| Author | Message | ||
     Amrra12 |
1ST I want to say it sucks Buell is done! I have owned 2 Buell’s a ZB12R and a 1125R and till ..well ..about a week ago raced for HOH Buell, BUT Buell took the road less traveled with the design of there bikes and it never went over well with the public, Buell had to be different and sometimes that’s not a bad thing but it held there sales down! #1 The 1125R should have been a full fairing bike #2 it should have been chain drive #3 it should have had better styling! The bike just never took off! This is Buells fault, and this is why YOU NEVER let engineers design how a bike will look! As Buell did! IMO Buell tried to be so different then the rest it cost them $ and then the time ran out! (Message edited by AMRRA#12 on October 19, 2009) Actually the proper title for this thread is more like... (Message edited by blake on October 20, 2009) | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Whatever. R | ||
| Miko_k |
Buell's time ran out because the world is full of posers. That's why. They are everywhere- riced out cars that run and ride like crap, chromed-out, slammed and extended bikes or ape-hanger-equipped choppers with straight pipes, lifted trucks with chrome wheels. It's stuff that people do because other people do it too. DO any of them need 22" rims? No they don't- not a single cool thing about them, except "I gots them twenytoos and you got fiteens..." So?.... Most of these posers don't know jack about mass centralization or unsprung weight. They want to get the attention, good or bad. We, the Buell riders don't. Mine is flat black. No chrome, no badges, no BS. Lean and Mean. Let this be my fate  | ||
| Xl1200r |
The same guy that designed the 1125R also designed the XB Lightning, which won awards from the Industrial Design Institute. He also designed the CR and S1, all beautiful bikes. I'm with Carbon. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Thad, you're a tool. | ||
| Danxb9r |
Porsche's engineers have been designing cars just like Buell has for years and they are doing just fine. They choose engineering over looks. It all about how it performs not how it looks! Although I think the styling of the 1125R could be a little smoother I think what really hurt them was marketing. I have friends that look at my XB and don't even know what it is! I just bought a 1125R and can't wait to see how she drives. (Message edited by danxb9r on October 19, 2009) | ||
| Amrra12 |
Yeah OK You talk about the riced out this and riced out that! Last I checked Kawasaki Honda or Suzuki ain’t going out of business! And still make bikes people want to buy, Buell sold 12k bikes last year Honda Had 13,000 bike {per ordered} when the new CBR 1000RR came out! Ummmm makes you think what does the as you all call them JAP bikes have that Buell doesn’t? well 1st a job! 2nd they don’t stray so far from the norm that they isolate themselves from the common buyers! Don’t get me wrong I love my 1125R but I hated it until I saw it in full fairing! And I would have never bought it { it was a sponsored bike} but that would have been my loose because how great of abike it truly is! Here is an article I wrought for a road racing magazine! This sums up my 1st thoughts of Buell! Well, what can I say? I was skeptical, not unlike most that had seen the 1125R in person. I mean, the bike looks like a street fighter, not a throw it on its ear and spin up the rear tire “race bike”. But once I put a wheel to the track I knew what this thing had and that was potential, in truck loads! The torque curve was unbelievable and the handling was razor sharp. I knew in no time I would be cutting lines so tight a plastic surgeon would have been jealous. Still, we had work to do and that work was dialing in suspension. I had little idea of where to start on the suspension. I know what I like a bike to do, but finding its sweet spot can be a difficult and time consuming process. Luckily we had a test and tune weekend coming and that was my opportunity to try and find that elusive sweet spot. The weekend came and went and I was, or so I thought, heading in the right direction as far as making the bike handle the way I needed it to. Soon, I would find I overlooked one very important thing and that’s "what the bike likes is sometimes more important then what I like!" I went home happy after that weekend in my accomplishments but come to find out, only one of us was ready. RACE 1 Race 1 started great. It was sunny, hot and the track temp was at 95 degrees at 10:30am. The bike felt light and nibble although the front felt a bit vague. It was pushing a bit as I would drive into the corners but I thought little of it. This was not my first rodeo so to speak. I know how to handle a bike and sometimes you just need to out drive the corner and settle the suspension. Racers like their bikes on the verge of being twitchy and unsettled. They are faster and more compliant in that zone. But as untamed as we like them, when they do bite, you had better be ready to defend yourself. Going into “the hanger” , a 90MPH, left hand corner that leads to the “back straight," (a 2,200 foot long, full gas, full tuck, 150HPH plus, shoot to the next turn) the front tucked and the rear stepped out “highsiding” me onto the ground at over 80MPH. This is at least what I am told. I have no memory of the event, only the half hour after and the long ambulance. RACE 2 Well, how could it get much worse then the first race? Luckily it didn’t, it got much better after redoing the suspension so the bike would be happy as well. Funny how pain will make you remember you’re not truly the only thing involved in winning or losing the race! Day one went well. I got back up to speed quickly after the big “get off” and the bike was starting to feel better. Over the loud speaker I heard the call for the pre race meeting. It was go time and I had to make sure the changes I made on the bike that morning were good because the green flag was about to drop. The bike was ready and so was I. I took the win! First time ever a Buell had won an event in the 20 + year history of Tanacross and I was proud to be part of it. Humility settled in quickly though, as I had to do it again the next day! We swept the weekend taking home two first place wins in the class. RACE 3 and 4 Still on my high coming off my last two victories I knew we, myself and my House of Harley sponsored Buell, had it in us to take home the next few wins and go for the class championship. All I had to do was not crash and lay down some vicious times. Times that the other guys could not reproduce or even best. Which under the best of circumstance is difficult, competition is fearsome and a racers competitive nature is even more so. But I knew I had the best bike and sometimes you just need to, as they say in racing, "put her on the podium, or put the pieces in the truck!" As it went, the Buell worked flawlessly and did everything I needed it to do to win the next 3 races and take second place in the last race. We were able to give the Buell its just deserts, as well as my sponsor “The House of Harley Davidson and Buell” the class championship. I have won championships on many bikes from Kawasaki, Yamaha and even Suzuki but none have ever been as fun nor have I ever been as proud as I am putting the all new 1125R on the championship podium. It has an amazing ability to “just win” races! And to inspire confidence! | ||
| Pizzaboy |
This is a rediculous thread. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I think what really hurt them was marketing. I have friends that look at my XB and don't even know what it is! I think that says more about your friends. Also to that end, do your friends recognize a KTM or Beemer by sight (not the badge?) Also regarding marketing....Buell was the largest force in AMA Pro racing this year, advertised for months on the inside cover (2 page spread mind you) of the major moto rags and even ran TV spots on Speed for a while. Not a marketing issue in my opinion. | ||
| Vtwinbuell |
Honestly, I have never met anyone that didn't ride a Harley or a Buell that knew what a Buell was, they simply weren't put in front of the target market, People see my bike and ask who makes it. When I say it's a Buell, they say that they thought the only bike Buell made was the Blast that they rode in the safety course. I think this had more to do with sales than the looks, it is an engineering marvel. Form follows function, as it should. | ||
| Amrra12 |
ft bstrd, I'm a tool? NO,NO! when you heard you mom saying "what a fuking tool" she was not referring to my personality! Common mistake! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Hey Thad, do you real think that Buell was canned because of sales or lack thereof? Do some reading. Granted if Buell was selling the heck out of the bikes, things might be different. However all maufacturers are 50% off--even your Jap bikes. Sales are down across the board, no matter the brand. In reality, Buell sales is such a minor thing to HD as a whole, it really doesn't make a difference to the bottom line--but it's looks good to the ignorant cause HD is "doing something" to save the ship. Bad sales includes Harleys, which brings us to the real reason of Buell's demise. HD borrowing money at outrageous interest rates and Harley owners defaulting on loans. Combine this with lousy sales and you have HD brass making decisions to save their ass. Erik Buell is the scapegoat. | ||
| Slypiranna |
If I didn't have a life...I'd post more to this thread than this. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Yep, you're a tool. | ||
| Miko_k |
Court, kill this thread please | ||
| Buellnick |
Don't forget about HD having a surplus of cash (not long ago) and WASTING it on MV AUGUSTA which was on the brink of demise. HD bought the company (MV) and assumed all the MV debt... If I was a major stockholder, I would be calling for some heads to roll... The loss of a viable motorcycle brand apparently means nothing to the corporate heads who see the future HD $$ signs in underpowered and overpriced cruisers, chrome, and death head skulls. | ||
| T_man |
Cut the guy (Thad) some slack... his points are valid. Lets be frank here; the 1125R had controversial styling from the get go - that alone probably cut potential sales in half. However, lets say the '08 1125R rolled out looking like Thad's beautiful racebike - Would twice the sales of 1125R change what HD did to Buell... ultimately? I doubt it. The HD ship is sinking - I'm glad Erik got off the Titanic when he did. Onwards and upwards. | ||
| Amrra12 |
fresnobuell, No, but i do think styling played a role in why buell never sold a shit ton more bikes! Buell is a great bike it just never had the looks to bring in the large crowds! And yes I understand that HD is a sinking ship of shit trying to save it self! And they had the "fog a mirror" financing plain! Due to there lack of sales they would give anyone a loan and this is never a good business idea! | ||
| Rocketsprink |
what the hell is a ZB12R? | ||
| Amrra12 |
T man thanks for that! But I’m not worried about the haters and I'm not worried about what they think of me! I was sold on my Buell hook line and sinker! It’s the most fun I have ever had on a bike and I glad I get to keep my race bike! and think the team at Buell is some of the best people on earth! Erik Buell took time out of his day to contact me and congratulate me on my race results! How many CEO's would do that? All I have to say about Buell is WOW what a bunch of great people they had working for them! My fault is with the fact that many other people could not and now will never see how great the 1125 is! And I think if they would have made the bike more marketable to the sport bike buyers there may have been a differnt oucome for Buell! | ||
| Vtwinbuell |
Revision 3? | ||
| Amrra12 |
Roc, are you kidding me? God I hope you are, and if your not THANK god for cross walk signs "A' other wise you would have been ran over a long time ago. On a key board the "z" and the "X" are next to each other sooooooooo Typo …XB12r…. Ohh and if you “look UP” in a rain storm and start to drowned, all you have to do is look down and you will be OK! | ||
| R2s |
Its the economy, and different is a good thing. It is also the new head guy at HD that is making the decisions. Buell made good bikes they were just marketed poorly. | ||
| P_squared |
2nd they don’t stray so far from the norm that they isolate themselves from the common buyers! That's just it though, isn't it? The "norm" isn't what Buell is about. Erik & his creations have never been about the status quo. They've been about engineering something outside of the box that works. You know this because you did it on 1 of his creations. You also know Buell the company was unlike the other "normal" companies as evidenced by the letter you received from Erik, handwritten, not typed after you won your championship. You have some seemingly valid points on the surface, but when looked at objectively with all the facts & history, they're wrong. Buell had to be different and sometimes that’s not a bad thing but it held there sales down! Have you considered the reason they were different is because their ideas actually work? The only reason that would hold sales down is because some potential buyers are more interested in spec sheets than actual performance. Some of us are more interested in function & performance than spec sheets. #1 The 1125R should have been a full fairing bike Says you. Buell’s history has been more successful with naked bikes than full faired bikes. There’s a reason fairings weren’t put on from the factory. If you’re building a bike that is not the “norm” why would you try to make it look like the “norm?” You don’t. #2 it should have been chain drive If they were designed & sold for the track, absolutely. They weren’t though. A belt makes better sense for the street on so many different levels, it beats the chain. #3 it should have had better styling! The bike just never took off! This is Buells fault, and this is why YOU NEVER let engineers design how a bike will look! As Buell did! IMO Buell tried to be so different then the rest it cost them $ and then the time ran out! The styling was definitely controversial. Folks either liked it or hated it. No in between, similar to the styling of the 999. The difference though is that engineers did “design” this bike based on function. It works, as you so well know. The 1125 wasn’t the final nail in the coffin for Buell. HDI’s financial situation and their new CEO were the final nail in the coffin. Unless Buell were able to build & sell 100+ times their normal production, there was no way the outcome would have been different. Erik & his creations have always been about not only rethinking the "norm" from an engineering standpoint, but making the rider rethink the "norm" as well. It takes a person who is confident in themselves to run against "the herd" and thereby start changing what the "norm" really is. | ||
| Skully |
If you don't like Buell, don't ride one. Keith | ||
| Slypiranna |
What?! Now you reeled me back in... The 11 was NOT marketed poorly nor was any Engineering Design Intent "off". For the newbies relevant to a business entity being controlled from an outside influence...imagine the following; Time element and the management meetings that force a release before EVERYTHING is totally proven of a new production/consumer advertised offering... Duh. Hence the proof of all the updates/bent over backwards customer service/warranty/buy backs that BMC proved since the 11 was first introduced. This is fact to those that can appreciate reality. Buell remains the best in overall customer satisfaction that I have ever dealt with relevant to two or more wheels. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, wrong and misguided though it be... <sigh> R | ||
| Slypiranna |
+1000EEEEEEE Carbonbigfoot! Bias and/or censorship shouldn't rule out any one's public, open and honest opinion. | ||
| Amrra12 |
P squared, I fully agree with most of what you said. My point is that sometimes you need to make what the people want, so you can show them what they need! A sword is not built for war, the war will come once they see how well built the sword is! "Art Of War" | ||
| Slaughter |
I scratch my butt when it itches. |
