| Author | Message | ||
     Moxnix |
I like all the rumors about what is being done, the thoughtful reasoning on what can be done, and anything else that mourns the closing of BMC, damns H-D management, and brings speculation, wild or otherwise, to the arena. I may even take a trip up to E. Troy, just for Monday afternoon's wake and one last opportunity to see what a quarter century of gumption and genius can accomplish. That said, the group from the Development association in E. Troy is probably holding the mortgage on the industrial park and is a bit up against it with the seeming loss of a good long term business. They may be looking at taking monthly payment hits or interest bullets until another company comes in. I'm betting they are flexible on a new lease. The plant in East Troy is now just a small town manufacturing unit on the way to being closed. As one who has brokered businesses, once the lights go out, it is worth the current market value of FF & E, furniture, fixtures and equipment. That's it. There is no brand. More important, there is no accounts receivable, no cash flow, nothing to do and nobody to do it with. Times are tough and the production line is not something someone will be in a big hurry to purchase or put back to work for anything other than motorbikes. Bean counters and lean management do not see 200 people with families and lives, just the bottom line. The Elves need something to do and somebody to do it with. Now, by default, is the time those in the know, and those who see an opportunity, to be doodling up reasonable ideas on a clean sheet of paper, knowing the team is in place for the time being. Build American products, even if some parts are sourced from the global market. Build for the new and young generation of motorcyclists. Build what's essential, what sells, what will be the shortest route to an income stream on which to base an expanding business. I know what I would do, and how it would be funded, even in these economic doldrums, but that's how I make my living, so "all the answers, all the time," are only available with a signed confidentiality agreement. Frankly, my favorite rumor is that EB is up having a pow wow with the Canadians. That could work. Beware the carrion crows who want to steal everything when a company is down. Even investment bankers have their pocketbook as a first priority, despite the promises of good intentions. When I find people who are ethical in their business activities, I make them my friends. If it is to be that we do not have Erik Buell building bikes with his name on them, perhaps the fruits of his integrity, gumption and innovative mind will reappear under another banner. I'm good with that. (Message edited by moxnix on October 24, 2009) | ||
| Rangeridn |
Haven't read the pow wow with the Canadians rumor yet...but there would be a load of financing available from the Federal Gov't...even for a deal the keeps manufacturing in E. Troy. If the new incarnation of Buell is based on a Rotax platform EDC (Export Development Canada) would finance the receivables - Bombardier is already one of their biggest customers. | ||
| Moxnix |
See. There are ways to do it. | ||
| Oldebuellrydr |
Max, Thanks for the devoted post. It hit home on many levels. Be positive, if EB is who we all "believe" he is, the passionate ideas will continue. The passion from the motorcycle ouwners will also illustrate their "resolve." So, how we do, what we do, when it's time will illuminate who we really are. | ||
| Rocketman |
If Erik Buell is as great as the industry experts tell us, then he needs to ask himself what his future intentions are where having his name on a motorcycle is concerned, given it's entirely possible he's more than capable of starting up again. The way I see it somewhat simplified is this. There are only three options. Option 1. He doesn't. End of play. Night night Zebedee. Option 2. He still hankers a desire to follow on with success at least somewhere close to if not better than what has been thus far. Seemingly unlikely it would appear under current circumstances not entirely motorcycle manufacture related. Option 3. He builds as a low volume manufacture. Back to basics then. Not your everyday basics, but Buell basics. We as the Buell understanding know what this means. The future is good. There will be new innovative designs featured on Buell motorcycles for the next generation. Of that I'm sure. Conclusion. I never thought for a moment it was a good thing HD buying Buell. I'm certain Erik would not agree. Not even now he's been shit on from a great height. But I am certain of one thing. If Erik ever builds Buells again his design creativity will be free of HD constraints. That's a Buell I look forward to if it's anything like the Buells he built before the corporate dorks moved in! Rocket | ||
| Moxnix |
Understood. If it were me, I'd take the wife and family to a quiet place in the Caribbean and do some serious pondering away from the bright lights of motorcycledom. If he goes low volume, I wouldn't be against giving us an updated version of the S2, godzone motorbike, in the classic/retro vogue that keeps the gray beard sport riders attention. He could just put an R&D consulting unit together to serve the industry. Keep his hand in the game. Might get a few great ideas far more into circulation that his former association with H-D allowed. I'll not make it E. Troy for the wake. Mammon plays the pipe and I dance on call. Too bad. I rather wanted to shop the idea of our guy designing something absolutely essential to the world market. Oh, well. Would have been fun. In the mean time, amongst the race motors in the collection, collecting dust is an old big twin engine that's been in the garage forever, 4-cam, pork chop flywheels, with reversed XR heads and billet cases made in the late 80s. Never knew what do do with it until this evening. My epiphany is to dig up an early FXR frame, designed by our very own guru for the Motor Company many years back. Never had a big twin on the street before, but if there is a drop of his genius in this one, it's tolerable. | ||
| Captainkirk |
Spot on, Rocket. The one temptation we don't know about is how much HD is proposing to pay Erik to "shut up and play nice"; a golden parachute, if you will. He's got to consider it, you know. It will come down to...nice life retiring to the Caymans, or tell the mother ship to stuff it, and struggle another decade. If it was anyone BUT, I'd say the conclusions are foregone. But EVERY Buell has a little dab of "in-your-face" installed from the factory, right? And EB has 180-some souls in East Troy to think about as well. A toss of the coin, at this point..... | ||
| Rocketman |
I suspect the way forward from this point is 180 people will not be employed unless something drastic and dramatic happens as a whole in the few remaining weeks of Buells existence as a motorcycle manufacturer. Who can see an 11th hour rescue? I can't. Of course, we are not privy to what's currently going on behind closed doors. My initial thoughts would be Erik will be tied to some no compete type contractual agreement unless HD have no problem with the resurrection of the Buell brand without them on board and without their products and components involved. I'd suggest a further problem presents itself if Erik were to resurrect a Buell motorcycle. People by now associate Buell as part of the HD empire. Anything Buell do in the immediate future will be seen by many as a HD offering. Success or otherwise. To digress slightly. Aside from Internet chit chat MCN UK is the only publication to have published news of Buells closure, which was last weeks bold text front page headline. 'Buell Shut Down' being the precise wording. Even reading said 5 pages of MCN's report, it's impossible to know who owns the rights, name or title to what are the crumbs of a disemboweled motorcycle manufacturer. What applies here in the UK I'm sure works too for the rest of the world. Who knows who owns what's left over and what's to become? That in itself could be a minefield of red tape to sort for a future company wishing to disassociate itself from a large mother company, and for a mother company wishing to disassociate itself from a start up company popularly associated the world over as once their baby. Whatever the future is for Buell in motorcycle manufacture, I believe there exists a hurdle to jump over that HD will require if the Buells of the future are not to be associated with HD. That I'm sure is a stranglehold HD will have around Erik's neck. A resurrected Buell marque will be difficult with just the Buell name me thinks. Is the Buell future bright? I suspect only Erik knows where he's heading, and my bet would be, he's down but not out. Rocket | ||
| Captainkirk |
Agreed....if Erik is to soldier on, he will have to leave the Buell marque behind along with his current designs and patent rights and start over from scratch with fresh ideas and a clean sheet of paper. For anyone else, this would likely be professional suicide. For Erik, I have no doubt the outcome would be solely dependent on how bad he wants it. With the train ride he's had from garage to King of Buell, it would be tempting for most to take the golden parachute and coast. But from what I know of EB, that well may be the worse choice for him. | ||
| Mbc |
Unless said designs and patent rights are held by EB Designs,all may not be lost. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Another point is there's probably nobody in a better position to develop a new design skirting the limits of patent infringement than the guy that developed the patent in the first place.  | ||
| Slaughter |
"do not compete" Wonder what that would actually mean when Hardley killed Buell MoCo because the bikes were incompatible with the MotherBeast's self-image??? | ||
| Rocketman |
Simplified it would mean Erik may not be permitted to start up another motorcycle manufacturing company for a period of time agree contractually. Rocket | ||
| Boltrider |
I'm out of my comfort zone on this, but I did a quick search, and at least here in the US, a non-complete clause would be difficult to enforce uniformly. Here in California, non-compete agreements are prohibited except under very narrow circumstances. According to Wiki, they may be enforceable: 1. If an owner is selling the goodwill in their business. (Business & Professions Code Section 16601). 2. When there is a dissolution or disassociation of a partnership. (Business & Professions Code Section 16602). 3. Where there is a dissolution of a limited liability company. (Business & Professions Code Section 16602.5). I don't think numbers 2 and 3 apply because it was not a partnership, nor was Buell classified as an LLC. However, the non-competes appear to be valid in most other states, so it would be like patchwork enforcement. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-compete_clause | ||
| Rocketman |
Well, I'm only speculating after all. It's not very telling that we're told Erik's staying on at HD in some sort of motorcycle future development role. Smells a little iffy squiffy to me. Would you stay on? I'd tell 'em to shove it up their arse no matter what if it were me. Rocket | ||
| Boltrider |
Hell F'ing no! | ||
| Captainkirk |
If somebody told you sit down and shut up or they'll kick your arse, would you? Or would you sit down and shut up only until they turned their back, and then.... | ||
| 46champ |
Does anyone think that Erik hasn't said anything yet till after the factory gets completely shut down and the last employee is taken care of to the best of his ability. He can't do anything for anyone if he gets locked out. | ||
| Court |
>>>the group from the Development association in E. Troy is probably holding the mortgage on the industrial park Inaccurate. Lease with MLG ran through 2011. Has been bought out. | ||
| Moxnix |
Part of the $125MM costs the brain trust in Milwaukee spent to shut down. Still, commercial real estate is the next bubble and I hope they find a new tenant. | ||
| Jlnance |
Would you stay on? Let me ask you this. If HD owned the culmination of 26 years of your work, do you think it would be easier to talk them into letting you have it back if were were an insider or an outsider? | ||
| Mikexlr650 |
Jlnance+1 keep in mind this is a guy that practically stowed away on a ship in order to get the attention of the men he needed. now he just needs access to his work, he's got financial backers, fans, customers, magazines, the "industry" watching and waiting for his next move. do you really think he'll just sit there at his desk going "oh shit what do i do now"...(sure he did that at some point) maybe the "brain trust" at hd isnt as clueless as they appear and set this all up to drive up the cost of buell. think about trying to sell anything right now, its not a good market for a "used" motorcycle company but (and its a big but) create an emotional outcry from the faithful, get the attention of the media and the industry and suddenly that little bike company looks quite different...and just might sell for more $$$ who knows??? | ||
| Petereid |
Maybe all Erik want's to do now is get out and ride. After 26 years he might just sit back and say "Hmmmm.....wonder if I could make this washing machine better?" I'm sure we'd all love for him to continue with the bikes but I wonder if even he knows what his future plans are yet. Pete | ||
| Rocketman |
Let me ask you this. If HD owned the culmination of 26 years of your work, do you think it would be easier to talk them into letting you have it back if were were an insider or an outsider? I wouldn't consider HD owned 26 years of Erik's work. Do they? Or do they own what is the manufacturing process of several Buell motorcycles? What's stopping Erik, or anyone else for that matter, making Buell motorcycles again? Be they the genuine article or replicas. If Harley doesn't want to, and someone else does with deep enough pockets, who and what is to stop them? I might chuck in a few mil and have Erik work for me. I'm pretty sure I could build XB's in Yorkshire using S&S motors. Rocket | ||
| Court |
There are many possibilities. | ||
| Moxnix |
". . . . when a great genius appears in the world the dunces are all in confederacy against him."-- Jonathan Swift | ||
| Mikej |
I have nowhere near that type of cash or assets available, some here might, some here do, I don't. If I did then I'd do something. Yorkshire Performance Motor Works has a nice ring to it.  | ||
| Benm2 |
The S&S motor & the resurrection of the tube frame would be the easiest start. Bring back the S1! | ||
| Richsm2 |
maybe a sputhe motor,(1290cc,9 to 1 comp , 550 lift cams, dual 40mm carbs ,130 mph 1/4 mile speed with track gearing)see www.counterman.net/vanceb.html. but that would be going backwards from the current level of available manufacturing and engineering. |
