| Author | Message | ||
     Mountainstorm |
I just got the bike set up with an HMF slip on, K&N with no inner airbox cover and Jardine Protune III. I took an 85 mile spin at 60-80 mph in 4th mostly and the AFV were 105F 90R. I am guessing that means the rear cylinder 02 sensor thinks it's getting too much fuel and the front 02 sensor thinks it needs fuel. Is this disparity due to the unequal length headers being merged into the HMF slip on? Or is it just "normal" to see 15 points difference between cylinders? With the stock set up it was 100 100. I plan on some dyno tuning and I understand the limitations of the Jardine Protune compared to real tuning using SW but I am mainly interested in seeing if the tuner is keeping the bike from running too lean. It appears that I will be further over richening the rear cylinder if I bump up the "cruise" mode on the tuner card to try and get 100 from the front AFV. Is this something to worry about? Any help or insight would be great. | ||
| 1_mike |
Why remove the air box cover ? There is a reason it's there, and for what it's worth, it works. If you want the most from your engine, do it a favor and close up the airbox like it was designed to be. With the enrichening tool you have, your best bet is to find a good dyno shop that knows their stuff with actually tuning, vs. just doing a dyno runs. Mike | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I was under the impression that removing the inner cover provided more airflow. I'll pop the inner cover back on and ride some more and see if I can feel any difference. Dyno tuning is the plan but I won't be doing that until 2010...we travel at Xmas so I gotta leave my baby all alone for a week or two  Thanks for what sounds like reasonable advice. | ||
| Torquaholic |
Mountainstorm, Thanks for posting the tips in the HMF install thread. I would also suggest keeping the inner airbox installed, especially since you've got the K&N. I'm pretty sure that 60-80mph in 4th gear would have your bike beyond 4Krpms. I've been under the impression that the bike "learns" the AFV's under 4Krpms, so under normal-slow speeds in high gears should help it learn quicker. FWIW, I've read some posts that mention the bike seems to take a lot longer to learn in colder ambient temps. If none of this helps, try reinstalling the paper air filter. If I remember correct, some people were posting big AFV changes from the K&N alone when it first hit the market. | ||
| Orman1649 |
Anything I have ever heard is the bikes run the same, if not BETTER without the cover on BELOW 70-80mph....and they sound alot meaner w/o it. | ||
| Dirty_john |
As I understand the design the airbox ends up running at a slight positive pressure at road speeds above approx 80 mph, it may sound meaner low down but the benfitial effects of a positive pressure air box would be lost at high road speed with it removed, I suppose it depends on how fast you actually ride compared to how fast you think you are | ||
| T_man |
The dirty man is right. I ran mine with the cover off for almost the entire summer and I had problems pushing through 140mph. I put it back on and straight away was up to 160mph. I'll be doing some comparitive runs at the drag strip this spring to get some solid numbers with it both on and off. Your right about the sound though... it does sound horny with it it off! | ||
| Orman1649 |
Which is exaclty what I was saying…you should *never* be riding fast enough on any public (American) road to take advantage of the "positive preassure" or "ram air effect" or whatever you would like to call it. This isn't to say that people DON'T drive fast enough to take advantage of it, even though it is illegal. …and of course, it is a completely different situation on the track, you would clearly want the airbox cover on there. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Well it does have a snarl with it off but that snarl begins to wear on my nerves and hurt my ears after a while. I put the inner cover back on for now and I think I like the sound better with just the HMF tearing away. As much as I'd like to check out that Ram Air effect the 1125r has already put me in jail once and last night testing the exhaust I got pulled for 80 in a 55 but the Trooper was a rider and let me off with 69 in a 55. Otherwise it would be "Reckless Driving" and possible jail again...the Commonwealth pretty much is off limits for me right now. I wish the HMF was not quite so loud. I like a bike with attitude and a sonic signature but maybe I am getting old  I sorta feel like a race-loud pipe tooling round at legal speeds is a little embarrassing. Thanks for the tips and tricks guys. I wish I knew more about how to interpret the diagnostics. (Message edited by mountainstorm on December 16, 2009) | ||
| Mountainstorm |
 Obligatory picture (now that I figured out how to do it) | ||
| Torquaholic |
... the following is copied from the ECMSpy Buell Tuning Guide. I hope its alright to post this here. Hopefully, this gives you a better understanding of the diagnostics. Understanding the TPS The TPS is the Throttle Position Sensor. The ECM needs to know how open the throttle is, and in conjunction with the RPM, and atmospheric conditions, it knows how much air is flowing and hence how much fuel to inject. That is the essence of this tuning. If the TPS value is incorrect, the ECM will provide the amount of fuel required for the wrong throttle setting and hence poor running will occur. A worse scenario is if you tune the bike with an incorrect TPS value, then any future correction to TPS will result in incorrect fuel maps. Understanding the AFV The Adaptive Fuel Value is how the Buell automatically compensates for changes to the environment, eg riding up mountains, or swapping the exhaust silencer. It is not perfect, but does a good job to compensate for minor changes. When the bike is ridden in Closed Loop mode (explained next) the ECM monitors the O2 sensor and learns the appropriate AFV value to apply to the fuel maps. This AFV value is applied across the entire fuel map range, hence it is critical that this is accurate. AFV values can vary from 80 to 160% but should be kept between 90 and 110% whenever possible. The AFV can be your friend, fine tuning the bike to suit your location, or it can be your worst enemy! If you setup the bike on the dyno for maximum power across the range, you will probably aim for 13:1 – 13.5:1 Air :Fuel ratio. If you then go for a ride and enter closed loop mode, the ECM will reset the AFV to maybe 80% to reduce fuel and try to get the default 14.7% AFR. When you next accelerate hard at full throttle, your perfect map as setup on the dyno will now be running at 80% of your values hence weak! To compensate for this, it is recommended when on the dyno to disconnect the O2 sensor, reset the AFV to 100%, then tune the bike for an Air Fuel Ratio of 14.7% within the closed loop area. This will then allow you to set the Air Fuel Ratio for optimum power in the high rpm, throttle areas. Always reconnect the O2 sensor after tuning and check the AFV periodically. So what is Closed Loop? The Closed Loop area is found when riding in low throttle positions at low rpm, but not under stress. I believe this is approximately 1500-4000rpm and 10 – 30% throttle. Riding in Closed Loop allows the ECM to reset the AFV and compensate for the environment. It is good practice to do this periodically. Normal riding conditions will normally include Closed Loop riding for long enough. To ensure the AFV is about right for your setup, try and do a few miles on flat roads between 40 – 70mph and low throttle openings, with a steady throttle. This should set the AFV If you have the time, you could try riding at 2000rpm for a couple of miles and check the AFV. Next try 2500rpm and check, then 3000 and 3500. This would validate your map in this region of Throttle / RPM combination, but is a lot of effort! Remember with a narrowband O2 sensor (standard one) the readings are very slow to respond, hence the steady riding required to adjust the AFV. | ||
| Froggy |
I took the airbox off on my CR as thats my slow bike. I love the sound  | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Thanks for the info Torq The AFV did not change with the airbox cover back on it's still 105 90 but my ears have stopped bleeding  I usually ride above 4K as I don't want to lug the engine. I was under the impression it is very stressful to load up the engine at low RPMs. Seems like the bike is happiest cruising around 4200-4500. | ||
| Terp_bueller |
Storm, It was nice running into you tonight. I'll try to get back in the area, during the spring, without the cage. The bike sounded great at speed, with the slip-on. You looked a little slow in the turns. What...you can't do the speed limit + 25 in the turns? Kidding...saw your post about the trooper. | ||
| Dirty_john |
here in the UK we can usually get a chance to open it up now and again so the inner air box stays in place | ||
| Chimobadbuell |
How do you check the AFV? I see nothing in the manual about any type of diagnostic mode. |
