| Author | Message | ||
     Benm2 |
There's a quote from Ducati's racing team (MotoGP) that -loosely- states there are two brands of motorcycles in the world, Harley Davidson & Ducati, and the rest are just appliances. While this opinion misses the obvious significance of Buell, it does raise an interesting point. The MotoGP bike, v-4 or otherwise, is a Ducati FIRST. Desmo valvetrain, steel trellis frame, under-seat exhaust, and bright-red paint. The bike's got style. How does Buell fit into this? There seems to be the general opinion that the S1 represents the defining character of Buell. In order to keep & carry on this tradition, how to move forward? What are the "defining characteristics"? Perhaps: 1) Tube frame, trellis 2) 45-degree, pushrod, shake-like-hell motor, 1200cc 3) Single-disc, big front brake 4) underslung shock 5) The style.... Can these be combined in a new model? Revive the S1 with a Firebolt overbore. Since the oil's already in the swingarm, the "fuel cell" could be where the oil tank was. (The japanese & ducati put the airbox on top of the engine and still have a "conventional" gas tank. Not knocking the XB's fuel-in-frame, but 1 1/4" tubing won't hold alot of fuel) The underslung shock leaves a little more room for the fuel cell and battery. Plus, for the racing crowd, steel crashes better... What do you think? Would anybody buy one? | ||
| Newfie_Buell |
Damm Right, Would look real nice next to the 98 S1. | ||
| Rick_A |
I think keep it much the same but route oil through the frame. That way the oil tank could be eliminated and a stubbier wheelbase could be used. | ||
| Jim_M |
I've been wondering why the oil in the frame approach has not been used yet (other that the tube frames would need to be larger to accomodate the oil volume. Or say a flask type of tank mounted under the gas tank...well, other than the cooling issues. would it affect mass centralization that much? | ||
| Ara |
I don't know that I'd want to hug a bike with my legs that had a tubular trellis frame heated to 190 degrees. There's nothing inherently wrong with a wet sump, and it certainly helps centralize the mass. | ||
| Rebelgtp |
i would buy one that sounds like a nice bike. hoping this summer i can find me a nice S1, deffinatly the bike that turned me onto buells. | ||
| Imonabuss |
What's the definition of Buell? Innovation and doing what makes for the best handling and feeling streetbike out there. The S1 was great in 1995, but why sit still? The Firebolt has Buell patented fuel-in-the-frame, which is superior to a trellis frame (a frame style that Ducati did not invent); the Firebolt has the traditional Buell muffler underneath, which is better than in the tail (in case you didn't notice, Honda mounts the main muffler underneath on the bike that is beating the Ducati GP1 bike); and the Firebolt has the first really right ISO brake, with the disc mounted on separate lugs to prevent damage when the rim is dented (unlike the one on the Honda prototype show bike). Why go backwards? The S1 is a great motorcycle, represents breakthrough thinking at the time and will be a beautiful motorcycle forever. But don't expect it to come back. Buell has moved on. The original Honda inline four of 1968 was cool, but they sell RC-51's today. Oh, and only in Ducati's dreams are they comparable in charisma to Harley-Davidson. That tripe in the brochure is Texas Pacific Group trying to pump up the stock so they can get out! It sucks to see them doing this under the guise of their racing team, who really do a great job. And, when you get down to it, Honda, for example, is a hell of a better motorcycle company than Ducati! In fact, Honda even has a lot more charisma than Ducati! Honda has the history of dozens (hundreds?) of world championships in all types of vehicles, built 6 cylinder 250's in the 1960's, Formula 1 cars, hybrid electric cars, the CVCC combustion chamber that put the American car makers lawyers on the skids, the rocket fast RCV211, etc. That list surely trumps products like Ducati's Monster 620. Talk about an appliance! Marketing fluff. The Ducati race team deserves better. And the new Lightning is a more than worthy successor to the S1. Anything less would be fluff too. | ||
| Court |
>>>And the new Lightning is a more than worthy successor to the S1. Yeah..okay. Let's presume I accept your logic and go with the NEW Lightning. If you are so smart, now try to talk me out of wanting a 1957 Chevy and a 1959 MGA.  Court ...Willing to RIDE the NEW LIGHTNING and FONDLY REMEMBER THE OLD (it hurts to say that) Lightning | ||
| Jmartz |
Imonabus: In your analysis of Buell's Lightning series you neglected to mention the X1. A more comfortable and slightly more powerful (S1W not withstanding) although heavier replacement of the S1. The company's philosophy has been evolving. The S1 was the bare bones hot rod, the X1 the refined sport rod and the XB the innovate design with the old repackaged motor, down in power but up in handling. Where are they going with this, I wonder? | ||
| Benm2 |
Hmm. Proposing that Buell move forward with sportbikes that have overhead cams & such causes members to get bi**h slapped. Likewise, suggesting that a modernized S1 be built produces similar results. Anyhow... How is a fuel-in-frame structure superior to a steel trellis? What happens if you hole your XB frame from a nice looooong pavement kiss? I would be a little hesitant to drain the frame & weld it. Can you easily remove the frame from the bike to move it around and make sure all the gas is out of it before you weld it? What qualifies it as superior? Stiffness? Weight? Ducati knows a thing or two about racebikes. From the pictures I've seen so far, I'm not finding the RCV's under-bike muffler. There's one on the right side of the bike, and one under the seat. The Yamaha M1 has a a single under-seat muffler. Anyhow, with the new 130dB noise limit, no seems to be using much muffler anyway. Oh, and the Ducati beat a few RCV's in its first outing, in addition to outplacing every other manufacturer EXCEPT honda. The comment from Ducati was not from a Ducati brochure, it was from a comment I read from Roadracing World. Regardless, in Italy, who's bike has more charisma? Opinions may vary... Is Honda a better motorcycle company that Buell too? Regardless, which one's in YOUR garage? | ||
| Jmartz |
Ben, an open mind is welcomed in any forum. I wish Buell would have set their aim toward a higher revving larger displacement motor that could outperform the current design line. Harley did. I'm still waiting, I love my S1. | ||
| Henrik |
Fuel in the frame or in that thin-walled metal tank between your legs The big dent in my SV tank proves - to me at least - that either way has it's advantages and it's flaws. Henrik | ||
| Blake |
You gotta hand it to Duc for putting out such a fast right out of the blocks GP bike. Really impressive. Love that truss frame too.  If Buell doesn't have plans to revisit the truss frame, maybe we can at least get some stickers to make the fuel tank/frame LOOK like a truss/tube frame; you know like the stickers you can get to make the ugly can covered shocks look like cool looking exposed spring WP's? ![:]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) I'd love to have an XB9R for the track. | ||
| Rick_A |
Lemme see...I already have a cylinder head and header practically resting on my leg...I think a hot frame would be a very minor problem to overcome. The main things I see as a deterrent to owning XB's are: 1)All the pics I've seen of crashed racebikes and streetbikes with huge dents in the frame/tank 2)The price 3)The lack of low end power compared to the 1200 Buells 4)F.I. What I love about 'em are: 1)The superior handling 2)Better engine temp control 3)The sheer trickness factor. They have some features that have the uninitiated scratching their heads. | ||
| Reepicheep |
How much are the carbon fibre frame covers for the XB's? They look great, and thats an easy fix for a dented frame tank. | ||
| Blake |
How hot are the XB's frame rails (fuel tank) really getting? Are the inner surfaces insulated in any way to protect them from engine/header heat? They probably should be, and it wouldn't take much. After all, the more volatile constituents comprising pump gasoline begin to boil off at temperatures as low as 80oF (27oC). | ||
| Rick_A |
They look great, and thats an easy fix for a dented frame tank. So's bondo and spray paint  | ||
| Two_Buells |
did everyone forget that the Blast has the oil in the frame........ | ||
| Two_Buells |
My 1998 S1 has about 16,000 miles. I love this bike. Raw, Rude, just like a 69 Z/28. My 1999 S3 has been a love hate thing. But its the Buell I ride the most. (38,000 miles) Still looks like an S1 with a better seat and hard bags. My XB9R is a Precision tool for making curvy roads straight! At first I didn't like the look of the XB9S. in pictures it looks bad, IMHO. Now that I've seen many in person, this bike is growing on me. The last one I saw was a black one. I walked away thinking that bike (XB9S) has the great looking lines of my S1 with the precision stuff my XB9R has.....IMHO the XB9S is the S1 of the future. | ||
| Jimidan |
Imonabuss said: "Oh, and only in Ducati's dreams are they comparable in charisma to Harley-Davidson. That tripe in the brochure is Texas Pacific Group trying to pump up the stock so they can get out!" I think you are comparing apples and oranges here...they are totally different...cruiser vs. sportbike. Where did you hear that the Texas Group is trying to "get out?" Jmartz says: "In your analysis of Buell's Lightning series you neglected to mention the X1. A more comfortable and slightly more powerful (S1W not withstanding) although heavier replacement of the S1." The S1 sported a minimalist design that was very narrow...and the X1 is a bit fo a porker in comparison. I think the Corvette went through a similar design turn when the Stingray was replaced. If the name "Lightning" wasn't on both of them, you couldn't tell they were related. and Blake added: "After all, the more volatile constituents comprising pump gasoline begin to boil off at temperatures as low as 80oF (27oC)." I would think that you could hear the vapors whistling through the tank vent when you stop on a hot day. I have a mylar faced foam glued to the bottom of my tanks on the S2 and S1 to try to control this, and it really helps. It would be easy to install this stuff on any bike. | ||
| Blake |
Jimidan, Where does one find the insulation you are using? | ||
| Buelliedan |
Jimi, I bet if you compared my 2 lightnings (S1W/X1) you would see a lot of similarities. It all depends on how you accessorize them. | ||
| Rick_A |
I know Airtech carries similar stuff...there must surely be others. |
