| Author | Message | ||
     Ponti1 |
I drilled my stocker also. Sounds only a bit more loud at idle, sort of puts it at the same volume or slightly louder than the valve train noise. Under acceleration though, the drilled pipe has a much better sound, to where it actually sounds mean but without being offensively loud. I can still ride mine in the neighborhood at about 4K in first gear, and have never had anyone scowl at me. When drilling, just angle the bit toward the center line of the muffler. Almost no chance of hitting the outside walls, and helped me keep from having the bit skip around on the rounded surface. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Guys, I'm really confused right now. I'm not going to name names, because apparently mentioning some peoples' names on the forum is a faux pas for whatever reason. (Not paying sponsor dues? Pissed off the admins? I have no idea.) I've been emailing with one BWB forum member who PMed me after I posted this thread. He says he does exhaust modifications and that his mods don't lose any power compared to stock. At $275, the modded exhaust seems kinda pricey, but if it sounds good, then I'm okay with that because it's still less expensive than even the cheapest slipons. I found a few videos of his work on Youtube and the bike seems to sound good but haven't found any video that really gives me a good idea of how my bike will sound afterward. (A ride-by with some revving and idling, for example.) Then I've been emailing with another BWB member who also modifies stock mufflers. He says that the first guy's mod costs power compared to stock. He doesn't have any videos or dyno sheets of his mods that I've seen, though, but he does charge less for his work. The thing is, I'm not exactly sure what I'd be buying compared to the first guy, nor am I clear as to which guy's modded muffler sounds better and/or maintains a power level no less than stock. Then I've been emailing with a third guy who offers custom tunes for 1125Rs. He has an Ebay auction that includes some tuning software for $80. But then he says an interface cable is also necessary, which is $50. And then I found a $289 package on his website, which I figured includes "everything" to get a custom tune onto my Buell, but apparently it also doesn't include a cable. And I'm not clear about what I'd be buying for $289 that's different from what I'd be buying for the $80 software and the $50 cable. And $289 is expensive enough that I feel like it ought to cover everything I need to get my bike tuned. If there's no specific hardware needed that needs to stay installed on my bike for the tune to work (IE no Power Commander or whatever), then I ought to just be able to take my bike somewhere, pay a couple hundred bucks, and have the tuner run my bike on the dyno and flash a good tune into it. I don't want to buy any software or cables that I'll never use except for the one time I want to load a tune onto my bike. Seriously, I am so damn confused right now, I don't have any idea what course I want to take. I need someone to tell me the following: a) what exactly their product or service actually does to my bike b) why exactly their product or service is better than "the other guy's" product or service c) what exactly I need to buy from them to accomplish what they say will be done to my bike d) what exactly it will cost me Seriously, I don't understand why I'm having such trouble figuring out what to do here.  Lastly, I'm not trying to piss in anyone's Cheerios here--I really do want to know whose product or service is best and why I should go with them, and so far I haven't found anything conclusive. (Message edited by thefleshrocket on December 12, 2009) (Message edited by thefleshrocket on December 12, 2009) | ||
| Jaimec |
I just plan on getting my stock muffler jethot coated RED this winter. Found a place not too far from here (local) that might be able to do it... | ||
| Rockstarblast1 |
the 3rd guy your talking about is the "name we dont speak of" lol sounds like were talkin in the haryy potter movie now lol any who i know him personally tho never got that tune! but have rode a bike with it for 2 weeks straight..its a good thing! anything other then that i cant tell ya lol. call him you found his web site! as for the 2 ppl messin with the can... id stay way from that because if you dont like it there is no going back.. if you do, do that buy a stocker off ebay and have them do it to that one... thats what id do atleast | ||
| T_man |
If I were you I'd: 1) Buy an FMF Apex Slip-on. $500 2) Get the O.S.B Performance Tune $290 Done. | ||
| Reducati |
if u are just looking for a alittle louder, as i was, not concerned about maybe losing a pony or two, order an fmf pipe and id say u are good to go! | ||
| Blackflash |
ditto to what Rockstarblast1 said. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Guys, I don't mind having my stock muffler modded. It's not like I can't buy an unmodified used one if I decide I want to go back to stock. Considering that I don't like any of the slip-ons in my price range, modding the stock muffler seems like my only real choice. I've heard good things about "that guy's" tune. The problem I have is that it is just way way way too expensive for what you get. Bascially, it's $339 for a mail-order tune. I've dealt with modding and custom tunes in the car market with my '04 Mustang Cobra. It's one of those cars that responds well to mods but needs a custom tune to perform best (and reduce the risk of blowing up the motor). A mail-order tune costs $75, or at least it did a couple years ago. The vendor sends you the tune, and you flash it into your car. You can run the car on the dyno with an exhaust gas analyzer and send the results back to the vendor and he will tweak the tune. (Or you can just leave the mail-order tune as-is if the car runs well.) All of which is covered under the initial $75 cost. You can also take your car to the dyno and have it custom tuned on the spot by a knowledgeable person. That usually costs about $200. So paying $339 for a mail order tune that could still stand to be tweaked on the dyno at additional expense is ridiculously expensive. I don't mind paying $200 for a tune for my bike, but if I'm going to spend that kind of money, I want a custom dyno tune, not a one-size-fits-all, should-be-close tune. So does anybody know anywhere else that specializes in tuning Buells that is either local to the southern Illinois area, or does mail-order tunes for more-reasonable money? | ||
| D_adams |
Gateway HD will probably be offering it. It's on Lemay-Ferry in south St Louis. There might be one closer to you, but I'd trust Buzzie with mine to get it done. I just haven't spent the $$ for the dyno time yet. Maybe give them a call, tell them what you've got and see what they can offer? As far as mail order tuning, no, I don't think there's really a cheaper option. Keep in mind that there are a million mustangs out there but only a few (5k maybe?) thousand 1125R's. The curve for performance is skewed a bit for us, more to the expensive side. As I recall, the expensive tune gained something like 20 hp in the midrange. It's a huge boost, especially where you'd use it most. | ||
| Moosestang |
How much is the tool to flash your cobra? That's part of what you are getting for $289. I paid that much just for the tuner for my mustang. Unfortunately this bike is not a mustang, so there aren't an endless number of places tuning them. | ||
| Blackflash |
I run the holley commander efi setup with great success.Wide band datalogger all that stuff.598 rwhp 542lbs tq.308 14lbs of boost.The Dyno results got me in the 10s but after this setup I got her in mid nines with my tune over the dyno tune.Even with the tuner being a well know guy CRT performance OHIO.Datalogging on street and track will put the correct loads needed for aall around purpose tune .It took me over a year to get it right though.Datalogging is the only way in conjunction with a wide band with a check here and there on a dyno.   | ||
| Blackflash |
  These are 07 pics. Engine bay is cleaner now and the wheelies are higher too. | ||
| Blackflash |
What I was getting at is that old fart guys tune is both dyno and street datalogs.It has the best of both worlds not just peak numbers.Thats why when I met him and he told me just that I was sold.Good performance and great drivability.The remus powerizor was garbage and sending a ecm overseas for a tune is expensive.Buying a datalogger alone cost$$$.Suck it up and buy it i did.He also has great support.That means alot to me.He can even run your pc from his.I never needed help because it all worked out perfectly.Remember wiring a protune will void your warranty. This tune is pretty much irreversable in 1 minute.Only downside is you dont get those pretty little stickers that you get with a protune.If you decide to sell your bike you can still sell the tune as well.The key/flashdrive stays with your cd and can be pulled out of your pc .Even better than unwiring your bike.Imho Imports have powercommanders and Most of those powercommander tunes available for my buddys r1 are garbage .He agrees .But there free. What it comes down too is you get what you pay for.  | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Moosetang, yes, a tuner for a Mustang (or most cars) is around $300. And yes, the tuner comes with a few canned tunes--usually they aren't great but they're at least a step in the right direction. But when you buy the tuner, you get something tangible--a piece of hardware that you can hold in your hand, hook up to your car to view detailed sensor info with, or even do some data logging. Admittedly, I'm sure the tuner probably costs the manufacturer something like $30 or $40 to produce. The $339 ($289 plus $50 for the data cable) buys intangibles except for the cable. And $50 for the cable in and of itself is excessive. Have you been to Best Buy and seen the Monster cables they sell for $50? They're like $10 shipped (or less!) on the internet. I don't know what kind of cable it is, exactly, so I can't see if they are cheaper anywhere else. Basically, the software itself is $80 and the cable is $50, which comes out to $130. The difference in price between that and the $339 full package is $209, which is, again, a lot of money to pay for mail-order tune. In my opinion, $200 for everything would be a fair price, considering that aside from the cable, everything else is software and the CD its burned on costs a few cents. Sell me the software for $80, the cable for $50 and the tune for $70. And unlike with a Power Commander or some other piggyback device, the tuning software gets married to one particular bike. If I sell my bike, I can't remove the tune and sell it separately--that money is just gone if the buyer doesn't think it's worth a few extra bucks on the price of the bike. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Dean, good idea. I'll give the STL Buell dealer a call. I'll also check with Dales in Mt Vernon and the Harley dealership in Paducah and see if they can do any dyno tuning of the 1125R. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Drew, I have no doubt that the $339 tune is a good one. It's just too much money on principle. Of course if I can't find a cheaper option, I may well buy it anyway. Assuming I haven't pissed him off by complaining about the pricetag! | ||
| D_adams |
It's a FTDI usb cable, it's not the same as a normal one. I think it's got 6 wires and is capable of carrying 5v for a signal or something else that's not in a standard usb cable. Just the bare usb cable of that type is normally $30-35 and then the connector with the pins is another $20 from HD. I considered making my own, but I got one on ebay for $35 shipped. Kinda tough to beat the price, of course it was used, but it works. (Message edited by d_adams on December 14, 2009) | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Hey Dean, so what you're saying is that $50 is pretty much fair market value for the cable? Okay, fair enough. I guess I can't complain if it costs that much no matter where I'd get it from. Drew, nice Fox. 598rwhp is really impressive with only 14psi. It looks like you've got an intercooled ATI Procharger setup on your car. I know centrifugal superchargers are more efficient than Roots-type blowers, but your car puts down a good 140ish more horsepower than mine does, and mine's running a 2.76 pulley that's good for 14psi as well. I'm on the stock Eaton though, still, and the boost drops off near redline. With a good port job, I should be a bit over 500rwhp. Of course spending any more money on go-fast parts for the Cobra would mean that I'd have to stop spending money on bike stuff for a while. Probably quite a while. | ||
| Blackflash |
Boost really means nothing more than intake flow restriction.People say well I run 30 psi boost on my stock talon and run a 11:20 . Boost means your not flowing. Example run that same setup with a set of porter heads and a 3" full exhaust and 14 psi stock will become 9 psi modified. I run a Paxton with the discharge nozzle downward to my intercooler. Max impeller efficiency is 55,000 rpm I run a 7" pulley crank and a 2.75 pulley charger side. Gear ratio is 3.4 to 1 on the crank. Well I won't get into it but I'm way overspinning that baby at 6500 rpm.With that pulley setup I should make over 20 psi On a stock car but since my heads flow awesome and a nice exhaust accomidates it I make between 12- 14 psi boost spinning that baby hard.I won kumho street warz at Norwalk Ohio for the fastest mph on a true street car 2 years ago. 146mph I expect better times next year since it's been rebuilt with more compression . I went from 8.21 to 8.75 . | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
I've done some more research and put some more thought into the tune from "that guy", and I'm even more against it now. Imagine you spend $339 for the performance tune and the cable, and then your dealer updates the firmware in your ECM to a newer version. That performance tune won't work any more and you'll need an upgrade. Surely that $339 is enough of a profit for that person that the software upgrade would be free or at least cheap. Nope, it's $99. One could conceivably be $439 into a mail-order tune. That just blows my mind. Did the tune and the software cost a lot of money to develop? Like $10K or more? Even if it did, at $289 a pop (not including the cable, since it can't be reproduced for almost free like a piece of software can), selling 35 copies would be the break-even point. At a more-reasonable $200 per copy, it would take only 50 copies to break even, and it would be at a price that wouldn't feel quite so much like a ripoff. The next thing that gets to me is that "this guy" is apparently either banned from the forum or not allowed to talk about his products--I'm not sure which. All I do know is that if his name or company is mentioned, the keyword filter blocks them out. So, why the bad blood between BWB and "this guy"? Is it because he doesn't want to support the forum and pay the vendor fee? Because if he's charging so ridiculously much for his software and can't even support one of the biggest 1125R forums, that would be just too much. Sorry for the rant. It just really rankles me to see pretty much the only person I know of who makes a good mail-order tune taking such advantage of the community. Yes, being able to charge what the market will bear is one of the tenets of capitalism, and nobody who makes a good product should be expected to give it away, but there is a happy medium where the company who sells the product gets well-compensated but where the consumer is charged a fair price. (Message edited by thefleshrocket on December 15, 2009) | ||
| Zac4mac |
Dave has a product that really is "niche". Just get the tuning SW, it's definitely worth the money. If you're gonna get the Flash, get it, otherwise, do your own work. I've been very happy with Dave, his product, and his support. Z | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Zac, I don't have any doubts that the software or the support are good. I haven't heard one bad thing from anyone who uses "that guy's" tune. But do you really think $289 for the software is a fair price? Or that charging an extra $99 for a software update to make the tune work properly again after an ECM firmware upgrade is reasonable? Pretty much everything for any Buell is a niche product. Does that mean that we should pay $50 for an oil filter or $500 for a radiator cover just because those are limited-availability items? Or $289 for a mail-order tune that costs almost nothing to replicate and which the manufacturer has surely recouped all development costs making each subsequent sale pure profit with almost no overhead? | ||
| Blackflash |
A dealers tune wont even come close hands down. | ||
| Torquaholic |
This thread sure is interesting... from exhausts to mustangs and boost to some guy's Buell tune... this thread is making the rounds. Love the mustang talk though; I built an 11 second 306ci GT40P head '89 hatch in college. Backflash, you said: "Boost means your not flowing. Example run that same setup with a set of porter heads and a 3" full exhaust and 14 psi stock will become 9 psi modified." To put it another way: standard, sea level, barometric air pressure is about 14.7psi (1-Bar). If your motor makes 300hp NA, then 7psi (pounds of boost) will add roughly 50% of the existing horsepower, making the 300hp motor push 450 on 7 pounds of boost. Add heads and exhaust and the motor now makes 360hp NA. That same 7 pounds of boost now makes 180hp instead of 150, bringing the 360hp motor up to 540hp. Boost is just a measurement of air pressure in the manifold on top of standard pressure. If your goal is only X_hp, then the more power your motor makes NA, the less boost you'll need to throw at it to reach your goal. Thefleshrocket, Kenne Bell blower for your cobra, that's all I'm saying. I'd be pretty miffed if I got the tune and dialed it in, then went to the dealer and had the flash updated only to find out that the tune wont work with the new flash. What? I have to pay another $100 to re-buy the tune for the new flash? (well yeah... he does have to do some work to make the a new flash for the new calibration. You don't get windows 7 for free just because you paid in full for Vista, do you?) Easy fix to that: don't let the dealer update your factory calibration. I see your pricing scenario from a different perspective: spend the money to buy the cable and tuning program, then either buy a wideband setup ($$$) and tune it yourself, or bring it to a dyno and spend ($$$) on multiple dyno runs trying to dial in the AFR... which isn't going to be perfect if your dyno only runs a single exhaust sniffer. These bikes should be tuned with a dual wideband reading, pulling data from each exhaust primary. It is my understanding that the performance flash has been dialed in using a dual wideband setup on both the street and track. Yes, it isn't going to be exactly perfect right out of the box for my bike since it was tuned for another guys setup, but it will be a hell of a lot closer to what I'm aiming for and it will take less time than doing several dyno pulls. I know you're against buying the performance tune and then dyno tuning it yourself. That does sound redundant and a waste of money. Like Zac4mac, I'd suggest getting the tuner program by itself and going to the dyno with just that. (Message edited by torquaholic on December 16, 2009) | ||
| Blackflash |
Torquaholic Good way to sum the tune portion or thefleshrocket.I couldn't of said it better. | ||
| Thefleshrocket |
Torquaholic, I don't think the Windows 7 analogy is exactly fair. I think a more-appropriate analogy would this: Your computer downloads a Windows update and it breaks your antivirus software. The antivirus software company says they can fix their software, but you've got pay 1/3 of the cost of the full program to get the fix. Sure, you could just never do Windows updates, but there are often security patches or performance enhancements that you'd miss out on. So do you risk compromising your Windows installation for fear of having to pay more money to your antivirus company if their software gets broken by the update? Of course the hole in my analogy is that there are tons of antivirus software manufacturers, so if one pulls something shady like that, you can just ditch them and go with a different company. Whereas there is only one guy that offers the tune and the tuning software for the 1125R/CR, so it's either suck-it-up and take it or do without. Regarding the Kenne Bell, that would certainly be nice. A lot of guys on the SVT forum seem to be going with Whipples, though. I think KB was the way to go a couple years ago but since then, Whipple has come out with a better product. That said, it's a moot point. My Mustang is street driven and doesn't do any competitive events. (I drag raced it at the strip a few times one night, that's it. I might get around to autocrossing it some day, but it hardly needs more power for that.) There's no way I'd be able to convince my wife that I need more than 460rwhp for the street. LOL | ||
| Torquaholic |
haha.. no joke; that's a tough argument. "why do you need an exhaust and tune on your bike? it can already go faster than most cars?" ... because, honey, i just do. why did you need such an expensive engagement ring? I could have gotten something a lot cheaper. You would have been just as happy, right? <-- that didn't go as well as I hoped for. you're right, my windows analogy was extreme; that's just what came to mind first. Either way, i think we both understand each other. 'glad we can keep things civil. | ||
| Easyrider |
Guys, You also have this: http://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/webshop/artikel.asp? guid=YXHFSC&aid=2707&cid=9669&s=&a= record holding combination..  | ||
| Justa4banger |
SO back on subject... which exhaust has the best bark with out being obnoxious or freaking expensive....? Oh and i too have a mustang... Only a 4cyl though 2.3 liters Only made 438WHp out of the 2.3...  | ||
| Blackflash |
It looks good but noone in the states has backed the results up with a dyno chart. |
