| Author |
Message |
    
Rah7777777
| | Posted on Sunday, October 25, 2009 - 10:00 pm: | 
|
Hello all, think the low RPM misfire/1 cylinder issue was resolved with new coil/wires..
NOW.....
I can ride around with light and medium throttle with NO problems all the way to redline BUT as soon as I go heavy throttle or twist all the way, she falls flat on her face.
Any RPM and gear. But only with a load ( won't do it free-rev'ing )
every time she will do exactly the same...spit sputter, RPM's stay exactly the same and speed starts dropping, let off and give it light/medium throttle and all is A-okay.
This started after a simple coil and wires install.
Put the original coil back in for testing, still did it.
both wires ohm out at 2.2K ohms.
Both coils secondary's ohm out at 7.1k
I did find a wire that was shorted on the vehicle speed sensor (VSS) according to the manual it goes straight to the ECM, fixed that but didnt solve anything.
Reloaded a past eeprom file to make sure it wasnt that...still no go.
im lost, she really acts like a plug is not gapped right, but both are at 35. and are fairly new.
To add, its rich, I pulled both plugs and they are black oily....
any thoughts??
THANKS!!!!!!
-Robert
(Message edited by rah7777777 on November 01, 2009) |
Sparky
| | Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 12:07 am: |
|
Well, let's see. You have an XB9 and you:
changed the exhaust headers for an XB12,
changed the throttle body for an XB12,
other posts say you have ECMSPY and you've changed the fuel and air maps.
Have you done a proper TPS reset and got nominal AFV readings?
Have you taken the bike out for about 10 miles at approx 3500 steady rpms?
You say the plugs look oily and rich. Do you have enough experience with modifyng fuel and air maps to recognize if you are helping or hurting a tuning situation? |
Rah7777777
| | Posted on Monday, October 26, 2009 - 01:44 pm: |
|
Internally stock 2003 XB9S
-XB12 ceramic coated header
-XB12 throttle body
-open air kit
-catch can
I've been working with Xopti on a tune.
Initially the AFV was 128, some adjustments later it is down to 105. Sometimes 95 but that's back and forth with the missing.
Honestly, I'm not a tuner and have little experience with it.
I'm going fully of Xoptis word that the XB12 parts would add a tad of power.
And for a while she ran just fine.
First time she acted up was in a heavy down pour.
I'm pretty sure the idle 1 cylinder only issue is gone with the new plug wires / coil.
But now, out of the blue RIGHT after installing the plug wires / coil it starts falling on her face w/ full throttle.
I have not rode for a bit at 3500 RPMs.
What does this do?
TPS reset is done and accurate according to ECM SPY.
If i ride easy for about an hour the plugs are nice and light brown. If I simply go 5 miles with heavy throttle ( while she's flopping on her face) they are dark black and oily ( obviously rich )
Thanks for your assistance!! |
Rah7777777
| | Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 10:07 am: |
|
My tune guy is checking over the map right now, thinks it might be in there, but I'm almost certain there is something else causing this.
I need to hook up the laptop and try to datalog a bit to see what it's doing. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 05:27 pm: |
|
IMHO, you are taking a big gamble on grenading your engine by road testing with those unknowns.
For one thing, in the hot rod car world, putting larger carbs and larger diameter exhaust headers on an otherwise stock mill usually results in a doggish performer off idle and up through the mid-range rpms until things start improving near the top end. This is because, for one thing, the diameter and length of the header pipes are designed for a certain amount of reversion -- exhaust pressure pulse bouncing back to the exhaust valve which if designed right can help push more fuel/air mixture into the combustion chamber. If pipes are designed wrong, the reversion can be off and actually push the fuel/air mixture out of the chamber, thus causing a flat spot in certain rpm ranges and no amount of mixture richening or leaning will cure this condition. This latter scenario may be what is happening with your setup during heavy throttle conditions.
Perhaps your tuner may be trying to setup your bike for racing in which a mid to top end rush is what he is hoping for as "adding a tad of power". I don't know.
Another thing, if the bore of the XB12 throttle body is larger than that of an XB9 it is going to pass air either slightly or significantly different at 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full throttle openings. How is that going to affect the fuel/air mixtures that the EFI only knows how to calibrate correctly according to the TPS signal at those throttle openings? I don't have a clue. I hope your Xopti tuner does though and doesn't ruin your motor in the process of finding out.
Don't take this the wrong way, but obviously, he doesn't know squat so far, otherwise you would be a happy camper and wouldn't be posting here looking for a second opinion.
I'm surprised that you don't know how to ride the bike to let the ECM learn the ambient conditions and normalize the AFV. Ride it at around 3500 rpms for about five miles uninterrupted. The ECM is running in closed loop mode during this time, operating off the O2 sensor and self-adjusting its close loop map which applies the AFV to the open loop mode which is mid to WFO throttle. |
Rotorhead1985
| | Posted on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 08:22 pm: |
|
I had a similar problem a few months back it turned out to be my engine temp sensor located in the middle of the rear head. I ordered one from American Sport Bike slaped it in and all is good.
What happend to my sensor is it was rubbing a little on the head causing the wire to loose contact and trip the skip spark over heated mode at 3k to 4k rpms under load and under WFO throttle.
These sensors go bad and cause all kinds of rideabilty problems.
(Message edited by rotorhead1985 on October 29, 2009) |
Rah7777777
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 11:06 am: |
|
Hmmm.. I would guess if it was the temp sensor, the fan would be on full blast, which I can't recall hearing it come on at all for the most part.
I didn't know 3500 was keeping it in closed loop.
I have riding at 2500 and easy for a while, but no straights that long around here. But if I can do 3500, I'll hop on the highway.
We will see.
Thanks for yalls help!
And I'm still waiting on word back from my tuner, I did take a chance with the mods and trust him on it.
I've heard too many good things about him from very creditable sources ( to me anyhow ).
But, we will see.
I might end up rotating the motor again and going back to all the stock stuff. But i hope I just get the bugs fixed and she runs well. |
Rotorhead1985
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 02:27 pm: |
|
Rah, check your e-mail. |
Rah7777777
| | Posted on Friday, October 30, 2009 - 02:53 pm: |
|
Got it and replied! Thank you for your time and help!! |
Rah7777777
| | Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 05:00 pm: |
|
well, I think she is fixed!!!
I removed the NGK iridium plugs (that didnt have very many miles on them, under 400 im sure)
And replaced them with the 10R12A harley plugs.
AS well, found the ignition switch fuse was loose.
key on, engine off the cluster and all the bikes power would shut off if you touched the fuse block, chased it to a loose connection on the fuse contact, squeezed the spade for better contact and solved that, you can wiggle that fuse block all over the place and everything stays on now!
Took her for a little ride and she ran great!
stayed heavy on the throttle for the majority of the ride and all is good now!!!!!!
Have a ride planned tomorrow, we will see how she goes!
Thanks for all your help everyone!
-Robert |
Rah7777777
| | Posted on Sunday, November 01, 2009 - 07:14 pm: |
|
well, shes back to screwing up!
rode about a total of 2 hours and she started falling flat on her face with heavy throttle again.
I think its in the map, ran fine around the city, hit the highway for 25-30 miles and then once off the highway (after a short stop) she started screwing up again.
So i think the ECM is learning on the highway ride and screwing it up somehow....
I did find a perfectly flat straight!
Kept it in 5th at a steady 3300 RPMs for just over 14 miles to help the ECM learn again....... didnt make a difference
thanks for all your help!
-Robert |
Sparky
| | Posted on Monday, November 02, 2009 - 02:31 am: |
|
When you took out the NGK plugs they were black and oily. Being black is understandably indicating rich but oily too is not good.
If you can, take out the last set of plugs and see what condition they are in. If they are black then the mixture can be worked on.
But it they are black and oily, perhaps there is a mechanical condition like poor piston ring sealing or worn intake valve guides that is fouling the plugs and needs to be addressed separately from the mixture tuning deal. |
Rah7777777
| | Posted on Friday, November 13, 2009 - 07:27 pm: |
|
well, pretty sure its in the mapping.
Ive been going back and fourth with my tune guy on some maps and its getting better slowly.
I'll get a new map from him, let the ECM learn and datalog some, send the files to him and he sends another map back.
still falls on her face but not nearly as bad as before.
Can't wait to get this fixed 100%
the plugs are mainly just black if I run heavy throttle at times they look "wet" but thats only if I run hard and pull straight in the garage and yank em out.
fingers are crossed.......either im getting used to it or it is infact getting better....pretty sure its getting better :-)
If im just light and medium throttling it around she runs top notch with an AFV of right at 100. |
Rah7777777
| | Posted on Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 02:23 pm: |
|
FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Swapped the throttle bodies out and shes back to normal.
went back with my stock 03 "9" throttle body and so far all is good!
So lesson learned for me......12 TB in a 9 is a no-go!
thanks! |
Greg_e
| | Posted on Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 03:41 pm: |
|
It probably works if the fuel map is set correctly, but if the injectors are different and flow a significantly larger amount of fuel, that could be the issue. It could also have been that the TB was not sealed properly to the heads. I vacuum leak at part throttle could cause the AFV to get all messed up since it is sucking in a lot of air past the throttle, then when you open it up the leak becomes more trivial since there is nothing blocking the path and now you are too heavily fueled to run. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 08:37 pm: |
|
I recall that the later XB9's use the same TB as the 12, but they also would be mapped properly and probably have the same FI system as the 12. |
Greg_e
| | Posted on Saturday, November 21, 2009 - 09:42 pm: |
|
The 03 9R is different from the 04 or 05 12 TB that I bought. Injectors are in a different location and the diameter might be different. Haven't done anything with that TB since it was to be for a different EFI system and I haven't gotten that far yet. |
|
Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) »
Archive through December 21, 2009 »
2003 XB9S falls flat on her face with heavy throttle....