| Author | Message | ||
     Backcountryme |
Ok, sorry about getting his name wrong. Spelling has never been my strength. Here is the deal. When you run a team and rely on sponsorship and results then you can tell us all how it should be done. I have never run a motorcycle team, but I have run a car team. If one of my sponsors asked me to change from an engine manufacture that closed to another I would. If the chassis manufacture that I was using stopped building them I would change. If the tire manufacture that I was using closed I would switch. Racing is a business for some, and a hobby for others. When you make your living racing you have to look for what is best for your team. Loyalty as you see it doesn't pay the bills. I am in no way a Buell hater. I am still looking to buy one. But I understand how racing works from the inside. Nothing against the Deedley team, but what were their results in Daytona Sportbike in 2009? | ||
| Backcountryme |
BTW, I am not bashing Deeley. They are great guys. I live in Calgary and I will be going to the track and cheering them on. | ||
| Strongbad |
You have to understand that even though the RMR team is one of the best put together teams in the paddock, they also had full support from the factory including fly-in guys for technical purposes and parts support that was a simple phone call away from getting what they needed. Before EBR came about, that wouldn't have existed for next season. It would have been very hard to put together a winning program without the support of a factory behind you. Some of it is about money and some of it is about winning. Is it fair to Danny to have him defend his number 1 plate on a bike that you may not have been able to get parts for half-way through the season? | ||
| Bads1 |
Strongdad your from Racine. So am I.lol | ||
| Court |
>>>Is it fair to Danny to have him defend his number 1 plate on a bike that you may not have been able to get parts for half-way through the season? Danny had no interest in Ducati. | ||
| Dennis_c |
I hope EBR wins and Danny,Geico,RMR finish #2 | ||
| Backcountryme |
Has EBR announced a team or any plans to race? I know that they are supporting Buell riders, but are they going to race? | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Hey Dennis, when you figure out what the hell you're talking about, let us know. In th mean time, let's talk it out. Rmr and Eslick will be defending their title in the Daytona Sport Bike class. Erik Buell Racing fielded a bike ridden by Cory West in the American Superbike class at NJMP at the season finale last year. Granted that doesn't mean that ERB will field a bike in either class, but it makes more sense that if they're gonna race they're gonna wanna do it with the rr superbike to continue it's development and sell some bikes. | ||
| Backcountryme |
How much more time do Buell bikes have in AMA racing? I have not been able to find in the rule book where the time limit is on non current year models. I do know that AMA is production based racing and that you have to have a street bike for sale at dealerships to qualify. ERB does not have the rights to build street bikes from HD, only to build andd support race bikes. At least that is how I understand it. | ||
| Court |
>>>>for sale at dealerships You may find "for sale" but I don't thing you'll find any reference to "dealerships". I could be wrong. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
yes I remember my fellow contry man Cardenaz Before you jump all over someone for misspelling "Martin", make sure you are not a worse offender. Get a clue, dude. | ||
| Backcountryme |
Court, Section 3 of the 2009 rulebook. 3.1 Homologation a. Only homologated motorcycles may be used in AMA Pro Racing sanctioned Daytona SportBike competition. b. Daytona SportBike competition is restricted to motorcycles (engines and frames) produced for US street use and available in the US through retail dealers. c. See Homologation of Motorcycles under General Equipment Standards. B clearly states that the bike must be for sale in the US through retail dealers.}} | ||
| Court |
It absolutely does. Well done. Totally solvable and thank for the rarest of treats on the internet . . . . FACTS ! | ||
| Backcountryme |
So as far as I can tell it looks like the Buells do not fit the rules now. I am sure that AMA will grandfather the Buell in for 2010. But how much longer will it be able to race since EBR does not have the rights to make a street version of the 1125? I really hope that EBR can keep the 1125 or another bike legal for years to come. | ||
| Crush63 |
Have the rules in AMA susperbike changed that much? Harley raced the 1994 VR-1000 for 7 years (1994-2001). Why would a 09/10 model Buell not be able to race? The 1125R should be legal to race for many years! | ||
| Court |
This is exciting. | ||
| Backcountryme |
That is the question I would like to know. According to the rules the bike has to be for sell in a dealership. I keep hearing people on here saying that the bike is legal for many years to come. But where are they getting their info? How many years is it legal? | ||
| Fuzzz |
If I read the rules correctly, the 08, 09, and 10 Buell 1125's (and the race only parts, both DSB and Superbike spec) are the ones that are homologated, and they were produced and available for sale, (obviously), so all a racer/team needs to do is prove he has an 08, 09, or '10 Buell 1125, and meet the requirements for safety and performance mods, and they should have no problems. After all, Suzuki no longer makes 2008 or 2009 GSXR's, but they will still be legal... It is possible that Erik will have to request homologation for the 1125 for every new year, and since the minimum number of bikes have already been built and sold, where's the problem? (Message edited by fuzzz on December 12, 2009) (Message edited by fuzzz on December 12, 2009) | ||
| Court |
It appears that once motorcycle is homologated it remains eligible until it no longer meets the technical requirements. The appears to be no age or model year requirements. There appear to be no required number of bikes as long as any one wanting to buy one to race can do so. Cool beans! | ||
| Court |
Fuzz: where did you find the "minimum number of bikes"? I must have missed it. | ||
| Davegess |
Court has this correct. No where does the rule call out current model year. Which is a good thing for all those guys at the back of the pack running older 600s and the like. I bike is homologated based on the year it was produced in and remains so until the rules change, say only 400 cc twins are allowed, or the AMA decides to revoke the homologation. Bike do not need to be built in the year they are raced. | ||
| Anonymous |
Look, we are in a battle that really seems to stem over whether Buells could be raced, fueled by RMR's stated reason for going to Suzuki being that Buells couldn't be raced. Fact is I'm sure there were many good business reasons, one being that Suzuki offered money, and secondly wanting to be out of the controversy storm. But there is really no reason why the RMR decision should relate to Buells actually being legal. Richie could make a reasonable excuse of not knowing, and had an alternate option which he took. However, the 2010 1125 bikes were produced and for sale through dealers. The new 1125R based race bikes are in production under license from H-D/Buell. There is no issue with being legal except for those who just want to hate and deny any chance for Buell to race. Bottom line is, and this is what the AMA wants, a privateer can buy a Buell bike right now. There are no trick factory only unobtanium parts. Everyone gets the best that Buell can deliver. And once a privateer has one, it will be grandfathered in for a few years at least. Every other brand is. So 2010 models are the last street production Buells, but for God's sake, we're still in 2009 last time I checked, let alone 2010. So there will be no new models homologated for 2011, but any bought based on 2010 will be legal in 2011, let alone 2010. Hell, Matt Mladin ran last years' bike most of the way through this season. Stop before this degenerates any further and becomes mindless web drivel. | ||
| Backcountryme |
Anon, I see where you are coming from. I am glad that the 1125 can be raced for a few more years. I was just wondering how long the bike is legal. The AMA rules are very vague about that. Not to mention all the controversy about the 1125RR never being a "street bike". Wouldn't any race prepped 1125R now be considered not a street bike? BTW, I am not a hater in any way. I would just like some clarification on the rules. That is if DMG could be a little clearer. | ||
| Anonymous |
The rules are clear. The readers aren't. Matt Mladin was not racing a street bike. Larry Pegram was not racing a street bike. Ben Bostrom was not racing a street bike. Danny Eslick will not be racing a street bike. They race racebikes built off of street bikes in race shops. That is what the race Buells will be. | ||
| Fuzzz |
Court, Your'e right, I couldn't find it in the 09 rules either, but I did find 06 rules (there goes the oldtimers again, My bad) that said any manufacturer that had less than 200 dealers only had to make 300 bikes to be homologated, whereas those with more than 200 dealers had to make a minimum of 400 bikes for The Superbike Class. I also seem to remember that there was only 50 bikes required for the homologation of the VR1000. Perhaps they've done away with the minimum, or they forgot to put it in the rules??? It should be an interesting year... | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
I've been through the AMA Pro rules a few times looking for other things before, and there is no minimum production number quoted. As stated a few times above, it's pretty clear to me that the 1125R has been already been homologated by AMA/DMG for DSB and Superbike(in 1125RR form), so there is no issue to continue racing them in the 2010 season, as already homologated. "I was just wondering how long the bike is legal. " I don't believe there is, or ever has been, a limit to how long a bike can be raced for, as long as it has been homologated for that class at some stage, and meets the current regulations. See Dave Gess post above. Put another way, it is probably legal to enter an '06 GSXR1000 as it has been homologated for Superbike, and it meets the current regulations, even though it's no longer for sale in dealerships. An '09 or '10 GSXR750 would probably meet the current regs, but has never been homologated for Superbike, so it can't be entered. Make any more sense? | ||
| Elvis |
There would be absolutely NO reason for an homologation to "expire". The whole point is you don't want people entering bikes that have carbon-fiber frames etc. and older models aren't going to be more exotic or higher performance than newer ones. Remember Mladin was riding an older model bike at the beginning of this year because Yosh hadn't got the newer one up to speed yet. Most other riders, I'm sure, continued to compete the older Suzuki through the season because they don't have the money the Yoshimura team has. In fact, I'm sure MANY privateers are riding older bikes that they have been refining and messaging for many years and prefer to do that (because of cost and comfort with the existing bike) rather than updating. I specifically remember an interview with someone (sorry can't remember the details . . . I think it was in Canadian Superbike) and he mentioned that the bike he was riding was based on a model that was 5 or 6 years old. It's the way racing has always worked and there's absolutely NO PROBLEM with older bikes running as long as the riders can keep them going. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I work in the "compliance" field, where we try and interpret regulations 10x more complicated then the AMA / DMG rules every day (and with a lot higher stakes). The naysayers are missing a key point... the goal of the AMA / DMG is to *RACE MOTORCYCLES*. It is not to *keep* people from racing motorcycles. Thinks have to be kept balanced or they just aren't fun... but the goal should be to get as many talented riders and interesting bikes in as possible. Did you watch last season? Even when the Kawasaki was ahead of the Buell, I had one heck of a good time watching those races. You and take any complex set of rules and regulations and come up with the answer "no" to any question if that is your goal. That's not the point. The point is racing and the rules are designed to do it, not preclude it, and that is how they should be used. | ||
| Davegess |
I don't know how many time we need to say it; THE 1125R AND RR AS WELL AS THE XB BIKES ARE ELIGIBLE AND WILL REMAIN ELIGIBLE UNTIL SUCH A TIME AS THE AMA CHANGES THE BASIC CLASS RULES TO MAKE THEN NON-ELIGIBLE. The rules for 2010 are already set and the 2011 rules are not far behind with no big changes happening to them. the rules have never been year specific in pretty much every race class I have ever seen. An exception would be SCCA showroom stock but that is a pretty limited example. Many people are running two and three year old bikes, some even older. | ||
| Backcountryme |
Ok, thanks for the answers. |
