| Author | Message | ||
     Mikef5000 |
So, having Strada's and no plan to change them for knobbies any time soon... It's not really a serious question... but after searching for more dirt roads, I came across looking at fire roads. Then I found that 'all motorcycles on fire/forestry roads must have an approved spark arrestor". So I began looking at them out of curiosity. What I found is plenty of aftermarket 'clamp-on' or 'weld-on' jobbies like this:  Any of you off-roady type buellers have any experience in this regard? I want to be able to go on fire roads next year! | ||
| Idaho_buelly |
I believe it has to be stamped on the muffler "US FORESTRY APPROVED"..This is just what I know from dirt bike stuff..? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I'm pretty sure the huge stock muffler would arrest any spark. I bet they won't bat an eyelash if your bike is quiet and stock. EPA is tougher than the I think that rule comes from older primitive dirtbikes. If your bike is running poorly enough to set fire to a forest, I would suggest getting another bike  | ||
| Rotorhead |
Any DOT legal muffler meets the spark arrestor functions BUT the rules for motorcycle and ATV vehicle use on forest service roads do state that the pipe has to have a stamp US forestry approved. There is no distinction between street legal motorcycles and off road motorcycles. Ask the ranger that is thinking about giving you a ticket for not having the stamp to show you the stamp on the vehicle they are driving. I bet you'll get the ticket for sure. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
I did a bunch of googling before I posted here. The general consensus on the interweb is: All OEM car mufflers are exempt from spark arrestor laws. NO OEM motorcycle mufflers are exempt unless stamped USFS approved. Punishment for using a non-USFS approaved muffler is extreme; something like $2500 and impounded bike. So, I agree with most of you, a quiet perfectly running newer bike, with a huge OEM muffler should be fine, but I don't want to have to try to explain that to some forest ranger with a pine cone up his rear, pointing at my exhaust tip thats 5" off the ground and pointing down. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
WOW. That is a real eye-opener! Scary stuff. So this applies to all national parks? | ||
| Glen |
I have been stopped several times on dirtbikes to be checked for a s/a. they have no clue if the muffler on your bike is stock or not, they dont care. they will ask you if you have a S/A, then they look for the stamp. if you have the stamp, well then they might sound check ya just for good measure. if you dont have the stamp, they will produce a feeler, i had a CO pick up a stick once, and they run it into your tailpipe, if it dont run into a screen or somthing within a few inches, yer busted. the problem nowadays is that some aftermarket mufflers do not come stamped from the factory, because the spark arrestor feature is an option. so you end up with a little sticker on the can that peels off, as long as its in there they will find it.theres also a slip on version from cobra that ive used before. http://www.monkeybuttparts.com/pk4/store.pl?view_p roduct=529 | ||
| Thegibbon |
It doesn't apply to all national parks. But I don't think anyone's riding trails through Yosemite either. Kind of defeats the purpose. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
It doesn't apply to standard national forest roads. Like County roads or state routes that go through a national forest. It only applies to fire roads, or logging roads. That's my understanding at least. Also, any state park "dirt bike/atv trails" require one. That Cobra looks like the way to go. Comes in different diameters, and you can just slap it on there when you get to the roads that need it. Thanks! | ||
| Mikef5000 |
BUMMER! I went to measure my muffler outlet this afternoon, and found it will be impossible to bolt anything onto the factory muffler tip. Anything that sticks out a mere half an inch past the OEM tip will contact the tire. Options will be: 1) cut the muffler tip so it's pointing to the side, instead of straight back (at the tire). 2) add an internal spark arrestor:  | ||
| Glen |
that screen there looks like the ticket. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
I just hate paying money for that thing. It looks like something I can make in about ten minutes. | ||
| Glen |
Mike you probably could, i have made my own a few times, just be sure to use a good screen that'll take the heat. you dont want to simulate the mantles on a propane lantern lol. be sure to make it removable as it will collect any crap that comes through the muffler and eventually start restricting airflow. i made a permanent one once and had to use map gas to burn the spooge off as i couldnt get a wire brush in there, PITA. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Mine will most definitely be removable, as I will only put it on when I go to roads that require it. I'm thinking about just making it fold over the muffler tip, then just use a hose clamp around the outside of the muffler tip with the mesh under it. I'll use a piece of metal rod 'sewn' into the mesh in the 'cone' section so it can't blow 'inside out' (when the cone it pointing out the the tip instead of down in. It makes sense in my head. | ||
| Red_chili |
When I cut open the stock XB muffler and gutted it to make my own, I 1) wanted something quieter than a Drummer or SpecOps (not that there is ANYTHING wrong with them... just too loud for me) and 2) wanted to cover the spark arrestor thing I used a SuperTrapp weld on unit and covered both bases. Tunable, reasonably quiet without being mouse-like (stocker), light, and it fits great (easy enough to do when you are building the muffler anyway LOL). There are pix posted here somewhere. On ADVRider as well. Works really well. And, of course... USFS approved. Most rangers with whom I deal, and work with (Land Use issues in my 4x4 club) are decent and fair people, and possessed of common sense. They generally stick something up the muffler (say, at club runs) and expect to run into a screen or something, if the muffler is not stock. That is about the extent of it from what I have observed. They are after the goal of preventing a forest fire, not nailing someone on a technicality. Not that there isn't someone who does otherwise, with your name and number in his destiny.  (Message edited by Red_Chili on November 17, 2009) | ||
| Buewulf |
I went to this circus a while back. Per the Forestry Service, it is the arrestor itself that must be approved by the FS. The presence of a sticker/stamp is apparently not necessary as they often become illegible anyway, but it does need to be on the approved list. That is often misunderstood by those with the ticket book, and frankly, I received mixed answers on this when trying to get this sorted. And when bureaucrats are in doubt, they fine; so walk through that gray area at your own risk. Permissible spark arresters must conform to SAE Standard J335 or USDA Forest Service Specification 5100-1 and have the manufacturer's name or logo on the unit with the model number. Now, this is another gray area, but technically it is agreed by most of the bureaucrats questioned that the arrester must be tested with the system it is to be used on to qualify. In other words, if it wasn't tested on the Buell Rustomatic, it isn't legit when used on the Buell Rustomatic. The arrestor must be approved to work with muffler brand X model number X. That was a really wordy way of saying you are SOL from what I had learned. That said, my experience with rangers is that they usually just check to see if the arrester is there and that it has a method for removing the captured carbon. The Buell muffler definitely looks out of place and may get a bit more scrutiny though. The other option is to get a bolt-on arrestor, pay the FS $1700 to test it plus $400 for not being the OEM for the muffler plus another $400 for not being the OEM of the arrestor. That will apparently make you good with the Lord. Here is the FS's list of all those who have paid the Piper: http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/programs/fire/spark/PDF_F iles/GP_SAG2007.pdf | ||
| Buewulf |
I used a SuperTrapp weld on unit and covered both bases. Tunable, reasonably quiet without being mouse-like (stocker), light, and it fits great (easy enough to do when you are building the muffler anyway LOL). Do you know if that flies with the USFS? I did a lot of calling with them in the past about a different bike, and they said that it kinda-sorta doesn't work that way (see my earlier post). I'd be very interested in having something like that done if the FS is cool with it. | ||
| Glen |
if you wanted to get serious, you could cut off the stock tailpipe, then buy somthing like the cobra that i posted, cut off the slip over section and weld it on in place of the stock tailpipe.usfsa stamp facing up of course. theres no way to mess with you at that point. that cobra unit is approved as a "universal" unit so anything you put it on is good to go. exposed hoseclamps and obvious jerry rigging is a for sure way to get braced. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Ah! I didn't realize the cobra unit was stamped USFS APPROVED. Problem is once you weld it, there's no way to clean it out. Cutting the factory tip down and clamping that Cobra on there, with the USFS APPROVED facing up may be the best bet. It won't be as solid or guaranteed as welding, but I don't want it on there all the time anyway. Just the hand full of times a year I'll need it. |
