| Author | Message | ||
     Gotlime |
Anyone tried the t-rex spools? | ||
| Avc8130 |
T-rex are WAY cheaper. ac | ||
| Gotlime |
cheaper is a good way or a bad way? | ||
| 1324 |
The T-rex spools look good from the pictures. I almost bought those instead of the GPI spools, but I was ordering spool adapters from GPI for my stand, so it was actually cheaper to consolidate into one order with shipping and all. If anyone has the T-rex spools, what is the overall length? | ||
| Cmmfiremedic |
I have them in use and really like them. I love the dark horse ones for protection but its kinda hard to get tire off to change it. I have had the t rex ones on for several months with no issues. Im not scratching my swing arm anymore either. I can't give you a measurement today I rode the other bike and Im working 24 at fire station. I will get yall some tom. | ||
| Blake |
Intended or no, Trolling the market on BadWeB for a friend or any non-sponsor is a blatant violation of the BadWeB Terms of Use. Please avoid that. Keith at DHM has offered to look at producing the subject swingarm spools. DHM is a BadWeB sponsor. The honorable approach is to focus efforts in that direction. | ||
| Avc8130 |
So basically we have to continue scratching our swingarms because the sponsor has not made a product (that already exists from MANY commercial sources) yet? If my post was in violation, I apologize. I was merely mentioning that one non-sponsor was significantly cheaper than another non-sponsor. I even posted earlier on that I would be interested in buying a set from DHM (provided their price was competitive). ac (Message edited by avc8130 on November 30, 2009) (Message edited by avc8130 on November 30, 2009) | ||
| Sl33py |
I'd love to support DHM if they get something made that is competitive. As always - a bit late on the "policing". As they are looking to produce something, i think it's a bit ridiculous to "focus efforts" in that direction - ie ask folks to wait. If someone who is a sponsor has something existing that meets the current need - great. But asking folks who are looking for a solution to wait... a bit much IMO. Since i am not chomping on the bit to put on a new set of spools, i personally will probably wait to see what DHM produces, but definitely not just because it's the "honorable approach". I'll do it because they make fantastic products and I would trust Keith's products over others on my bike. let the  begin...hehehe. | ||
| 1324 |
Let me get this straight. From the Badweb terms of use: Absent permission from a board custodian, I will refrain entirely from the promotion and/or marketing of commercial merchandise or other similar/competing web sites. Who exactly has promoted or marketed commercial merchandise? If you do not wish any user to post a picture, reference, review, etc. of a particular product, INCLUDING a sponsor, then re-write the terms to state this. As it is currently written, there shall be no promotion of any commercial merchandise. Perhaps the terms of use should add the words "...with the exception of a sponsor". Everyone who posted on this tread has been courteous and respectful of Keith. If you'll notice, several people including myself have offered assistance in the way of pictures, dimensions, and physical parts for R&D. If this collaboration isn't allowed, you need to state this. However, limiting this type of activity can only be construed as a direct attempt to limit productivity. Collaboration is key to keeping our machines running, and part of this work involves benchmarking of current off the shelf parts available to everyone. This board is a wealth of information, fed by our excellent sponsors who are in turn fed by US, the users of this board. Please do not thwart productive activity. We can all agree that the future of Buell is uncertain in the least, and we are ALL passionate about these machines. Cooperation will allow each of us to keep our machines running. | ||
| Gotlime |
It seems the only safe bet is not to mention any product or service that is not sold by a sponsor.  | ||
| Freight_dog |
That really limits the usefulness of a forum. No?  | ||
| Sl33py |
As DHM seems to be looking into this solution BECAUSE of this thread - wouldn't that also hurt the sponsors? Seems like a bit of leeway and hands off non-blatant violations would be the best course. Everyone wins. Forcing the "must be routed to sponsor" at all times is dumb. Sponsors need to be proactive and competitive as well. Still looking to see any sponsors ads for Cyber Monday deals... Plenty in my inbox, but none here. Maybe BadWeb should invest in an upgrade to the board that can support the vendors better... | ||
| F_skinner |
As DHM seems to be looking into this solution BECAUSE of this thread - wouldn't that also hurt the sponsors? DHM is a Sponsor. Who exactly has promoted or marketed commercial merchandise? Marketing is a very broad term and by asking what the interest is, is marketing to some extent. At least that is my thought, I could be wrong. Everyone who posted on this thread has been courteous and respectful of Keith. Yes and it is refreshing and a lot better than it usually goes. All good questions in a civil manner. Imagine if you were a sponsor of this site, which means you pay money to advertise here, talk about your products and offer advice on said products. If we were all free to drum up business for a non-sponsor then why would someone keep being a sponsor on this site. The BadWeb is a business with operating cost, the sponsors pay for that cost. I think I have violated this rule in the past as well and now I just put myself in the position of the sponsor. If said thread discussion would not loose current or future business for me then I think it would be ok. That really limits the usefulness of a forum. Not at all. It may limit your usefulness if that is all you want to get out of it. The BadWeb despite its faults is still the best site for and about Buells and Buell riders. It has been my experience that I get more out of it than I put into it. In the early days it was rare to see ANY dealership and or company support Buell at all. For that reason I try to give all the business I can to the sponsors of this site that, by being a sponsor, show a level of dedication were others have not. I try to support the people and business that supported me in the past. I am not a Sponsor or a Custodian so all of this is just my opinion. I think everyone wants to do the right thing but if you are like me I have to go back and read the rules every now and again. I hope DHM comes up with something, they are top notch in my book. If they were working on something prior to this thread then great and if you all got the ball rolling then great too. Ride safe everyone. Frank | ||
| Sl33py |
I know DHM is a sponsor. Had we not begun this thread (as it's against terms apparently) - one of our sponsors may not be producing spools for us to purchase! So there is a value in open discussion - agreed? And people should feel obligated to support sponsors as they support us - also agreed! BUT not necessarily forced to only discuss sponsor products... that hurts both sponsors and the community. Sponsors should invest their time, like DHM is doing here, on providing a competitive product for us to buy. | ||
| F_skinner |
I do not think discussing other products from non-sponsors has ever been a problem. I do not think that is what Blake was talking about. I must admit that I had to go to the first thread again just to re-read it. It looks like marketing to me but I am just an engineer so I do not know for sure. While I do not think any malice was intended I think it is important to preserve the integrity of the BadWeb. I noticed AC posted to the DHM thread and I think that is the right thing to do. Again, that is just my opinion. Thanks for the civil discussion. It is getting rare, agreed?  | ||
| Avc8130 |
I am an engineer also and I don't see ANY marketing here. I see bike owners discussing commercially available products. THEN I see a sponsor jumping in and offering to start producing a competing product. THEN I see Badwebbers jumping to support his effort offering to take measurements, doing market research to help him price the product, even offering to send him stock components for comparison. This thread REALLY looks like a typical engineering/product development discussion. ac | ||
| Fmaxwell |
@F_skinner: Imagine if you were a sponsor of this site, which means you pay money to advertise here, talk about your products and offer advice on said products. If we were all free to drum up business for a non-sponsor then why would someone keep being a sponsor on this site." Why would a company buy banner ads on Google when competing firms kept turning up in search results? Oh, wait. That's exactly what happens The sponsors should be paying for eye-catching banner ads, dedicated forums in which they can market to BadWeb customers, and the ability to promote their businesses and products in the forums. The sponsors should not be paying for BadWeb Custodians to censor member discussions to prevent the free exchange of information about products, goods, and services (whether positive or negative). "The BadWeb is a business with operating cost, the sponsors pay for that cost." BadWeb is also a profit-making venture by Blake. As someone who hosts multiple domains on a business Internet connection, I am very confident in saying that BadWeb is very comfortably bringing in much more than the costs for hosting, software, bandwidth, etc. Positive comments posted by satisfied customers, for which the customers receive no compensation, do not constitute "marketing" or "promotion." I've never, outside of this forum, seen a definition of marketing or promotion that included people posting online about products and businesses in which they have no financial interest. | ||
| P_squared |
BadWeb is also a profit-making venture by Blake. As someone who hosts multiple domains on a business Internet connection, I am very confident in saying that BadWeb is very comfortably bringing in much more than the costs for hosting, software, bandwidth, etc. He's been known to cut checks to Buell racers with those "profits" too. Be careful with the generalizations without knowing all the facts/details. I'm pretty sure the "profit" from BWB isn't enough to keep him having to work a day job. | ||
| Freight_dog |
I do have the DHM Signature Stealth fork sliders. I absolutely love them, they are functional and look great. They also have exactly the same finish as my Vortex spools. I am probably going to supplement my swingarm protection with Dark Horse rear axle sliders. I have a suggestion. I own an '09, but with so many '08's out there, I would like to see development of a swingarm spool solution for them. I forget where, but I saw that someone drilled their swinger and beveled a slider so that it fit parallel to the axle. I know drilling the swingarm is not an optimal solution but if I had an '08 and someone came out with a good strong swingarm spool, I would definitely be buying, so long as I could find someone to do the machine work and welding. | ||
| Avc8130 |
I know I have seen a weld on spool kit before. I don't think it was the best idea either. Welding winds up heat treating that area of the swingarm. This could create localized portions of different metallurgical properties. This could be MUCH worse than drilling the holes. Food for thought. I looked extensively at the 08 swingarm. If you want spools, holes or welds will be necessary. It is up to DHM if they feel their is a market, but I would rather drill (and already have) than weld. ac | ||
| Fmaxwell |
@P_squared "Be careful with the generalizations without knowing all the facts/details." That wasn't a generalization. It was a comment on what it costs to run a web site from the standpoint of "hosting, software, bandwidth, etc.". What he does with the profits is not a matter that I claim to know anything about. "I'm pretty sure the "profit" from BWB isn't enough to keep him having to work a day job." I never suggested (or believed) that it was. | ||
| Skully |
All, Thank you VERY much for your feedback, photos, and offers to send spools to me. It's awesome to be a part of the Buell community and BadWeB. After seeing Dean and Froggy's excellent photos and reading others concerns, it is my opinion that bolting a true spool slider to the factory supplied bosses is risking damage to the swing arm in a crash. Note how compact the OEM spool is. My recommendation is to see if we can improve on the OEM spool design to reduce/eliminate the chance for scratching the swing arm when a wheel stand is used for maintenance and then provide crash protection with axle sliders. DHM already has axle sliders designed specifically for the 1125. That being said, if my suggestion meets the majority's approval but you had rather see a different axle slider design, we can look at that too. Let me know if this is the desired direction. Thank you, Keith | ||
| Fmaxwell |
I recommend looking into Delrin or SS spools. Aluminum grabs asphalt almost as tenaciously as racing slicks do and that would tend to maximize stresses against the swing arm bosses in a crash. Generally, I agree with Skully's recommendation but would add a suggestion to groove the axle sliders like spools so that they can serve as lifting spools when the back wheel is not coming off of the bike. | ||
| Skully |
Fmaxwell - we have those sliders now:  Are there improvements to these that 1125 owners would like to see? Keith | ||
| Skully |
BTW, you may want to choose the material based on finish options. I can anodize aluminum but not stainless steel. If the rider uses axle sliders for protection and the lift spools are for lifting only, then it seems that aluminum could be an option. Keith | ||
| Avc8130 |
Keith, I would LOVE to see a set of Ecosliders for the 1125. I have spools on both of my bikes, but I would like a CHEAP set of axle sliders. I see you make them for the XB and I see you will be offering them for the 1125 in another thread. I will be purchasing them when available. As far as spools go, I am not sure there is much money in it for you. It seems many companies already make them so the market is competitive. They are easy turned parts so it MIGHT be worth it because people would buy them and combine them with slider orders to save shipping. How about a slightly different marketing strategy? Maybe you could offer "packages" with small discounts. Front and rear sliders with a set of spools (2009). Front and rear sliders (2008). If your margins are too tight, I would believe it. ac | ||
| D_adams |
It all depends on the equipment you use to make them. If you do each one manually on a lathe, then it's expensive, based on time and materials. Sure, you can knock out 4-5 sets per hour if you really get busy with it, but if you've got an automatic turrett lathe, then you can poop out quite a few parts per minute. Multiply that by the number of machines/operators available and you can mass produce them in quantity. The material cost won't really change a lot, except for market conditions affecting metals, unless you buy it in massive quantities. Also, none of the 09/10 spools look like they would hold up in a crash. The button isn't really large enough to do anything, the bolt holding it will only support so much weight before breaking (not sure of the shear strength of a 6 mm bolt, but it's not too much, especially on impact) and then the swingarm itself won't really take that much abuse before breaking, even if you beefed up everything else, such as a larger spool and bolt. The casting and location for the stock spools simply wouldn't hold up under a heavy load shock. Just guessing here, but maybe that's why Buell chose to use such a small spool? What's the bolt made of? Soft steel, maybe aluminum bolts? Something that will snap off before damaging the boss it screws into? More food for thought... | ||
| Blake |
The only issue of concern was the opening post and it's author's continued follow-up asking for interest in a group buy for a non-sponsor and friend of the author. He now understands the issue and will post no further marketing/advertising on behalf of a non-sponsor. Being able to conduct market research, as the thread author was doing, is one of the most valuable privileges that is strictly reserved for our sponsors, the Buell enthusiasts who fund the ongoing operation and maintenance of the Buell forum here. To clarify further: If anyone of us would like to discuss possible new products/ideas for our Buell motorcycles, we are PERFECTLY free and encouraged to do so here. What is unacceptable is to do so while seeking possible business for a non-sponsor. See the difference? One is discussing ideas and/or possible new products and general market research on behalf of ALL interested Buell owners; the other is market research for a specific non-sponsor. One is okay. The other is absolutely unacceptable. Bringing to light in the context of an ongoing discussion a related product that you've purchased and are offering critique of, like this post by 1324 is perfectly acceptable and also very much encouraged. We ALL want to learn about products, good or bad, from each other, sponsors or no. The problem arises when information turns more towards advertisement/marketing. Opening a thread with an advertisement or inquiry for a "group buy" from a non-sponsor is a problem. If you remain confused about the difference, and the terms of use which you agreed to honor when registering on the BadWeB forum, please contact me offline and I'll try to further clarify the issue. Blake - BadWeB Custodian (Message edited by blake on December 01, 2009) | ||
| Blake |
"I recommend looking into Delrin or SS spools. Aluminum grabs asphalt almost as tenaciously as racing slicks do" That is absolutely nonsense, false, pure baloney, idiotic. Imagine a motorcycle with aluminum tires. LOL! The internet as always suffers its share of idiots. I'm gratified that BadWeB has remained ahead of the curve in identifying them for all to see. | ||
| Avc8130 |
Blake, On the supermoto boards it has been claimed that aluminum sliders have flipped bikes over (granted they are MUCH lighter) while sliding. I have not witnessed this personally, so I cannot comment firsthand. I would follow with I would buy a delrin slider before an aluminum one. Just personal preference. ac |
