| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
What exactly is speed sifting? Does any one get a good wheelie out of a 9r or 9s in second gear? Just curious. | ||
| Ray_Maines |
Why Anonymous? Who are you? | ||
| Blake |
Jasonblue (Jason Gorder), Maybe you failed to see the admonishment placed immediately next to the "Anonymous" option? To answer your question... What is speed shifting?... Clutchless upshifting during hard acceleration accomplished smoothly by upshifting simultaneously while quickly flicking throttle closed then returning it to wide open. Can't answer about the wheelies. I'd expect a 9S would wheelie quite easily in 2nd gear. The 9R with its more forward/crouched ergonomics might not wheelie so easily. | ||
| Noface |
My 9r will do a mondo wheelie shifting from 1st to 2nd. That's not a power shift either. To carry it to 3rd might take a power shift, I don't know, I haven't grown the cajones yet. I'll ask: Is shifting the gearbox without the clutch as Blake described bad, or hard on the tranny? Jody S. | ||
| Spiderman |
Noface, From what I hear Upshifting no downshifting Yes. I useally do it for fun, like at the drag strip  | ||
| Jasonblue |
Blake, No I didn't fail to read the admonishment, however I didn't feel I was abusing the option. The admonishment doesn't really apply anyway, (I guess?) because you didn't bother to ask if I had a reason to be anonymous. Guess I won't do that again. Anyway thanx for the definition. Noface- You get a good wheelie when shifting normally from 1st to 2nd? You don't have to get your RPM's up with the clutch in?.....J | ||
| Jimidan |
Did Blake say NOT to use the clutch? I thought maybe he just didn't mention it. Blake? Why not use the clutch? I have my clutch adjusted so that I just barely have to pull it in as I blip the throttle and hit the shifter with my toe. This takes no more time and effort, just a bit more coordination, but unloads the gears momentarily allowing for less wear. Now if you are pulling the clutch lever all the way in, that is a different story. | ||
| Dynarider |
Jason, you can try upshifting around town without using the clutch. Like Blake said have your toe under the shift lever & giving it just some slight pressure then just back off the throttle for a split second & you will feel the upshift. As far as 2nd gear wheelies, I dont know why but some buells will do em & some wont. My X1 will power wheelie all day long, but absolutley refuses to come up in 2nd gear. Have tried speed shifting, dumping the clutch , etc. Maybe it has something to do with me weighing 220lbs & I like to sit forward with quite a bit of weight on the bikes front end too. PS, I would suggest if you are going to try a 2nd gear speed shift make sure you have your foot ready to hit the rear brake incase things get out of hand. I looped a CBR600 12 yrs ago because I spaced out & had no control of the rear brake while doing 2nd & 3rd gear wheelies. | ||
| Noface |
Jason, ""Noface- You get a good wheelie when shifting normally from 1st to 2nd? You don't have to get your RPM's up with the clutch in?.....J "" You betcha. In first, run it up to 6500 and quickly shift to second and the front will go as high as I let it. It would easily loop. At least it feels that way, I haven't found out (which is a good thing). | ||
| Jdbuellx1 |
Dyna, My X1 would always do second gear wheelies no prob even before serious mods. I also weigh in at around 220 lbs. have rearsets and crossroads race handlebars. Just run 1st gear to redline and shift hard to 2nd, comes up everytime. | ||
| Jdbuellx1 |
Oh yeah, good advice on the rear brake, saved me from many catastrophic balls bigger than brain crashes in the past. | ||
| Jasonblue |
Noface, Thats interesting, you said yours will "go as high as you let it." When I do the same thing on my 9s my front tire comes off the ground but only about 12 inches (guessing) and only for a short distance. Maybe I just need to work on technique. I hear ya on the rear brake advice. I've looped many a dirt bike. Would hate to do it on the street. Jason | ||
| Rick_A |
I had my S1 up going into 4th gear cresting a slight hill at a, uh, sporty speed today. It's cool having the front wheel skipping off the ground for that long. I had my body sprawled as forward and low as I could. I don't mess with big low gear wheelies 'cause I can't afford a flip! I've tried speed shifting briefly before and couldn't get the hang of it. | ||
| Madav8tr |
Surely my S1 isn't abnormally powerful but it will power wheelie in second easily and I can fan the clutch in third and it will come up nicely as well. It does have a Force exhaust and a thunderdslide kit with a screaming eagle ignition but other than that it is stock. Hell, I can wheelie this thing easier than my '02 RC51 and that bike has 130RWHP. That might be the reason I ride it more than the RC now that I think about it. | ||
| Newfie_Buell |
My S1 will rise to the occasion in 1st gear all the time with no effort, since the T-Storm work I almost flipped it over in 2nd gear but that was a brief shot of the throttle and I really did not expect it. Like Dyna indicated if your playing keep the foot close to the rear brake so you can get out of trouble fast, this is a little hard on the front end but definately easier than flipping one over. I am also about 240lbs so the bike has absolutely no trouble lifting. I can't wait until the motor is broken in to really start using its full potential. | ||
| Sportyeric |
Hey! This is turning into a wheelie thread! I was looking forward to more input as to whether speed-shifting is harmful. I disagree with Spidey. I believe most Japanese bikes have some sort of cushioning in the drivetrain that absorbs the shock, while ours is more direct drive. I think a little bit of clutch provides that cushion. I can see its application in a race setting, where ET is more important than longevity, but I think its expensive fun on the street. Although the same can be said for bouncing off the rev-limiter, running all day at WFO, and practically everything else we do when we're having fun. I've just been spending too much on tranny repairs without accelerating the issue. | ||
| Racerx1 |
I always speed shift during aggressive riding on upshifts, but always use the clutch on downshifts (lost 3 belts during track days on agressive downshifts before converting to chain). I also use a GP shift pattern though, which makes powershifting up through the gears much easier....never had a speed shifting related tranny problem in 3 different Buells. | ||
| Dynarider |
disagree with Spidey. I believe most Japanese bikes have some sort of cushioning in the drivetrain that absorbs the shock, while ours is more direct drive. Actually Eric there is a lot of slop built into the Buell/Harley lineup. Between the primary drivechain setup & the belt drive final there is a bit of cushion built in. A lot of the japanese..maybe all im not sure have integral transmissions with gear drive instead of chain primarys. There is an actual reason for putting on a belt driven primary as opposed to a chain drive. Yea most of the chopper riders do it for looks, but it also eliminates any slop in the portion. There is no slack to take up & the response happens right now. This also contributes to a bit more shock throughout the system. | ||
| Bomber |
most japanese scoots DON"T have anything to take up shock produced by accelerating . . . . though many are showing up with clutches to stop wheel lock on downshifting | ||
| Dynarider |
Bomber, Ducatis has slipper clutches on the 749 & I think aprilia may have them on a model as well. You are correct about a few of the rising sun models having them, but right now I cant recall which ones. | ||
| Madav8tr |
ZX6RR has a type of slipper clutch from the factory. As far as I know that is the only production bike with one from the factory. The 749 may have one as well but I haven't read any reviews that mention that particular feature(see sportrider for a current article). As for clutchless upshifts I have done it for years with both cars and bikes and I have never had any trouble. I only do it when I am riding(wheelies  ) or driving hard the rest of the time I fan the clutch when I upshift. Sorry for the wheelie reference . | ||
| Newfie_Buell |
Old Honda Shadows had them too, you could be in 3rd or 4th and drop it right back to 1st and the rear wheel would not lock up. | ||
| Sportyeric |
Aprilia Milles and the Suzuki SV1000 both have slipper clutches. If I'm mistaken about the lack of, or need for, shock absorbtion in the drive train I would be perfectly happy to adopt the technique. I've tried it a few times with satisfactory results but worried about the long term consequences. As I think about it, isn't such a shock absorber what is called syncromesh. I drive highway coaches which require double clutching and matching revs, etc or they won't go into gear. They can be shifted clutchless but the boss doesn't like it for the repair costs if you miss a shift. I thought it was lack of a syncromesh mechanism that makes them so. And a 1959 MGA had no syncro in first, as I recall, although it may just have been worn out. I picture rubber padding somewhere as being the design of a syncro but I've never really seen such a thing. Maybe I should go to Howthingswork.com and get myself educated. But I thought those fancy-shmancy Japanese bikes had that kinda useless extra stuff. What, then causes dogs to round off in 30k miles? Inadequately firm shifting, with or without the clutch? Synthetic oil?(Just kidding.) | ||
| Spiderman |
Ok you keep on down shifting with no clutch and tell me what happens | ||
| Reepicheep |
I think all the Japanese bikes have rubber in the drive train... My yamaha had what they called a "cush drive", it was a bunch of rubber pie pieces inside the rear hub that isolated the drive train from the wheel. No such critter on the Buell, the rear sprocket is bolted to the wheel as I recall. | ||
| Boese |
Ok you guys are very inspiring. I got a hang of the speedshifting. Now lets start a thread on wheelies :-) what is the difference between a wheelie and a power wheelie that is being referred to? What other wheelie denominations are there ? boese, OH REMINDER: wednesday night - bike night Columbus, OH Quaker Steak and Lube http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/tmdublinoh/ | ||
| Sportyeric |
OK. Now that we've got that cleared up(?!) we can get back to the wheelie thread. Wheelies come in a variety of denominations. There are slip-the-clutch wheelies that have subsections of dead stop, slightly rolling, and other-than-first-gear. Next up are the chop-and-whack wheelies. Chopping the throttle compresses the forks for a little extra lift before WFO lofts the front. Similar to the chop-and-whack, but more graceful, and easier on the primary chain, is the bounce-and-whack. Stand on the pegs, give a little bounce, then whack. Some guys on litre-sized race reps I was riding with last year were doing some great 70mph wheelies in this fashion. The beginning of my heart's discontent. Then there are power wheelies. Just crack the throttle WFO and there you go! For best effect, pull back on the bars at the same time. At all times, keep in mind the aforementioned advice on rear brake coverage. Also keep in mind the Cdn$300 cost of a belt. Disclaimer: my ride doesn't do most of these. None since I bought my second belt. | ||
| Phillyblast |
The slip the clutch wheelie seems to be the only one I'm capable of doing on the S2.  the good news is I just did one on my way back from lunch David | ||
| Reepicheep |
Don't forget the "accidental wheelie".... You know, the one you do accelerating out of a hard right hand turn, or just trying to get across a busy intersection.... the "where in the heck did THAT come from" wheelie. The last one I did was making a hard right in front of a local county Sherrif after I installed the super-trapp. Whoops. Guess that thing DOES make a little more power now. They still scare the crap out of me though. Seen too many internet videos of loops and what happens to the bike afterwards. The little 6" power wheelies are fun, but I leave the monster lofts to the dirtbike. Kudo's to the people that can lift and land them smoothly, responsibly, and reliably though, looks like fun. | ||
| Rick_A |
I'm afraid to do stoppies now after seeing all the crash vids. Some of them bikes go into wild tank slappers then crash seemingly out of nowhere. That and I don't have my bicycle to practice them on right now. It actually does give you a good feel for the brake control needed. |
