| Author | Message | ||
     Howworkclutch |
Admittedly, I know nothing. So pardon my talking like a complete and total whackjob. I've been tweaking the suspension since getting the bike and so far I've been nothing but frustrated. It is too twitchy one minute, too sloppy the next. It doesn't help that I've never ever worked with an adjustable suspension. Today I realized there are indexing marks. Godamnitsomuch. I was about half a turn too far on everything. The rear shocks indexing mark can't be right though. I'd strip the screw if I tried to match it up. But thats ok cause I'm getting real close to a final solution. And here is what I discovered: if the front brake pulls to either side the suspension still isn't right. The effect is ever-so-slight. Don't expect it to drive off in some direction. But its there I swear. The last thing I did was let the rear preload out and increase the front compression dampening just a hair. The front brake started to pull a little left, instead of right. When I made my test pass the bike felt incredible. I came through the hairy turn at incredible speed and felt completely in control. I think it can get a little better though. I have some sidewalk chalk so I'm going to mark the asphalt in a few places so I always take the same line and do some more testing. But I have a feeling that all I really need to do is keep tuning out the slight twitch when breaking. I'm really digging this bike. | ||
| Chessm |
have you set the sag properly on the bike? | ||
| Ratbuell |
From what I've found on my bikes (and those I set up for customers) - the indexing marks aren't to be lined up, but rather to make it easier to reference where a full turn occurs. I've only been able to get a couple to line up. Turn in until the screw *lightly* bottoms - don't force it - and use the dots to help you count / mark your turns out. It's a frustrating process at times...but the payoff is worth every second of aggravation. | ||
| Howworkclutch |
On the front suspension, if I want to get anywhere near the books' recommendations, the dots must be aligned prior to setting up the suspension. If I tighten to the point where it is just snug, I end up with suspension that is downright scary. The rear index marks are about 1/2-turn off. I'm not sure why. I don't think its possible to screw the valve completely. I just made a run to the grocery, taking the back way through winding country road. Before leaving I marked the tires with chalk. I rode somewhat aggressively, but well within my comfort zone. I am amazed by how little chalk is left. I can't wait to get my beef stew started so I can go back to my testing area and dial it in a bit more. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
If you run it with the screws all the way in, you are getting max resistance.... Did you start with the initial settings in the owners manual? R | ||
| Hughlysses |
+1 to what Ratbuell said. The index marks are used as a guide, not an absolute indicator of position. | ||
| Romano |
The marks don't even need to be there. | ||
| Howworkclutch |
It just occurred to me that there may be a bit of confusion about the indexing marks. What I mean is, I'm not matching the left side with the right side. I'm tightening the dampeners until they are completely closed. Meaning, the indexing marks match up. The left and the right are in different starting points. I am not trying to match left and right. When I fist set this up, I used the owners manual (2008 version) to set it up but I only snugged the adjusters before backing them out. This gave terrible performance. I tried using the settings in the 2009 manual. Again, terrible performance. Now that I'm zeroing the valves (tightening till the indexing marks match) before counting the turns I'm getting much better results. If I don't close these all the way, neither manual (08 or 09) is correct and the suspension just plain sucks. And, as an aside observation, the ZTL will let you know if its wrong. | ||
| Speedy818 |
Wow - I put the recommended suspension settings for my riding weight in and they're near perfect... | ||
| Ratbuell |
What I was trying to say is, the marks do NOT always line up when the adjuster is all the way in. If they don't line up...DO NOT FORCE THEM. Let me emphasize that some more: DO NOT FORCE THE SCREWS You're dealing with a needle-and-seat mechanism, if you force it, you're done. It's boogered, and will never be right again. I didn't even think about left-to-right alignment. I am speaking of screw-to-housing alignment. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I'm concerned that by forcing the adjusting in past just snug you've already messed something up. You tighten them until they make contact, and back out from there. Also, make sure you're adjusting the front rebound in the opposite manner - back all the way, and then the turns in manual are turn in from full out. The index marks are completely arbitrary - if you force them to line up, you're going to ruin something, and they won't even be matched side to side anyways. The settings in the manual shouldn't be anywhere near "scary". | ||
| Howworkclutch |
The manual says all dampers are tightened and then turned out. If its goobered, i'm goobered. Diagrams of the internals would be nice. Anyone? | ||
| Tbowdre |
WTF??? this can not be for real | ||
| Fresnobuell |
The manual says all dampers are tightened and then turned out. I think the manual also says that the adjusters are tightened until lightly bottomed out? Pretty straightforward. | ||
| Ccryder |
Pretty clear IMHO. We all agree that small adjustments can make big changes. I wish I had the feel to extract all that the suspension can do. | ||
| Milleniumx1 |
I was wondering if this was real too ... Sounds a bit like the old "DO NOT PUSH THIS BUTTON" evoking a response of "Hmmm, let's see what happens if I push this button." For me, setting mine up for my weight and then softening them a touch (as in 1/4 - 1/2 turn) did the trick. I know 'feel' is subjective, but it should be THAT wrong setting up for your weight - Unless you've already damaged something or there's a defect somewhere. Mike | ||
| Howworkclutch |
At the very beginning of the thread I made the case for my own stupidity. No need to reiterate. Can anyone show me what is inside these valves? How boogered can they be and can they be machined back to spec? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
If you really goofed up, there is a possibility that I can ask for the innards of my forks after my rebuild coming up here shortly. I am not an expert by any stretch so I don't even know if what I am proposing is possible or not. I know they replace the stock valves and seals, among other things. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Dunno if this will format correctly... V \ / The "V" is the needle attached to the bottom of the adjuster screw. The "\ /" is the seat the needle sits in. By varying the distance between the needle and seat, you vary the amount of flow, and thus damping. If you *force* the needle into the seat, you make the seat larger / dent it / damage it, making for inconsistent flow characteristics. You can also dent the needle itself. Couple quotes from the '09 1125 owners manual, from buell.com in the owners' section: Adjust suspension to the recommendation if possible, but never force adjusters beyond the mechanical stops. Setting Front Fork Rebound Damping 1. See Front Fork Preload and Rebound Adjuster: Buell 1125 Models. Using a screwdriver, turn the rebound adjuster screw (1) clockwise until it stops. This is the maximum rebound damping setting. 2. Turn the adjuster screw counterclockwise the recommended amount specified. Setting Front Fork Compression Damping 1. See Front Fork Compression Damping Adjuster: Buell 1125 Models. Using a screwdriver, turn the compression damping adjuster clockwise until it stops. This is the maximum compression damping setting. 2. Turn the adjuster counterclockwise the recommended amount specified. As you can see, the only front end adjustment that is "backwards" (i.e. turn all the way OUT, then back IN) is the front spring preload - which is the large nut on top of the forks. All damping adjustments are turn IN to the stop, then adjust OUT to weight. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Are you expecting the marks to line up with 12 o' clock, or 3 or 6...? Tighten until snug and back out ## turns from that point. That's a starting point, refine to your taste and preference. Zack | ||
| Ratbuell |
Zack - my read is, he wants the dots on the screw to line up with the dots on the housing, when it's bottomed out. I'm just trying to make sure he doesn't "make" the dots line up by forcing the screw deeper, damaging the needle and seat. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Tru dat, Joe, forgot about the mating dot. When I rebuilt mine, I came out 180 off on one fork. Chalked up to not being observant, sure not gonna force it into submission. Z | ||
| Kevin_stevens |
What you did if you forced them shut is to damage the metering valve - effectively reducing the damping by an unknown but significant amount. If that felt good to you, it is an indication that the damping was set too stiff for your taste, and you could have gotten the same effect by backing the adjustments out fully. At this point, the only thing that can be done to repair it is to disassemble the forks/shocks and replace the needle and seat. If the suspension is as you like it now this can be postponed indefinitely - you won't hurt it any more by riding on it. I would call RaceTech and get their advice on repair. KeS | ||
| Howworkclutch |
I'm not so sure its boogered. Changes can be felt in the ride. Is there an oil that isn't so wildly affected by temperature? I get the bike just-so and the temperature drops, trashing my settings. | ||
| Jdugger |
The race tech oil is good stuff. Super slick, too. | ||
| Ratbuell |
You'll still feel changes...but your settings won't match the weight range they are designed for. Like a bathroom faucet that doesn't shut off all the way, despite the handle being screwed as tight as it will go. I think the book also has a recommendation about "below XX temperature" settings. Preload shouldn't change at all due to temp, and if you know you go X turns in or out when you cross that temp threshold, a quick change for temp is pretty easy. Granted I practice a lot, selling Buells...but I can set up a complete 1125 per the manual in about three minutes. | ||
| Xl1200r |
My bad on the rebound setting - brain fart. I really don't know what you're doing to not be able to dial in the suspension on this bike. I set up mine the day I brought it home based on the setting in the manual - aside from taking out a little rebound in the front, I haven't touched them in over a year. I ride from below freezing to almost 100 degrees, and while the bike feels a little stiffer or uneasy in the turns at first, I wouldn't describe my settings as boogered when the temp drops. Turning the adjusters is still going to make a difference in the ride - the needle is still moving in and out from the seat. What you may have messed up is the interface between these two parts. I would guess that you should be able to adjust the suspension to your liking, but you'll likely need to toss the factory settings the trash as they assume you have non-boogered parts. |
