| Author | Message | ||
     Fridaymorningquaback |
Don't make the same mistake twice. I will miss BMC. Done a lot of fun miles great stories, Had the racing banner in the garage stickers on the trucks and all the shirts gloves and Buell helmets ever made. Bought 5 new ones over the years and sold at least four to others by handing the keys to mine for a spin. Watched as Bike Magazine awarded the Firebolt the best handling bike in the world. I was accepted here. Then the 1125 comes out. without re living the long list of errors that marred intro I want to speak of the Koolaid people that called nay sayers Trolls. If the bike looked and acted like an XB but with a world class (and Rotax is as good as it gets) engine all the money spent would have cemented Buell as MVP in the Harley lineup. So now everyone is blaming Harley. I say your making the same mistake again. The blame lies in the design, quality control timing of its release. The bike was no where near ready all you had to do was look at it to tell. now three model years in people are still complaining about the same stupid troubles there were in 08. I made a statement then the 08s value was $4,000 as a track bike. Well now you can buy one for $4,000. Why were people that wanted the best for Buell kicked from this fourm. A true enthusiast tells the truth even if it hurts. Editing the news to Buell only prolonged the pain. STOP BASHING HARLEY They own the goods, this gives them a chance to re-enter the sports bike market with a clean slate. It would have taken years to clear the Buell name from the 1125 fiasco. I want my Belt driven twin cylinder AMERICAN made bike back. I pray Harley re badges, updates and re releases the bikes. The only Blame they have in Buells death is they obviously were not watching closely what was going on as their one big chance to make a world class bike was squandered and damaged the brand. I am an enthusiast, I back Harley in their marketing powers to bring back Sport Bikes better than ever. The handling of the buells, the power of a Rotax, what it will be called does not mater as long as its reliable and competitive in quality and looks to the market place. IF you guys really want Erik Buell the engineers ideas to live then stop the rose colored glass crap back Harley during this tough economy and lets get our bikes back. This time World Class no excuses. America can do it. signed The artist formally known as brad1445 banned from here. | ||
| R2s |
Are you seriously blaming the 1125R (the best motorcycle Buell has made to date) for the downfall of Buell. You are entitled to your opinion, and I am as well. You sir are an Idiot. | ||
| R2s |
Their main mistake is not separating themselves enough from Buell to allow it to grow into something more than just a sportbike for Harley enthusiasts. most of whom don't like sportbikes in the first place. Even though the bikes were good, they were not accessible to their target market. It was not the product, but the way it was presented. You got it all wrong. Buell had a future, it was just in the wrong hands. People who don't even believe in or understand the product that Buell had to offer. | ||
| Fridaymorningquaback |
follow the discounts if it was untarnished there is a demand for American products look at Ford | ||
| Pizzaboy |
OMG BRAD WE MISSED YOU SOO MUCH!! ITS SOO NICE TO HEAR FROM YOU! | ||
| Fmaxwell |
@Fridaymorningquaback (Brad1445) While Buell's initial teething problems on the 1125r were a setback, what killed Buell was Harley's mishandling of the brand. Rather than letting Buells compete on the showroom floors with Aprilia, KTM, Ducati, and the Japanese manufacturers, they limited Buell sales to Harley dealerships. They viewed Buell as a way to bring a younger crowd into Harley dealerships. They hoped that the 25 year old who bought the Buell would come back in a few years, fat, tattooed, and ready to buy a "Hog." They didn't view it as a brand unto itself. Same thing with MV Agusta -- and why that made no sense either. Harley dealers had little interest in taking up valuable floor space with a low-profit, low-sales-volume, Firebolt or 1125r Buells when they could put a similarly priced Sportster there. They saw the progression that typically goes from Sportster to {fill in the blank} Glide. There was no similar progression from Buell to Harley anything. Since the vast majority of Harley riders had no interest in seeing a "crotch rocket," most of the Harley dealers would have just a few Buells (not even one of each model). Want to see a Ulysses? They might have one. Or they might just have a Blast and one of last year's Firebolts. They also knew that the typical Buell customer might buy a tank bag or some optional Traction grips, but that he wasn't likely to be in there every weekend buying Screamin' Eagle chrome exhausts, chrome skull tire valve caps, chrome kickstands, Harley branded leather jackets, T-shirts, helmets, coffee mugs, fanny packs, Screamin' Eagle sissy bars, and all of the other crap where HD dealers make their real profits. Limiting Buell to being sold only at Harley dealers meant that most of their potential buyers never even saw a Buell when they chose what bike to buy. I can drive down the road to Coleman Powersports and choose from Ducati, Aprilia, Honda, Suzuki, Kawasaki, and Yamaha if I want a sport bike, naked bike, or adventure bike. And I'd not see a single Buell there. That's why so many potential Buell customers never bought a Buell (or even sat on one). If Harley had been interested in really selling Buells, as opposed to using them as a gimmick to get people into Harley dealerships, the Buell brand would be alive, healthy, and profitable. | ||
| Cheddarheads4erik |
Boy, some monstrous ethnocentricity here; thinking that the entire WORLD must spin as it does in the USA. Buells were seperated from the H-Ds in Europe, where they were sold in the MV Augusta dealerships. Like hotcakes. Am I wrong? I heard the Buells were also sold @ MV dealers. Buell sales were NOT down anywhere near as far as the H-D cruiser things. Nobody is bashing Harley-they are bashing the jackass Wandell who is the new CEO, and his entire goon squad they allowed to move in with him. IIRC, he came in to H-D after virtually destroying Johnson Controls, in the same manner. He's the Gordan Gecko of Wisconsin and is already reaping the whirlwind, as we pontificate and debate. He is writing it off as a tax benefit. GM did the same things with it's most successful facilities; tax law favors this kind of BS. | ||
| Weszo |
I was one of the rider's who stopped to look at a Buell at a HD shop. I liked the Buell except for the engine, Buell didn't have the 1125 engine at the time. Ended up purchasing the VRSCR, traded the VRSCR for the 1125R back in September 2009. If HD (Buell)would have had the 1125R the first time around, I would have purchased it without a second thought. Without Buell, the only motorcycle manufacturer that peeks my interest is Aprilia. | ||
| R2s |
Fmaxwell, you hit it right on the head. My sport bike riding friends don't go into Harley dealers, No one can make them. Its a clash of cultures. We are not young kids, we are middle age serious riders who just love performance. Harley doesn't make anything of interest to us. Even when I want to take it easy I ride my sport tourer. I also didn't look at Buell until they got a legitimate power plant(Rotax). Harley treated Buell like a beginners bike, a stepping stone to a Harley Davidson. I personally will never go that route. Their bikes can't do what I need a bike to do. HD kept Buell's hidden from their target market, a place were no sport bike rider wants to go. | ||
| Hellgate |
>>>>>Without Buell, the only motorcycle manufacturer that peeks my interest is Aprilia. The new RSV4 is simply amazing. I'm really thinking about the base model in white, simply stunning...very well sorted out of the box too. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Hey Brad....welcome back! Now go f@@k yourself!  | ||
| Ratgin |
HD didnt close Buell over sales. They admitted they didnt even look at the finances of Buell. The MOCO is in deep due to the HD finance wing over defaulted loans. They borrowed 1 billion from Buffet at 15% and with sales down they are sinking fast. How do you use that cash your paying back at 15% to give to lenders at 2% and not expect to lose your shirt? For HD to survive they had to cut everything and try to save the parent company, If the recession lasts till the end of 2010 HD will likely be owned by Buffet. (Message edited by ratgin on October 19, 2009) | ||
| Fridaymorningquaback |
Fresno, you still don't get it. Your detachment from reality is the worst here. If Buell could have executed the production of the water cooled generation correctly we would not be here talking. Thats why they have $5,000 rebates on 1125’s and, XB's only $3,000 because people want XB’s and they perform. I’m not here to say I told you so over Buell’s death. I’m here to say we now have a chance now for a clean start. I think this is exciting that Harley can now use all the good stuff from the XB lines and make a water-cooled version correctly with no stigma from the 1125's. For this to work Harley needs open honest discussions. To me that’s a true enthusiasms’. I want my American made twin back. Harley needs true honest support to launch a new line of sport bikes. Don't blankly patronize, and don’t accept anything then the best. America can do this. Basements of 08’s are now hitting the road. This is our second chance. Now they can sell new bikes without the fear or stigma the 1125 placed over the brand. BE HAPPY, there is a silver lining | ||
| Froggy |
I will be polite and just say I disagree with you, the 1125 had nothing to do with the discontinuing of Buell. A good chunk of the 150 million being spent to close Buell is to terminate the contract with Rotax. Harley signed their own death warrant, so hopefully things will turn out great for Buell in the future and he can pickup where he left off. Not sure what issues you are talking about, but my 09 that I bought a few months ago hasn't had a single thing go wrong and hasn't been back to the dealer for anything. I am at 5000 miles, but I don't ride it every day as thats what my Blast is for. (85mpg and $30 tires can't be beat!). I intend on taking advantage of this program to pickup a dirt cheap 08, as I want a spare bike to hack to bits  | ||
| Fridaymorningquaback |
I'm afraid the 2008 reputation runied the entire line. I hear it all the bike clubs and circles even dealers! Buell thinks your blast is a better end table than a bike. These are the poor Buell management errors that are long lasting. I liked my b Blast that’s why I bought 4 more Buells. Compare Harley to triumph, they still sell traditional cruisers but added others to the line over the years. Harley now can now do the same and save the battle of trying to resuscitate the damaged Buell Brand. WE can point to this or that Harley did a smart thing for tax purposes, but the fact is that if dealers were selling the 20081125 series sitting in their basements they would have kept a good thing going. I see the glass half full, and hope to be buying a well thought-out Harley sportbike in the near future. | ||
| Ratgin |
Friday If you had a clue you would be embarrassed for posting that trash. Go and read about WHY HD is in trouble and WHY they had to close Buell and sell off MVA Harley-Davidson has no idea how much money, if any, it will save by killing Buell. Discussing the decision, Harley CFO John Olin says, "We have not quantified the benefits of increased focus on [the] Harley-Davidson brand as a result of discontinuing Buell nor included any potential savings in our restructuring estimates." HD will be lucky is they pull threw till next summer. It has nothing to do with Buell and HD isnt making any sport bikes anytime soon. They are fighting to keep in business and have stopped the production of all sportsters as well. Think borrowing 1 billion at 15% and then handing out millions of it to unqualified buyers at 2% who ended up defaulting on loans anyways. Describing the cause, Olin says, "On a year-to-date basis, [Harley-Davidson Financial Services] has incurred $110.8 million loss...HDFS continues to be adversely impacted by the current economic environment." Mr Buffett wants his cash and his interest. When your core sales are down 83% its tough to repay loans. It turns out it already has, borrowing $700 million over three years at 1.2% under the Federal Reserve's TALF mortgage-backed securities program. That brings the total that Harley has borrowed in order to see it through this crisis to $1.9 billion, with roughly half that amount costing them 15% interest.} (Message edited by ratgin on October 19, 2009) (Message edited by ratgin on October 19, 2009) | ||
| Cheddarheads4erik |
"I'm afraid the 2008 reputation runied the entire line. I hear it all the bike clubs and circles even dealers!"-Friday Man, you put a pretty manipulative spin down here with this one. You'll have to be more specific about WHAT it was that ruined an entire Corporation in 2008, and perhaps learn how to spell and put a sentence together properly. Let me better define what I mean so there's no misunderstanding; In order to be considered something other than a troll on this topic you have to fully explain your position with reasons, facts, and some logic. Connect these things together in a related communication which makes coherent sense, or support, for your position. Simply being an offensive nay-sayer is not what earned you the badge of "troll", but spewing your incoherent BS which is interjected with incomplete sentences, misspelling, and unrelated incomplete points of nothingness worked pretty good. I have heard ZERO clubs, riders, or dealers speak about the 2008 model line in a negative fashion, PERIOD. Now, put together some facts and figures on recalls or NHSTA problems related to accidents or deaths and you might have something, but you don't. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Fresno, you still don't get it. And you are still an a$$hole. You are not the voice of reason. You are not the savior of American Sportbikes. You are not even a fan of Buell. You MIGHT be a fan of Harley, but I think you are saying it to strike a nerve here. That's your MO. After I read the first post of your drivel and figured out what idiot wrote it, I haven't bothered to read any more. I will comment that anyone that thinks that the decision to pull the plug on Buell had anything to do with Buell itself is very mistaken. Anyone that will go as far as blame it on one model of bike is a complete douchebag. That opinion is based on some preconceived hate of the 1125r stemming back from the introduction of the bike. Yeah Brad, some of us have been around since then and remember your embarrassing public display and subsequent banishment. Remember? Go ahead and post away while you can. I am sure Blake will pull the plug when he see that you have come back to spew your ignorance. Bro, you have no class whatsoever. Even if you spoke the truth, to come back here just to twist the knife speaks volumes about your as a person. | ||
| Budo |
Yeah the 2008 bikes had problems. The real problem from my perspective was that each year continued to have the same problems. Fueling issues, electrical issues. I don't know how many posts I have seen here where a new Buell owner barely made it home before his bike died or did not make it home and had it towed back to the dealership or it falied to start the next day. To buy a new bike and have it not start the next day is unacceptable for anyone! I had this experience myself. My local dealer, Bumpas HD/Buell of Memphis (whom has a well deserved bad reputation) had a demo day. I chose the black 1125CR, it would not start, flat battery. The red 1125CR did start so we rode the loop. It was ok. Then I took out a xr1200, and the escort rode the red 1125CR. This bike died on him four times and barely got him back to the dealership. The XR1200 on the other hand ran great! Lots of people have posted here about how many times they have had to put their new 1125 in the shop waiting weeks for a resolution or waiting weeks for a non resolution. | ||
| Jaimec |
Somebody doesn't remember all of the teething problems the Firebolt went through in it's first couple of years. How many belt revisions did it go through (for example)?? NO ONE gets it right the first time. Not even almighty Honda! Or has everyone forgotten all the problems with the GL1800 GoldWing when it first came out? Can't WAIT to see all of the issues with that new VFR1200, by the way... | ||
| Fridaymorningquaback |
Fresno, So the problem is people like me, that bought 5 New Buells. And the problem is Harley the people that footed the bill to build the XB bikes and then the Basements full off 2008 1125R's. If the newly invested in 1125 was a sales success how much better would Harley bottom line look. So you bash Harley that financed the creation of the 5 Buells that customers like me paid for. The lightning was still the best selling Buell, does that help you understand. Yeah I'll get booted again even though you name calling with no substance to your thinking. I see light where the bike can get a second chance you just spew hate and cuss words. Look at the Triumph line up, Harley can do the same thing with a fresh start. | ||
| Crogers72 |
Fridaymorningquaback WTF are you smoking? I've read your ridiculous rantings (and you are entitled to do so), but I and everyone I've ever talked to aside from the people looking for help in this forum loves their 1125's. I'm not sure where you are getting your info and it seems to me as if you are making assumptions about the masses from a few complainers (such as yourself) from this and other forums. This is a place for people to post questions to problems and get answers. If the 1125 sunk Buell, then I'd like to see the proof. Please post your information citing specific references. Otherwise STFU. | ||
| Fridaymorningquaback |
I'n not talking about the happy customers, I'm talking about public perception and the potential customer base. A water Cooled XB should have been one of the best selling sport bikes on the market. | ||
| Froggy |
Harley makes more money selling T-shirts and stickers than they do selling Buells. Buell has always been a drop in the bucket compared to HD's. Last year Buell sold 13,000 motorcycles while Harley sold over 250,000. Slightly lower Buell sales this year due to the economy was not a factor in the discounting of the Buell lineup.
Actually, Harley didn't spend a dime on the 1125R. It was paid for by the proceeds from the XB program. Just wanted to straighten that out.
Not really, again going back to the drop in the bucket situation. I agree about the Triumph thing. Harley needs to expand to be more than cruisers. Screaming Eagle version of the BMW GS 1200 Adventure? That tickles my fancy | ||
| Amrra12 |
You say the 1125R is to blame for the down fall of Buell? man is you high? the 1125R was what was to save Buell there 1st attempt at a {sorry Buell fans} real sport bike! sure it had is short comings but all 1st year bikes do! But tell me if the 1125R was such a piece shit why has it wan more races then any other Buell to date! lets face facts HD makes shity bikes with old antiquated technology! there sales have been down for years so someone at HD came up with a dumb idea " Finance anyone who can fog a mirror" and they did and repos came back in the truck loads! HD is a dyeing company and they have been for some time! | ||
| Drawkward |
Fridaymorningquaback - "I see the glass half full, and hope to be buying a well thought-out Harley sportbike in the near future." Harley hasn't been innovative in over 50 years. Nothing they do is cutting edge...ever! I think you'll be waiting for a loooong time for Harley to create a Harley sportbike. Harley's idea of a sportbike is that glorified Sportster they call the XR1200...which is a joke. I've read through your posts about this whole situation and I must say you are delusional. I don't know what your agenda is by being this far off the mark, but it's really crazy to hear your ideas. I'll be picking up my 1125R on friday, and I can't freaking wait!!! | ||
| P_squared |
I'n not talking about the happy customers, I'm talking about public perception and the potential customer base. A water Cooled XB should have been one of the best selling sport bikes on the market. You're an idiot. I will miss BMC...STOP BASHING HARLEY...I pray Harley re badges, updates and re releases the bikes. And pardon me if I don't take you at your word of being a, "Buell supporter." You're a naysayer. You were a naysayer when you posted here as Brad1445. If Erik & Flick had just listened to you, we wouldn't be having this conversation according to you, right? Get over yourself unless you can point to what experience & qualifications you have that trump theirs. I've heard it all before out of you, of how the 1125 is a stylistic abortion/engineering catastrophe/mistake/etc. You're a broken record with nothing USEFUL to contribute. Brad, go pontificate somewhere else. You're not welcome here. | ||
| Pizzaboy |
Brad, I think you're CUTE AND CUDDLY! I REALLY with HD, flick and Erik had just listened to YOU and your INFINITE WISDOM! Hey maybe harley will hire you on when they try to continue making sportbikes under their own badge?? Send them your resume! | ||
| Sportster_mann |
I think that you will find that the new Triumph started in the sports bike market and then moved into retro/cruisers - a much easier task. As to Buell being their own downfall - do you honestly believe that they had any real say in it - Harley controlled everything about Buell - if the 1125R was flawed it was because Harley insisted on it being brought to market too early and penny pinched on its production. To be honest I'm amazed about what Erik and Buell as a company managed to achieve given Harley's involvement. | ||
| Gman5700 |
Listen Brad or whatever your name is this time. First of all, if the 1125 is such a poor machine then I really don't believe it would be the AMA champ now would it. If Buell was a poor designer of bikes and Aprilia is so much better then maybe you should talk to someone at Aprilia and let them explain how their "mass centralization" in the RSV4 allowed them to shorten the wheelbase and create a better handling machine. I'll be damned if that doesn't sound like a Buell design theory. Quite frankly Buell is closing for one reason only...the economy sucks and Buell just didn't have enough time to grow and get big enough to handle such a downturn in sales. As far as HD being better if this economy stays as bad as it is it will probably bring about their demise as well and then who you gonna blame. No one hear has all the answers and no one here hasn't made mistakes we are all human and although we respect your right to your opinion please show us the same courtesy. You were obviously banned from here for a reason so be a man and respect the boards decision to ban you and go to some other site to bad mouth Buell and the 1125r. Just don't go to the track to bad mouth it because it has an attitude and will beat your piss ant jap bike any day of the week and you know it so SHUT UP! | ||
| Usmoto |
I think HD made a mistake by buying Buell in the first place. They have never really been into sport type bikes. I do like the V Rod muscle but after all it's still a cruiser. Buyin Buell was just something for them to do on a Sunday. Hopefully Erik and company can get into making bikes again and this time keep it all in house. Good luck Erik, you've got a big family out here. | ||
| Slypiranna |
Fridaymorningquaback, Even tho I don't agree with you on some of your content... I do respect your opinion and am glad to see a previously banned (username) Bueller posting honestly, just the same! Above all, by you coming back into the mix, it proves you must give a damn about the effort enough to do so. Keeps the field even.  Welcome back Buell brother!  mm | ||
| Fridaymorningquaback |
Thank you Slypiranna. I do care deeply. I loved my XB's. My criticism was only meant as my personal opinion for my favorite Bike Manufacture. But coming from marketing I know it would take to long and to many marketing dollars to change the publics perception of the 1125 and now the blast adds. I would love to see these bikes reappear as Harley sport bikes so the slaesman treatthem like a triumph salesman does with a wide line of bike offerings. It would mean a Harley mechanic would have to know how to work on them. WE have a second chance to get a world class water cooled XB handling bike to market. That is my hope to keep the greatness of these bikes alive. Harley needs support not just protest. YOu appreciating open discussion and opposing opinions is the secret to well run companies. No one person has all the answers and a room full of yes men are of zero value. Ask Colin Powell. | ||
| Fridaymorningquaback |
Gman5700 Posted on Monday, October 19, 2009 - 05:45 pm: Listen Brad or whatever First of all, if the 1125 is such a poor machine then I really don't believe it would be the AMA champ now would it. _______________________________ Thats right! Rotax makes the best engines in the world. This why the 1125 series could have been a barn buster market dominating monster. Not every one has a team of mechanics and the race bike is far more aesthetically pleasing also. I dont want to focus on the past, I want to help Harley keep the technology its dollars allowed erik to develop alive. The Buell name is a non starter. Give Harley a chance. My god I don't even like Harleys but I do think it could me the fastest way to get the bikes to market with a clean slate in a full line dealership similar to Triumph. |
