| Author |
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Easy_rider
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 10:53 am: | 
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Whether it's for taxes or not, in my mind "OTD" means all fees, taxes, etc are included. When they stated OTD then a reasonable person would expect that taxes are included in that price. |
Freezerburn840
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 10:56 am: |
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They should have stated your OTD is $6403.95. |
Freezerburn840
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 11:00 am: |
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Helluva deal but the principle of the matter was overlooked by the dealer. If I was told one thing and someone did another no matter what I would refute and battle the whole way. I agree to their terms and they renege no way do I just let it go. |
Eboos
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 11:33 am: |
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I don't know about Kentucky, but I work at a dealership in RI. We, and all other RI dealerships, are required to collect the sales tax for AZ, CA, FL, HI, IN, MA and MI. We are required to collect the correct tax rate from those states. |
Eboos
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 11:35 am: |
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I also used to work in a MA dealership, and we were not required to collect any tax from a resident of any state. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 11:38 am: |
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The laws vary by states, counties, cities, townships and hamlets.
Again . . all the more reason to ASK. (which, by the way, it appears you did)
You'll recall that several weeks ago folks laughed at me for requiring a car dealer to send me copies of ALL paperwork several days in advance.
The Ford place didn't do this when I bought my first truck from them. After I sat there for 3 hours making, notes, scratching stuff out and asking questions, they were happy to the next time.
I always remind them, when I am going to pick up a new vehicle, that I write the check the day before. If it's wrong, the risk is theirs. |
Budo
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 02:08 pm: |
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This is not about the legality of them collection tax, this is about a quoted price.
OTD means just that, not, well it might be this price, maybe. They did a bait and switch, once they got your 'non refundable' deposit they decided to screw ya. Discover should make it right and if I were you I would file a complaint with the BBB and any other consumer protection agencies that might apply.
Oh, as far as the salesperson calling you petty, if he feels that way then he can pay the 'sales tax' to make it right.
(Message edited by budo on December 14, 2009) |
Kickstand76
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 02:23 pm: |
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Interstate Commerce? maybe?  |
Eboos
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 02:23 pm: |
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I don't agree with the non refundable deposit under these circumstances, but the term "out the door" is vague at best. There are negotiable items like the price of the bike, accessories, ect. and then there is the non negotiable items like taxes and fees.
Being in the state of RI, if I was to sell that bike at that price, the price isn't even high enough to qualify it to have a documentation fee collected, but the sales tax would still need to be collected. That part of it is not within the sales person's nor the dealerships control. They still should have returned the deposit if the misunderstanding could not be overcome. |
Eboos
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 02:27 pm: |
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quote:Im sure about the extra amount being tax. It is a new bike with 1500 miles.(demo bike) They told me no way around it that Harley makes the collect taxes so people dont buy them to resale but every dealer I spoke to said the dont collect tax from out of state. The sales person said we collect tax because we are an adjoining state. (idiot) I bought one right down the road brand new for $6495 and guess what? they didnt collect tax.
If the above circumstances are correct (and not doubting your word), then what that dealership is doing is potentially illegal. |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 02:27 pm: |
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I've had that trick pulled on me a few times buying cars.
I've gotten smart and do what Court suggested. I have them give me the buyers order in advance, then I write a check for that amount.
Makes the deal so much faster. You walk in, sign the paperwork, and hand over your check for the final amount.
I got a good deal on a car once, too good to be true really, and I asked repeatedly if this was the "final number". Then I got confirmation of the payee and amount for the check.
I came in to pick up the car, and got the, "Uh, we made a mistake. We didn't do the math right. It's going to be another $1200". I told them that's not what I agreed to, and I walked out. The next day I get a call and it's the sales man saying, "Well, it was our mistake, so we'll honor the price we gave you if you're still interested." It was such a good deal, that I went and picked up the car, but I'll never buy anything from them again. |
Budo
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 02:43 pm: |
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"I don't agree with the non refundable deposit under these circumstances, but the term "out the door" is vague at best. "
Not so, to everyone else here OTD means the actual total price you pay period. Not a price plus whatever number we come up with or may decide to add on. Like topping off the blinker fluid is an extra $400. Oh forgot to add in the undercoating, $550.
Hence the term, Out The Door. |
Eboos
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 02:48 pm: |
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Ok, then if my brother was a dealer in MA and I charged a MA customer $5800 OTD, then I worked at a RI dealership and charged $5800 OTD to a MA customer for the same bike, who got a better deal? |
Wera44
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 02:53 pm: |
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I have the buyers order/ receipt for the bike I just bought and no tax was collected. They gave me a bill of sale and MSO to take to my county tax office to pay them sales tax. This would not have gone down this way if I was near the dealership. I wondered why they insisted I leave a deposit even though I was going to be there in less than 24 hrs. I will know in the morning for sure if the charge hits my discover card. |
Kirb
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 03:23 pm: |
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OTD means "out the door"...Everything should be included- tax, title, licence, f**k fees, etc. I would have asked EXACTLY what is included or excluded in that price.
I bought 2 bikes this year out of state. One charged MI tax, the other didn't (I had to pay it later). Either way I had to make sure the DMV knew about it when registering the title. You CANNOT buy a bike without paying the tax, Period. Regardless if you plan to race it or not. It's still sales tax.
There are shady dealers all over that are trying to take advantage of the rebates. The GR, MI dealer places ads for $6999, but tells you that is for demos only (which they are all out of). Actual price? $7999+TTL. Another dealer quoted me $700 in F**K fees on top of TTL.
The dealer I spoke with (and bought from) laid out exactly what I was going to pay. I went over these numbers several times and had them fax me the bill of sale for the bank. I never had to put a deposit down because I was already on my way that weekend (bike was hardly out of crate when it hit my trailer). Your deal is about $400 better than I paid.
FYI- ask to keep the crate tarp...I have one side hanging in the garage next to my Excelsior Henderson crate side. It's a cool and cheap Buell banner. |
Eboos
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 03:38 pm: |
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The point that I am making with what I said above is: if you purchased from the MA dealer, at that price you would have only gotten the bike. You would have still had to register it, pay tax and so on. If you bought from the RI dealer, you would have gotten the bike and the tax paid, but you would still have had to pay the registration.
Ultimately, most people just like to argue, which is pretty clear here, but they have no idea on what they are actually paying for. So once again, OTD could mean simply what it would cost to get it out the dealership's door, not what it's going to cost to get it on the road. Therefor, vague. |
Iamarchangel
| | Posted on Monday, December 14, 2009 - 09:56 pm: |
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You know, when you try to nail down something vague, and keep saying it is vague, it gets really confusing.
When you toss in other paradigms, it gets even more confusing.
If I have the scenario right, we're discussing the out the door price, not on the road price.
If the dealer is required to collect the tax before it goes out the door, then the tax is inside the OTD price.
If the dealer is not required to collect the tax, then it is not part of the OTD price. If the state requires it, then it is on the road price.
Dealer gave the OTD price, then raised it on the credit card. Buyer didn't like and stopped the deal. Buyer wants deposit back because dealer changed deal.
Sounds like buyer will have the card statement tomorrow showing charge to card. Buyer has emails showing dealer's price and following change to deal. Buyer phones card and explains. Card should straighten it out.
Don't get hung up on tax, it's not the issue. The issue is the changed deal. |
Wera44
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 07:58 am: |
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Don't get hung up on tax, it's not the issue. The issue is the changed deal.
Yep. The deal was changed right after they got my card info. Period! |
Dmhines
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 10:38 am: |
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OTD = The amount of money you gave the dealer before riding it home.
OTD always includes Sales Tax ... sounds like dealer is renigging on the original deal ... |
Wera44
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 10:57 am: |
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Well just got off the phone with Discover and It looks like they let the charge drop off so I guess there are doing the right thing. I do think its funny for they used a scare tactic to get me to take a store credit and keep the money saying I was bound by contract till I told them how it was going to be. F'n scumbags. What a joke. I wonder how many other people they try burn this way.
(Message edited by wera44 on December 15, 2009) |
Eboos
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 10:58 am: |
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Once again, someone who is uninformed.
In this particular case, the dealer tried to pull something shady. But the term OTD can include different things depending on what state you live in and what state you are buying from.
Edit: None of this is directed to Wera44.
(Message edited by eboos on December 15, 2009) |
Budo
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 01:59 pm: |
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Glad it worked out. Now you need to add the dealers name to the list of bad dealers. I don't think anyone here will want to do business withone someone that unethical. |
Wera44
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 06:31 pm: |
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You would have know had I not got my money back, it would have been the one on the news that burned to the ground.  |
Iamarchangel
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 15, 2009 - 07:03 pm: |
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Good to hear. |
Wera44
| | Posted on Thursday, December 17, 2009 - 08:49 am: |
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Weird it hit my account last night???? I just got off the phone with Discover to start the dispute. 
(Message edited by wera44 on December 17, 2009) |
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