| Author | Message | ||
     Nevco1 |
Lot of nice numbers there, but I am most impressed with Buell's Unit Sales. | ||
| Court |
This is wonderful and supports the fact that Buell is indeed on to something with the XB product line. Does anyone, other than me, like dividing $6,309,000 revenue by 1,330 units sold and wishing they could buy a Buell for $4,744?  I know...I know.... | ||
| José_Quiñones |
Where did you find Buell's unit sales numbers in that report? All I can find are net revenue and units shipped, not units sold. | ||
| Nevco1 |
Jose...Agreed it was "Retail Registrations," however I strongly doubt it was a loading program. More likely a result of the new Lightnings and the Financing Programs. I think you will agree that there are not many (if any) dealers loading their showrooms with Buells. | ||
| Court |
>>>All I can find are net revenue and units shipped, not units sold. Buell "sells" every unit prior to the unit being produced. Not everybody does it this way. Each manufacturer following a different model to fill their supply chain. This became veeeerrrry interesting back in the days of forecasting the "Rainbow Paint" S-1 program and the "Have it your way" S-3 program. Anyone with a rudimetary grasp if permutations can intuitively see the first order of confusion, try elevating that with the addition of specific homologation regulations in "X" number of countries. HINT (just an example): a French bike can go to London with a Kilo to MPH change but a London to Sydney swap would require 2" of additional spacing between tailight filiments and a mirror extension. And you thought all Erik had to worry about was horsepower...... Court | ||
| Jim_Sb |
If we can presume the report is indicative of a trend (not realistic given the paucity of data), then Buell could end the year with nearly 12,000 units shipped, which, if they are actually sold, would put Buell in the BMW league in terms of unit sales. More importantly, Buell is shipping 4 times as many XB9R/S units than they are Blast units... Makes you wonder how many they need to sell to turn a profit... | ||
| Jim_Sb |
Court, there is "selling" and then there is "when a sale can be recorded on the Books & Records". If all Buell units are pre-sold, and if they cannot be returned to the factory after shipment (I/O/W, shipping the unit changes the ownership of the unit from Buell to the Dealer), then one would think the earliest a "sale" could be recorded is at the time the unit is shipped. | ||
| Buelliedan |
It tells me that the tides have indeeed changed in Buells favor. All those naysayers that were predicting Buells demise last year appear to have been served some crow for dinner. It took Buell until the year 2000 to reach the 25,000 bikes made mark. If they keep up this pace they will hit 50,000 by next year!! | ||
| Nevco1 |
Profit??? Interesting concept to be determined by the corporate controllers for tax purposes. Percent of corporate contribution is the measuring stick in my opinion. The only time they need to show real profit is in the event they want to sell the division. I find that highly unlikely especially considering Buell's niche in the market and their value to HD in both R&D and marketing. | ||
| Nevco1 |
Thinking a little deeper into the sales issue, with an independent dealer network, a unit can be considered sold when either it is ordered or shipped from the factory. That's up to corporate to decide. Considering the test ride programs running the next few months and the spring/early summer selling season, I would suspect that the addition of the two new Lightnings would prompt the dealers to increase the number of units floorplaned for the first two quarters and possibly the third quarter as well. After that, to maintain or increase the sales momentum is a direct result of market penetration and timed new product releases. Sounds like a great promotional opportunity to me! | ||
| Jim_Sb |
Nevco, spoken like a Marketing guy!  I'm kinda old fashioned. I always figure if it was my business I'd be in it to turn a profit and have some fun along the way. Not invest capital and time just to break even. I really don't see it being a Marketing item as HD is selling all it can build of it's traditional product line. Is Buell causing those HD sales? Naw... In any event, HD is responsible to it's shareholders who ultimately want to see results (and it appears they have been seeing results). So if we, the loyal Buellers want to see Buell stick around a long time it would be in our interest to see Buell turn a profit. That's all. I don't want my S2 to become an orphan...  | ||
| Nevco1 |
Jim...LOL, great commentary and I agree whole heartedly. The entrepreneurial spirit in us forces us to think that way. Just wish I were Erik 20 years ago. Then again, I owned a thriving business back then and enjoyed every minute of the 24/7 responsibility and excitement. Always exciting when you hock the farm to see your dreams come to fruition. If all works according to plan you will flourish via controlled growth. Unfortunately, Murphy and his nasty law can put you in a bind occasionally and that is when either an understanding banker or a venture capitalist can help get you moving forward again. Then again the true entrepreneur is a start 'em, grow 'em and sell 'em specialist, with 'em meaning the company. Main reason is they are too creative to stick with one idea for long and not financed well enough to handle too many ventures at one time. However, there are many like Erik that have a true love for what they are doing and can't perceive themselves doing anything else. In that case, the opportunity for HD to invest for 49% of the business is a read shot of adrenalin and their upping the ante to 98% is the ultimate in security. Not a bad way to go if you ask me. Additionally, I doubt if they would have gone beyond the 49% level if they did not fully realize the value Buell represented to their long term strategic marketing plan. After moving back to the Milwaukee area after 30 years away, I have met a lot of HD personnel and they all have positive things to say about Buell and its position in the Corporate Structure. Then again, if you saw some of my posts in the Stormfronts Brew City section, you would laugh as these same folks simply would never consider riding head first with a helmet. Is always a light hearted conversation and they let me ride with them, but I still take the heat for the skid lid. LOL Needless to say, they are all searching for a bagger for me to add to the stable. Have ridden a few, but would seriously have to retrain my thought process to ride on one for any distance. I just love the twisties too much. The same security that HD provided Erik is what will keep your S2 from being an orphan. Buell's may be the bastard step child in some circles, but then, like HD owners, we are rogues as well and tend to enjoy the unconventional. Have a great day! Bill | ||
| Jim_Sb |
Quote: Needless to say, they are all searching for a bagger for me to add to the stable I like baggers. My S2 is a wonderful 'bagger' for my needs. I heartily recommend one...  | ||
| Nevco1 |
With a Tank and Tail Bag on the X1, I am good for as far and as long as I (solo) want to go. Check the pic in my profile. Thank God for laundromats. LOL Downside is no room for a Lady. Not to mention, there are not too many Ladies willing to ride on a Buell in Milwaukee. Just not the thing to be seen on. LOL | ||
| Dynarider |
Thinking a little deeper into the sales issue, with an independent dealer network, a unit can be considered sold when either it is ordered or shipped from the factory. That's up to corporate to decide. True & I would hazard a guess this is the way Buell is looking at it. Its not as if cusomers are coming into dealerships & custom ordering bikes the way you used to do with cars. Dealers come up a forecast of projected sales for the upcoming year & Buell produces bikes based on those forecasts. Am I on base here Court? | ||
| Jim_Witt |
Bill, Nice statment ... -JW:> | ||
| Dynarider |
Bill, still not trading pinks with ya.  This yr when we ride & stop some place to eat, I will let you point at my bike & the ladies its yours. | ||
| Cjmblast |
there are not too many Ladies willing to ride on a Buell in Milwaukee. Yeah, but a lot of us NON-ladies are willing !!! Phoey on those who aren't willing !!!! CJM  | ||
| Nevco1 |
CJ...I request your assistance in finding them. I evidently hang in all the wrong places. LOL Dyna...Wide Glide won't help with the Ladies near my age. The minimum they want to be seen on is a Road King with the Ultra being the preferred mode of transportation. It appears it is the party and not the ride that in foremost in their minds. LOL | ||
| Buelliedan |
Nev, Might I suggest you look for ladies in a different age group then!! I myself prefer the 18-25y/o group!! | ||
| Nevco1 |
Too funny...LMAO, I have a mental block against women that are younger than my daughters. 40+ is just fine for me! | ||
| Court |
In any event, HD is responsible to it's shareholders who ultimately want to see results (and it appears they have been seeing results). My Dad bought a great deal of Harley-Davidson Common in 1983 when he sold his construction business and retired at 52. He bought it at $9.00 per share as I recall. HE passed away 3 years ago yesterday, after enjoying 17 years of retirement on H-D. I never heard him, as a stockholder, complain. I have pictures of Dad and Eri Buell sitting here on my desk in what, looking back, were much dimmer days. Dad's only concern (he knew Rich Teerlink fairly well, too) was how soon Erik would chair Harley's board. Beleivers tend to find one another. Someone said "I wish I was Erik Buell 20 years ago". You need to have a long talk with Erik Buell....Dave G and I can help. I do, however, have a dandy picture of Erik and I at the 1990 Buell Owners Club meeting and we were kids....just kids. Dyna pretty much has it and I'll not waste either time nor attention on the details. Suffice to say that Buell MOTORCYCLE COMPANY, where Erik Buell is Chairman and CTO, does DESIGN and MANUFACTUERING. Period. The firm is 98% owned by HD. Buell DISTRIBUTION Corporation is 100% owned by the mothership, buys every Buell produced as the create breaks the plane of the door (in essence) and handles transportation, dealer relations, marketing (Leslie's check say's HD, not Buell), pulbic relations, media relations, event planning, shows, rollouts, legal, ad nauseum. For the record, and to hush a few of the Chicken Little's, please note that Harley-Davidson is one of the CASH RICHEST firms in the United States of America. Do they LIKE to loose cash, forego profits? Of course not. But, they do have the capacity to absorb the downside of risks. A couple years ago someone, on the eve of the $2.4 shock recall, forecast the demise of Buell as a result. I pointed out that the $2.4M figure was roughyl equivalent to HD T-SHIRT sales before 2:00PM on Tuesday of any given week. PLEASE. Dyna's model is pretty well on the mark for the general purposes of this discussion. HD learned much in the "Dark Days" about how to "move iron". Ask someone, someday how Clyde Fesler got his "Get out of Jail Free" ticket. Times have never looked brighter, in my mind, for Buell. They've taken the hardest commerical Ali KO punch a young company could take, drug themselves up by the rope and said "we'll not just stand, we want to be Wilt". Last year some Wannabe Einstein said "this is the last year for Buell". I cried H.O.G.Wash then and repeat that now. Profit is a BIG part of the picture, it's not the entire picture. Ever seen the mock-ups the USN builds before burning welding rod on a carrier? How about if you can have a "mini-Navy" where mistakes, although never fun, carried significantly diminished consequences. What if the very nature, demographics if you will, of war were "in flux" and youi received the gift of an innovative and creative visionary filled with passion who'd build small ships, fight small wars and fine tune evolving technology prior to "going to war". What if your vision in doing that say, saved you millions in mistakes on your next carrier. You, as a result, understood commercial scalability and knew what things "grew well" and which didn't. What if you could go to the next war with a map of the mine fields? Would you invest in that future? Lately, I've had a glimpse of something I like...in fact I like it a lot! Nothing specific, it never is with Buell. It's "THAT" grin, that chuckle and the same "tude that Charlie Anderson used to get before we egged Sarah Bausch's house...I can SMELL something coming. I told you to save your pennies a year ago. Did you? Am I getting more opinionated as I get old?. . . CJ does it show? | ||
| Tricklidz |
Quick tech question: H.P and Torque should cross at 5250 rpm on all dyno runs? Why? What if I have a dyno sheet where they cross at 9400rpm? (This is not a Buell) I looked in the K.V. but couldn't find the answer. Aaron? TIA Steve | ||
| Jim_Witt |
Dan wrote: Might I suggest you look for ladies in a different age group then!! I myself prefer the 18-25y/o group!! Me too, but I'm 54! -JW:> | ||
| Cjmblast |
Nevco, if the ladies you hang out with are that uppity, you need to find another crowd !!! It ain't where your hanging out, it's who your hanging out with !! Who needs high maintenance !!  CJM | ||
| Cjmblast |
Am I getting more opinionated as I get old?. . . CJ does it show? That would NOT be opinionated, that would be having CONFIDENCE !!! CJM  | ||
| Elvis |
Wow! I just reviewed the numbers. Buell has never shipped more than 2000 steel frame/large displacement bikes in a quarter . . . ever. In fact, they shipped a yearly total 5043 in 2000 and 6436 in 2001 (their two biggest years). Now look at the XB's. They shipped 2519 in Q4 2002 and 2356 in Q1 of 2003. I was at my local dealer today, and they only had 3 XB's on the floor. Everything considered, I don't think they're doing so bad. | ||
| Dynarider |
Elvis, are those figures of 5043 & 6436 world wide or simply US? The ones Jose posted I believe are global shipments. | ||
| Elvis |
Dyna, My numbers are worldwide, Jose's are US (the registration report, not the Harley financial report). I am also excluding Blasts. I assume Jose's include Blasts | ||
| Elvis |
I just took another look with Blasts considered. Prior to 2002, there was only one quarter in which Buell shipped more than 3000 total units (large displacement and Blast). Last year, they shipped more than 3000 total units in Q2, Q3, and Q4. In the first quarter of this year they just missed the 3000 mark (2941). Very positive trends in my opinion. |
