| Author | Message | ||
     Sslowmo |
Hey guys and gals, I ride my XB12r at many Track Days. That being said, it is in need of more power. The biggest problem I'm having is the pinging at low RPM while trying to be really hard on the gas. I'd have to down shift to stay high in the power band to pull off the corners. That meant I'd have to slow down just a bit. Say left turn going up hill doing 100mph,in 4th.If I had stayed in 4th the RPM would have been to low and pinging would have occured under full throttle.If I take same corner in 3rd at 90mph I'd gain better drive off the corner and no pinging. It also seems to build RPM slow. I have a K&N air filter, Drummer exhaust and stock ECM. I also just had the TPS,Timming checked. Would the race ECM clean up the pinging? Also, would the RPM's climb faster? Further more, If running the Race ECM can I put the stock can on. Laguna Seca is not Drummer friendly! | ||
| Jraice |
I honestly dont really get your question... Your at a race track, 600 I4 or 1200 V2, your going to need to downshift to stay in the power band to get the best pull out of high speed corners. My XB did great at the track, the rider makes the biggest difference. The XB should still pull harder, or atleast as hard, as an SV650 which are all over the track and obviously is a rocket compared to a 250... At my local track, Thunder Hill, a fast track at that, I know Elena (cant recall last name, is it Myers?), an AMA racer, pulls 2:02's with a Ninja 250 while I am only getting 2:17's on the Buell (first weekend at the track but thats still a fast B time, cutoff for A group is 2:15). That being said you probably could use some ECM work if you have a drummer and a K&N, but I'd recommend getting a full open airbox mod (and breather reroute) before tuning... or just get the Race ECM. Should work okay with stock excahust and Race ECM, especially if you have the K&N plus open airbox. See you at the track sometime  . | ||
| Jaimec |
And you should see 11 year old Peter Lenz on his beat-up Honda 125. We all referred to him as "that little bastard" who lapped me last time out... | ||
| Fast1075 |
I hope young Mr. Lenz has mended and is back in action...in my humble opinion, he is destined for greatness. | ||
| Greg_e |
You are probably running lean because of the intake and exhaust mod, that really should be changed. Why is Laguna Seca not Drummer friendly, too much noise? | ||
| Roysbuell |
Just looked up Peter Lenz, and wow looks like the beginning of a great road racer. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
The reason you are pinging is because you are running lean due to your mods. At minimum you need a race ecm. Best would be to get your ecm tuned specifically for your setup. | ||
| Jaimec |
I wouldn't worry about Peter. At his age, he'll mend quickly. Can't say the same about people my age, unfortunately. | ||
| Sslowmo |
Thanks Greg and Indy you guys at least offered good opinions! And it might be.My set up is very common. I think I need to call AL. JRice: How can I take your opinion seriously, you don't even know the difference between your oil drain plug from your primary drain plug. LOL... Turn 8 at Thunderhill is the turn I was talking about. Thanks for the help guys. I meet Peter at Willow and that kid ROCKS!!!!. | ||
| Jraice |
Shush  ... Buell on turn 8... I have taken it in 3rd and powered up the hill with a shift into 4th as well as riding into it in 4th... Neither has an effect on my cornering speed I dont think. Pretty sure 3rd gear can do well over 100mph before redline, and that corner can be taken well over that speed. I think the 600 guys (faster then me probably) go in there at the top of fourth gear. Some guys come out of turn 7 WOT and just roll off to enter 8. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Wolfridgerider had his ECM dyno tuned, and he gained a substantial amount of power! That should be the FIRST thing you do before your next track day. Pinging is BAD for an engine. That being said, on a track you really shouldn't go below 3000 rpm on these motors. Hopefully you're not getting pinging because you're going that low. AND! You complain of slow revving. It's a LARGE displacement V-twin. It's going to rev slow! The advantage of that slow revving is more time to enjoy that massive amount of torque! | ||
| Sslowmo |
Mike, I'm never below 3000 RPM at anytime at the Track while Riding. I know 2nd gear gets me to 65/70, third 90, 4th 120 havn't needed 5th at the Track yet. Pinging is bad. I try and stay away from it. Just baby the throttle until I get past the pinging. I'm just hoping a ECM will clean that up. I got a email into Al (american sport bike) and see what he has. Alot of people have a K&N and Drummer. So, I'm thinking he has something that will work great. | ||
| Jraice |
Only 90mph out of third? I'll have to go ride the bike to be sure but I am almost positive I can get low triple digits in 3rd. | ||
| Slaughter |
Even with a STOCK 12 motor, you shouldn't be below 4000-4500 RPM more than just a moment or two on a race track. Tape over the speedo and watch the TACH. Speed is meaningless in the scheme of things... well, except for bragging rights at Starbucks. Look at the power curves for these motors, the "real" powerband isn't as "wide" as you'd really think if you're really WORKING the engine. (Message edited by slaughter on November 05, 2009) | ||
| Sslowmo |
pretty sure on accelerating 90 was about it maybe 95. When down shifting from 4th to third I made sure I was doing 90 or less. But you know at the moment,who knows!! I'm busy. I would come out of the last turn at Thill in second doing about 65/70 and just as I was getting the bike straighten up I'd shift to third then fourth maybe half way down the straight. I'd hit the rev limiter just as I was getting to the tower. Brake a little and down shift to third for turn one and keep it hammered on down to turn two. Now that I'm remembering yesterdays fun. It only pinged out there on turn 8 in fourth. tipping it in and when rolling on the throttle it would start. And I wouldn't have the pull that third had. I'm doing Sears next Monday. I'll have to see where third really tops out at. | ||
| Jraice |
I got into 5th at Thill, hit the rev limiter in 4th. I got a pretty good drive out of 15 (the last turn) as well, but I took it in 3rd gear. Its pretty easy to take a nice line through that turn at a really good clip. I played around with 2nd gear a bit but really never used it on my fastest laps. For turn 5 (the cyclone) I didn't need the power of 2nd to accelerate up to speed on the downhill right 5a turn. I could've used the drive out of turn 11, the slowest turn on the track, but I got good enough drive with 3rd. 3rd gave me lots of control coming out of 14 although if I were racing, 2nd probably would pull harder. 2nd wasn't needed for 15, I was going much too fast through that corner to use 2nd. I cant recall what I did for turn 1. Probably 3rd gear most of the time to get the best drive down to 2nd, did a few in 4th just to play around. | ||
| Sslowmo |
Slaughter, I've read alot of your post and project race bike. So your opinion has some weight with me. I need to tape the MPH because it is distracting. What is your take on the ECM with this setup, Stock ECM, K&N, drummer? Bike running lean? Would Race ECM be a wise chose? And would the Race ECM have a problem with stock exhaust. Servo in the stock exhaust wouldn't be working. | ||
| Xbgeorge |
Jraice, The reason you can go faster in third is because you have a newer XB with a 7,100 redline. He has a 2006 with a 6,800 redline. My 08 can get just over 100 before I hit the 7,100 redline. | ||
| Slaughter |
I'll actually ASK Don Thutt. He has tuned a bunch of the XB12 motors for a few of the local racers and would have seen curves for the race ECM and also for a tuned full-race module. MY GUESS (based only on my original XB9) - would be that IF you can get the "factory" race ECM, you should be able to just plug-and-play with the K&N and drummer. The race EMC cleaned up the mid-range where the fuel was "wrong" in order to make it pass EPA (at least that made sense to me when I first heard it) Remember, IF you can get a race ECM - the Throttle Position MUST be re-set! I'd bet you can pretty much just reset TPS and go riding. You MIGHT want to have your static timing checked when you have the race ECM put in. They can do that with the Digital Technician. Setting it yourself isn't impossible but since you're likely going to have them re-set the TPS, they'll already be hooked up and can check timing for you. The ping might be a problem but if you're below 4K and full throttle and if it's hot... and you're running crappy 91 octane (most CA pump gas is crap) - it can certainly ping. I stuck my lap timer right on top of the speedo so I dont' see it. A lot of track day operators recommend taping the speedo since it is TMI. You NEED tach readings, you can't really use speedo readings. | ||
| Sslowmo |
Thanks Slaughter, I emailed Al (American Sport Bike) and he gave a good source to get a map that works best with my setup. It's not the race ecm. It's a map done for the K&N and Drummer! The Race ECM is no longer available. After, I have this done I will post up and give the results. Thanks again for all the reply's. | ||
| Greg_e |
Is that just a fuel map or does it also have the ignition changes that I assume the RACE ECM also applied? At any rate that will be a good point to start. Then do the datalogging and see if you can improve things a little for your specific machine. |
