,200 up. I have never dynoed it but the front end will pop right up with the throttle in first gear at 2,500 RPM. I'm not saying that you're full of crap or anything but that dip on yours seems to correspond to a good strong area on mine. Perhaps a little more tweaking would further improve your power characteristics? Do you have a plot of the exhaust gas mixture? | ||
| Easyrider |
Natexlh1000, I Thought so, you never dynoed (-: The dip is created, when you use a lot of break on the rear wheel, from 1000 RPM. Not many people dyno like that. When I make with the same setup, the same run from 2000 RPM, you will not see the dip there. My daily work is making fuelmaps, and i don't do a little tweaking, I make a serius good running bike in every throttle position. I simulate when I make fuelmaps, a situation that there are 2 people on the bike with luggage. Otherwise when you don't do that, the bike will run lean when riding with 2 persons with luggage. If you guys have some time look here: http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/artikelen.asp?aid=67 Or here: We also make exhaust and test the look here: http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/artikelen.asp?aid=56 (Message edited by easyrider on December 22, 2009) | ||
| Easyrider |
Preybird1, Can you show me the graph in a big screen with only the Torque and HP curves, Like mine. | ||
| Rickie_d |
I would like to see more detail of that graph also... | ||
| Kalali |
Easyrider, maybe I missed it but did you mention what bike do you have and also what software tool do you use for modifying the fuel maps? Did you also have to change the timing maps as part of your tweaking? Thanks. | ||
| Easyrider |
Kalali, Thanks, this is for The Buell X1. And Yes I also changed the timing in this Setup to match the exhaust. (Message edited by easyrider on December 23, 2009) | ||
| Kalali |
Do you use ECMSPY? | ||
| Easyrider |
Kalali, Yes I do.. | ||
| Kalali |
Thanks. I was curious to know what type of changes you made in the timing maps. I spent a great deal of time working on the fuel maps mostly in the idle area along with the cold start enrich table in order to improve the idle (both warm and cold) and off-idle throttle response but I've always been a bit leary about fiddling with the timing without access to a dyno. The only changes I've made in the timing table was to bump up the values from 0 to 5 in the block of cells (six cells I believe) at the bottom left corner of the map just to get the idle dialed in. Otherwise it looks like the generic Race maps are good enough for the V&H slip-on and a Forewinder I have on the bike. | ||
| Easyrider |
Kalali, Timing tables are always depending on - air filter - exhaust - quality of the engine I always tune on the save side... And the generic race maps, are old, one of the first products Buell made, and not really good. don't forget that Buell was not allowed by law to sell products that harm the enviorment. 1 of the later restrictions was to ask you your race licence to be sure you know what you do. All the race ECM buell made for the Buell are basic poor programmed products for all models. So the Race ECM is a standard product, and should be used as a standard tool, with the adjusting cable and the CD (Buell never sold these parts for the Buell X1) to go to a dyno and adjust your bike. It is a ferry tale that you can run your bike in whatever setup with the Race ECM, you will hurt the engine... You need to go to a dyno and let somebody adjust your bike, or buy a fully programmed ECM, or send me a ECM. | ||
| Brinnutz |
That's why they are labeled race only. So they could bypass the environment restrictions. | ||
| The_italian_job |
Easy, I don't see how you can program an ECM without having the bike. even if I'd tell you the set up I have, it's impossible that you can fine tune an ECM and send it back to me and the bike runs smoothly! and the reason why it's like this, is because each engine is different. and you definitely are a smart guy who knows what he says when it comes about bikes, so don't state that we can purchase from you a fully programmed ECU or send you ours and you can make miracles happen, because it won't be like that.  | ||
| Kalali |
I am sure if I had access to a dyno and a good tuner I could get more performance out of my X1. But to be honest even with the minor tweaking I have been able to do as a novice, it will be a while before I grow out of what the bike offers me as it sit right now in my garage.... | ||
| Easyrider |
The_italian_job, I didn't say i can do it for every bike, only for the setups that i had on my Dyno, So if somebody runs a exhaust type that is not know for me I don't do it. My luck is that I dyno a lot and see a lot of bikes with different mileage to know what I do. I don't make miracles, I take care of the Fuell, It is the same a Ducati is doing you purchase there a complete ECM for a specific setup, So you Tell now that ducati is selling Miracles, Interesting theory, Please explain also why that is not possible | ||
| Ducxl |
I thought a good stock '99 X1 made about 88rwhp? Weren't they originally advertized like that? Meaningful mods like the ones made by Preybird offer the best "seat of the pants"performance increase.I'd also agree that this engine platform isn't engineered well enough for such mods. Gotta applaude the efforts tho  | ||
| The_italian_job |
I didn't mentioned Ducati (which I used to own one before they stole it from my garage 2 weeks ago, a 1098 S full equipped). and even with the Termi race ECU that Ducati provide with his race kit (I had one on my bike, but it had the the rev limiter moved up to 11,500 RPM, when the regular ones cut at 10,000) can be adjusted. not fine tuned, but adjusted. by the way, I didn't want to be aggressive on my last post, I just wanted to make clear that you can't get out the best of an engine without having the bike in within you hands, even with the same set up, cause every engine makes its own story. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about... | ||
| Easyrider |
The_italian_job, I have no idea, please explain... | ||
| The_italian_job |
I will send you a drawing soon... | ||
| Rickie_d |
The_italian_job - If you are not going to post the explination, send me a copy of the drawing too...Otherwise... Easyrider - Post the drawing for the rest of us, if you ever get it. Thanks! | ||
| The_italian_job |
I think I was being clear on what I wanted to say. I never knew anybody in this world who can tune a bike without putting the bike materially on the dyno. each and every motor, even if we talk about the same model of motorcycle, runs differently and this is a fact. so now explain me how you wanna fine tune a bike without having the bike in your hands???? do you still need further explanations or I was enough clear? if not, I'll go ahead with the drawing. | ||
| The_italian_job |
you mentioned Ducati and its Termi race ECU that comes with a standard map. ok so, even when you install the ECU on the same setup (termi exhaust and race filter), you still need to put the bike on the dyno to fine tune it, which means adjust the parameters. cause if the map can be good on one bike, it might not be good on another one. this is a fact. this is what they have done on my 1098 S. | ||
| Rickie_d |
As I expected…A person cannot draw a picture (even figuratively) without the ability to conceptualize what it is they wish to share. In order to conceptualize it an individual must have the ability to focus and/or articulate it accurately. In order to do that, an individual must have intimate understanding and skill (experience). To often there is the habit to convey someone else’s thoughts, advice, or opinion through the filters of your own experiences, as fact when it is not; or just a fragment of fact taken out of context. Often times the resulting drawing (even figuratively) starts to look like something a two year old did on a wall with a crayon. (Message edited by Rickie_d on December 27, 2009) | ||
| The_italian_job |
Rickie, I explained what my thoughts are since you definitely are more experienced than me and have definitely a better language fluidity (I'm sorry but english is not my first language and still find some difficulties to express what I have in my mind) than me, please explain that what I'm saying is not true. please tell me that you can fine tune a bike even from miles away just knowing what pipe and air filter you have on! because in this case, you and Easy are better tuners even than the people who work on Moto GP, cause those cavemen still need to put a bike on a dyno to fine tune it! also explain me please how 2 completely same bike, with exactly the same engine and same set up (let's say stock), if put on a dyno, they put down 2 different charts and HP. thanks... |
