| Author | Message | ||
     Xbrad9r |
at what point (if they haven't already) will someone at HD look in the mirror and see that their nose is gone. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I hate this roller coaster ride!! I'm up (thinking Buell will build bikes again)... I'm down... (They haven't started yet) I'm pissed! I wonder how smooth the parts are gonna flow for the next 7 years..... | ||
| Midknyte |
Surely Buells 200 year plan did not require or rely on 174 more years of stewardship by HD anyway? | ||
| Ducbsa |
From Dale Frank's blog: He is reputed to be abrasive and difficult to work with by many H-D executives. When I see that, it makes me think that the complaining group is heavily invested in the status quo. | ||
| Wesman |
Who "He" ? | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Who "He" ? Erik | ||
| Red_chili |
Of course he is. He is a company owner, an entrepreneur, one who risks, one who creates, one who is a slave to his own vision rather than a novice's ill-informed directive. He builds motorcycles. He follows his own designs. Secondarily, he runs a business but understands that 'taking care of business' is best served not by trying to run a business but by making a vision tangible. Or in other words... follow your passion. The novices are understandably threatened, and EB is understandably impatient with them. They undoubtedly have not had any passion for years... if ever. (And yes, you can read that in multiple ways!) Geniuses can be quite hard to work with, especially if 'work with' = 'fall in line, son'. Whew. That felt good.  Obviously I know none of this first hand, but I have seen the movie before. I am sick and tired of "that's business" and "it was a business decision" being the end of the discussion. Trying to run a business is like trying to feel in love, from what I have observed at least. The focus is on the wrong thing. Most of the great companies eventually devolve into "running a business"*. Or they reinvent themselves. Pick one. *def.: become nothing more than an operations exercise | ||
| Red_chili |
FWIW... I am seeing the same thing happen at Toyota. Those who set the standard in manufacturing, who made Kai-Zen work, who listened to the lowest employee when looking for ideas because they - not management - had the wisdom, those who set new directions and saw business opportunities before others did... are now trying to follow Ford. Really. And the engineers and designers who know better (or should) are slaves to the conservative opinions in Tokyo. Creativity need not apply. Boldness will be dismissed. Risk shall be minimized, not taken. Domo arigato. Seen the quality trend for Toyota lately? They will achieve the GM position in more ways than one. But "that's business". And this I DO know first hand. Gee that rant felt good too! :-D | ||
| Iamarchangel |
Kaizen is nothing more than 1930's Taylorism translated into 1950's Japanese and spewed back to a naive America. And that is one very major reason why NA is in the mess it is in. This is a digression. It does not seem like HD used any strategy at all. It does look like EB had his own unique take on it. I was interested in following that part of his work but there wasn't much information and then we run out of time. | ||
| Court |
>>>The novices are understandably threatened, and EB is understandably impatient with them. That's inaccurate. Erik, even while intense and intensely focused, is a delight to work with. He's demanding, he's responsible and he's committed. He expects the same. Buell has perhaps the flattest organization structure I've ever seen. I've seen cub engineers, with less than 30 days, walk into Erik's office and say "I think I have a better way to do it". I've seen at least two folks stand up in meetings screaming at Erik that he was wrong. That'd bother some folks . . . but to Erik the intensity of a person with that strong of an opinion, willing to back it up . . is like a narcotic. What would offend some fuels him. That thinking is embraced and a person like that, at Buell, is seen as wonderful for their commitment to improving the output of THE TEAM. No so at Harley-Davidson, arguably the home of "not invented here". At Harley-Davidson a "better idea" is most often viewed as an affront, an effort to make the person whose idea is in current use look bad. It's seen not as "better" or as "improvement" but rather than proof that the person who did the current iteration screwed up. If you want to see what I mean . . . ask a couple of the folks at Harley-Davidson what they think about Buell winning the AMA Championship. Try asking some of the guys who spent $50,000,000. . 10 years and declared it couldn't be done with a V-Twin. Erik is not on their Xmas card list. Years ago . . when Erik was presenting engineering data (not opinions) about why the fuel HAD to be in the frame to free of the volume required for an air box to fill the cylinders. . . did they consider the idea? No, they saw it as an attack on their tube frame and went merrily along stumbling and falling on their collective faces and hoping that hiring Scott Russell would somehow obviate their engineering shortcomings induced by corporate paralysis. It'd be . . . perhaps . . fun to share with folks the response that Dave and I got from Harley-Davidson when we wrote them telling them we were thinking about writing a book about Buell. It was a little bit funny. I am ordinarily the one to go off too quick and react without thinking and Dave has, for 20+ years, been Buell's "calm" face . . Dave called me screaming, yelling, threatening to drive his Citroen through the gate at Juneau and was generally inconsolable. I . . of course . . stirred him up. It was fun to watch. I've worked with Erik and I have over 100 friends who have. Telling was what the reporter who appeared at the Buell home on October 15 had to say. . . . Erik's wife was home and there was a knock at the door . . . the guy politely introduced himself and asked if Erik was home. When she told him no . . he said "can you tell him something for me?". He went on to recount how he'd been to the plant . . . encountered the secure perimeter of HD Media reps who wouldn't let anyone in (I called and the phones were locked down as well) . . and so they stood out front. As employees began coming out for lunch they interviewed them off property. The guy told Mrs. Buell . . . I've been a reporter in Milwaukee for years and have covered my share of plant closings. Then he went on to share his amazement that every person he'd talked to had nothing but praise for Erik, Jon, Buell Motorcycle and told how they loved their jobs and their friends. The guy said . . "this is NOT what we are used to hearing at plant closings". I'll sum it up. If you are an ••••••• . . . Erik Buell is a difficult person to work with. I you are honest, hard working, curious and a team player . . . you can screw almost anything up (I should know) and count on him to be there all night and on the weekend to help you fix it. That's a fact. | ||
| Jaimec |
Surely they weren't COMPLETELY oblivious of Ducati's domination of AMA Superbike in the early 90's? Or even World Superbike TODAY?? | ||
| Davegess |
+10 to Court's post. Lots of backstabbing involved IMHO. | ||
| Midknyte |
Surely they weren't COMPLETELY oblivious of Ducati's domination of AMA Superbike... Some people are capable of only seeing/comprehending/believing what they want to. | ||
| Dnlink |
I think he was referring to the Cast Iron air cooled tractor motors that they were tying to use. | ||
| Court |
I'm on the verge of sharing some stories I shouldn't . . . I'm going to bite my tongue . . sit on my hands and just say. I've known Erik Buell for a long time. I've seen him laugh, cry, happy, mad, love and hate . . the full gamut of emotions. I've worked for him, around him and I know his family . . I've seen him be a friend, boss, husband and father in the same day. The guy continues to amaze me. He right up there with my late Father (who always admired and enjoyed visiting with Erik) in his ability to have somebody shit on his parade and stay focused. I've seen Erik really mad . . . . . he's the embodiment of the person who attacks the problem, not the person. I've seen things terribly screwed up and never once have I seen him attack the responsible individual. I've been accused of blind admiration . . . but I've been around a long time, come from a family of successful businessmen and it's not blind . . . Erik, and those of you who have met him can attest to this, is as genuine as it gets. He's as good a husband and father as he is an engineer . . . like me, he's lucky to have kids and a wife who are smarter than he is. Some folks have done some REALLY nasty things. I'm going to save you the stories . . . . but some of you read the story the other day about the dog that was found . . . . still alive . . with it's snout and legs duct taped. . . . that'll pretty much give you a flavor for a couple of the things that Erik's had to deal with over the years. I couldn't have done it. I know what these same people did to me over the years . . . the call I got on Christmas night in 1997 and the hour of being called names . . . the things Mike Hilman said about me and the they way they'd laugh at my test reports and insult Erik for being so foolish as to send an owner out on a bike and tell him to "just ride the motorcycle". I reported problems with isolators . . they laughed . . . called in from Perry, OK in a frigid winter night to report a failed side stand . . . I was called an "anecdotal alarmist" . . . . I just kept riding. Erik taught me to seek the truth, be honest and do my best. He kept me focused and out of a lot of fights. I always wish I could have protected him like he protected me. I used to almost cry . . . . some of you will never know how mean some people have been to him. "Abrasive" the assholes now call him. Like I said . . . I'll forego the details. But it does anger me to see the same guy who ditched the banquet to stay in the parking lot and work on an owners broken S2 until if was fixed . . while the HD execs walked away and told him to "call the dealer Monday". Erik's like that. It does, I confess, bother me to see these guys do some of the things they have recently done and dismiss all Buell owners as stupid "non-HD" owners too complacent to act . . . I'm like that.  | ||
| Blake |
Thank you for saying all that Court! It needs to be said more often. | ||
| Rainman |
The man took the time to send me a couple of messages on facebook and even apologize for spelling my name wrong. That says a lot. Riding my Blast in the Blue Ridge mountains this afternoon says even more. There's a lot of engineering in that little, cast-off bike. I'm looking forward to the next iteration. | ||
| Moxnix |
I was thinking earlier about GM back about 40-plus years ago, when they wanted to design new models. As I recall, they turned some important projects over to very young engineers and had great success. Why? The younger ones were not indoctrinated into the "system" and didn't know they couldn't do it. True, the old guard couldn't, mostly because they sat around saying, "you can't do THAT." Shades of the Milwaukee mindset. Mr. Buell is one of the rare ones. Thinks how to leave the old ideas behind and develop what works. I've always said Buell is a significant motorcycle. It's because of the innovation. Court and Dave's next book, if it was just anecdotes, would be a great read. By the way, when the smoke clears, I wonder how many business school MBA programs will us this utter debacle as a case study . . . | ||
| F_skinner |
Court, that was a real nice post and like Blake said it needs to be said more often. It is the best post I have read in a long time. I am sure Erik Buell is happy to call you a friend as I am. As you, Elvis and others work toward what now seems like an impossible goal I wish you all the best of luck and determination to accomplish what I am sure will be a resounding success. I am glad I will be able to witness what is surely going to be a part of what is already a rich history. I will not be able to access the Internet much in the months to come (think sabbatical) but will try to check in from time to time to see what is going on. See you in June if not sooner. Frank | ||
| Jaimec |
The first time I saw Erik (I can't say I "met" him at the time, because I was too shy to just walk up to him) was at one of Reg's Battletrax events in Daytona Beach. My friend Steff was there with her Thunderbolt and she was having a problem with the way the bike was handling. Unlike me, she had no problem walking right up to Erik to discuss the problem with him. The next thing I knew, there was Erik Buell, the founder of the company that bore his name, on the ground digging into Steff's bike. Next, he grabbed one of the helmets (Florida didn't have a helmet law, but Reg required you to wear one when competing in Battletrax so he had an assortment of "loaners" available) and took off on her bike. He came back about ten minutes later and told her that her steering bearings were shot, and if she got them replaced she'd be back in business. You have no idea what an impression that made on me. I had just recently acquired my first Buell (a 2000 M2 Cyclone) and seeing the founder of the company who built that bike show that much interest in one of the people who rode his bikes, well... I think that made me a fan for life. It was only later that I heard about the ORIGINAL "BRAG" and I can fully picture Erik calling his customers to personally talk about their experiences with his designs. Only had that happen to me one time, and it was with Andy Goldfine of Aerostich. I guess that's why to this day I ride Buells, and wear Aerostich clothing when I do! | ||
| Chadhargis |
Hearing things like this is why I have such great respect and admiration for Erik. I have worked for my company for five and a half years. I am the IT Manager for the company and have to do my fair share of pencil pushing and report reading. Not my forte, but it's part of the job. But I never got too big a head that I couldn't help an end user (my customers) with an issue, however small. Now that my company has been bought out, I'm being told that I'm not allowed to help my customers anymore. I'm supposed to sit on endless conference calls, read stupid reports generated from fudged statistics, and tell my "customers" that I can't help them...they need to call the help desk where they will have to wade through several levels of incompetent goobers over several hours or days until they finally get the 15 minute issue fixed. Corporate inefficiency and red tape put in place to justify the salaries of people who do nothing productive is something I can't stand. I'd loved to have had the opportunity to work for Erik. It appears he and I think a lot alike. | ||
| Madgaz |
This is the type of stuff that legends are made of. Court, there is much you do tell us and we are well aware that there is much more that one day can be told. I will buy that book when you get around to it. Oh, and it needs to include many of those stories you say you will tell some other time. The time would be perfect when Buell motorcycles (more than likely by another name) are rolling off the production line again. MadGaz | ||
| Mndwgz |
What he said ^  | ||
| Homer007 |
Hmm.. The 70 million to close Buell sounds intriguing. Is HD using the closing of Buell as a cost center to hide further losses from their core HD business? | ||
| Midknyte |
Now why would they go and do a dishonest thing like that? | ||
| Xbrad9r |
what is the symbol for Harley stock??? ENRON??? | ||
| Jammin_joules |
Court, what a great thread. I will surely read it again as it is chock full of tidbits and insights. Frank, where you going for months? Too cold to ride the Uly in the mountains, maybe track school with the Loki? | ||
| Buellerxt |
Eric sounds like a special guy and a good man. Very cool. I sure wish him well. | ||
| Conchop |
This is the best thread yet. All of us are upset at the decision to close the Buell factory. It is somehow un-American. It is what it is. The dollar votes. I would like to see the Buell factory reopened. I would like to see Americans return to work in factories where they take great pride in what they build and everyone makes money and wins. I would like to see a dealership base that was prosperous and a great place to hang out. HD and their business plan - past and present - has proven itself short sighted. None of us are happy with them. However, it is up to the consumer to keep an American in a good paying job with benefits. If the corporate leaders choose to move it to India or China, what can we do???? It is a self fulfilling prophecy and a race to the bottom of the barrel while the top takes all the cream. Keep an American in a job. A lot of other things will fall right into place. The elves need a job. It will take real corporate leadership, insight, and luck to pull off a resurrection of the factory. But buying American is more than just trying to buy an American made bike. It a whole different way to achieve sustainability and quality. Despite the management team and their country of origin, we need to support an American worker who has a job similar to the Buell factory. Bring the jobs back, support quality, sustainability will follow, and eventually we will have full and gainful employment. We can support profitable motorcycle corporations such as BMC if we vote properly with our dollars. | ||
| Swampy |
Meeting a few of the Buell factory workers at the Last Ride, I was really impressed at how much pride they had in the work that they performed, they knew the work well, were passionate about the product and what they were doing, and they could tell you how they rode Buells, they actually knew what we know about the bikes and how they moved them! |
