| Author | Message | ||
     Nik |
At 46k miles and change I figured I'd check it at my next oil change. This is what I found...   Al from American Sport Bike says this is the worst one he's ever seen that hasn't failed. It probably wouldn't have made it through the track day I'm doing at the end of the month. It's worn consistently all the way around. All the teeth are worn to a sharp edge and if not handled with care they can cut. Also notice the wear is fairly vertical along the teeth, so the teeth themselves are only ~30-50 thou where they engage the oil pump. The bike had no symptoms of any kind. So next time you change your oil pull the oil pump and take a peek at the gear. The gasket is cheap. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
How long did it take you to pull the oil pump? How did you do it? I kind of remember that it was a pretty big job. How difficult was it to change the gear? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Nik-  I'd say you got your money's worth out of that gear! Glad you caught it in time. G_J- pulling the oil pump is easy- 10 minute job tops. The problem is the gear in question is on the end of the crankshaft and drives the gear on the oil pump (I wonder why they didn't put the "soft" gear on the oil pump so it would be easy to swap?). By the book, you have to remove both rocker boxes from the heads (to relieve pressure on the valve lifters and cams) and then pull the right side engine cover. Some have managed to do the change by removing only one rocker cover and turning the engine so the lifters for the other cylinder are unloaded. When I replaced the gear on my S3, it probably took me about 8 hours, with a few judicious breaks when I'd get frustrated (like when all 4 cams fell out when I carefully removed the side cover!). | ||
| Aptbldr |
What are bike's engine oil(s)? I understand design affects wear significantly: tooth counts, tolerances & materials. Scary October topic, thanks, Nik. : ) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Cut that one pretty close!  I dropped the pump on my 05 XB9SX at about 15k miles and saw minor wear, but not bad. I have a new pump and gear sitting on the shelf waiting for a winter project... there is a stealth update on the 05 oil pumps, and the new "gold" gear is a much more durable material (some kind of fancy alloy). | ||
| Hughlysses |
Aptbldr- This is a known issue that afflicts some Buells and not others. Fix is to install updated 06-up bronze gear. If you've got an 06 or newer XB, you probably don't have to worry about it. | ||
| Aptbldr |
Thanks, Hugh. Random failure mode is what I was referencing, too. An updated gear was among first accessory items I bought for the mighty XB. Now, I just need a round toit, and it would be installed. | ||
| Socalbueller |
I got 47,000 on mine and it is at Simi Harley getting the gear changed right now. The guys at the dealership didn't think I needed to get it changed but I told them to do it anyways I know it's going to be $$$$. Nik, are going to be at Streets of Willow Nov 1? | ||
| Nik |
Nik, are going to be at Streets of Willow Nov 1? That's the plan. | ||
| Sokota |
Reepicheep what is a "stealth update" on the 05 pump ? | ||
| Reepicheep |
There is a minor change to the pump that came stock, one that supposedly works a little better... I think if you go get the latest part number, you will get the newest version, which is the new pump. I think it was the 06 or 07 model, the last one before they updated to the new "cam cover" oil pump. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Improved oil pump introduced on 2007's:  | ||
| Schmitty |
Mine went BANG on my race bike because I didn't realize that the engine builder left the old steel version in. NOT PRETTY!!! End result, cases destroyed, Redshift 585 cams destroyed, and an entire racing season down the tubes! It will be the best $50 you can spend on the longevity of your motor. Schmitty | ||
| Aptbldr |
What's the "cam cover pump" change look like? Any photo or exploded diagram links? | ||
| Reepicheep |
I don't think its an easy retrofit... the 07 pump is probably the right update to the 06 and earlier XB's. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Aptbldr- just look at the cam cover on any 08-up Buell. I think there were some drawings posted of an XBRR engine (which uses the same setup) but I can't find them. MAJOR retrofit job if possible at all. | ||
| Sokota |
How much $ for the pumps? My 05 XB9SX has no scavenging or wet sumping issues ? This thread is quite a motivator....talk about in the "nik" of time , a stitch in time saves..... cams , pumps , cranks . By the hair of a chinny chin chin ...... | ||
| Hughlysses |
IIRC the updated oil pump is somewhere around $150. Just remember, changing the oil pump provides a minor improvement in the oiling and does NOT address the gear issue. You've got to pull the cam cover and change the drive gear on the crank. | ||
| Sokota |
Yes the gear is the main concern as there has been no issues with the pump. Get to see the innards ......woo-hoo ! This bike is a keeper and has become even more "special" due to the current event. I hope Erik is able to cut strings with HD and become a free agent. | ||
| Zoink |
Well...since you've got 46k miles on yours should I be worried any time soon for my 03 with 7k miles? | ||
| Spike |
I'm missing a step here- Pulling the oil pump lets you inspect the pump itself, but the problematic gear is still buried in the cam chest. Can the drive gear be viewed through the hole left by the oil pump well enough to do a proper inspection? Anyone have pictures? Also, I've heard that by turning the motor to near TDC you can minimize the load on the cams and get away with pulling the cam cover without touching the top end. Has anyone tried it? It would make replacing the gear a really simple task. If it could be done that easily I'd almost skip the inspection process and just buy the new drive gear and a cam cover gasket. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Spike- You can see the gear through the hole vacated by the oil pump, but the easiest way to check it is to take photos with your digital camera and view them on your computer. It's a bitch to lay on your back under the engine and try to hold a flashlight while you peep up in the hole to see the gear. Here's a photo Reepicheep posted of the gear on his M2 some time ago:  You can see how several of the teeth are "cut" in the photo. If they're really bad, they'll look like the photos at the top of the thread. The trick is to drop the oil pump and take a photo. Bump or turn the engine over a few degrees and take another. Repeat at least 4 or 5 times. Generally these gears (IF they're worn) will wear much worse on one side than the other, so you need to rotate the engine so you can check the teeth all around. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Sorry, this was hashed out in the tuber days so I was assuming people had a lot of knowledge... 1) The oil pump pinion gear (the one on the crank) wears on some bikes, but not on others. Probably related to tolerance stackup or something. It'll wear to a knife edge, then chunk out, doing really bad things to your motor. 2) Buell put out a replacement pinion gear made of super special something or other, that solves the problem. $50 part, probably being sold at a loss, but a complicated (but not rocket science) install. The gear works with XB's and (AFAIK) tubers. 3) The oil pump upgrade was a minor tweak. If you are replacing the oil pump anyway for some reason, get the new one. If you find a deal on a used new version (I stalked people parting out bikes), get it. Otherwise, run your current pump. 4) You absolutely can inspect the gear through the hole after you remove the pump. Click on my name to the left and look at my profile picture... that was taken with a nikon coolpix in macro mode through the oil pump hole in my tuber. You will have to crawl under the thing with a flashlight though. You want to somehow turn the crank a couple times so you can check both sides of the gear, it can wear *really* assymetrically. I put it in 5th with the rear wheel off the ground and manually turned it with my hands. You will need a new oil pump gasket to be safe... but might be able to reuse the one on there. 5) The gear in my profile pic was probably replaced prematurely. Thats enough wear on there to know my bike eats them, but not enough to be much of a risk yet. I replaced it for peace of mind, but suspect it would have lasted another 10k to 20k miles easy. So it's worth dropping the oil pump next time you are in the neighborhood (like when you are changing oil) when an XB has 20k miles or so. On a tuber, you might want to do it closer to 10k. That tells you if you have a "gear eater" or not. If you do, just plot a good time to replace it and put in the updated factory part... a saturdays work... not trivial, but no big deal either. Here is the picture from my 9sx... again just pulling off the oil pump. Much better wear then the M2 (at higher miles then the M2 had), but enough that I started collecting parts for a winter day.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hugh and I crossed threads. Cool that we agree  HD may not support you, but Buell enthusiasts will | ||
| Hughlysses |
Hugh and I crossed threads. Cool that we agree Some of us already went through this on tubers so we know where to look! It's nice to do something on here other than bitch and moan about HD.  BTW- the new gear is made of bronze; original gear was evidently unhardened steel. (Message edited by Hughlysses on October 16, 2009) | ||
| Nik |
BTW- the new gear is made of bronze; original gear was evidently unhardened steel. The original gear is case hardened steel. Once you wear through the hard candy outside into the soft chocolate center it doesn't last long. The new gear is a consistent hardness all the way through. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I think the zippers gear (which was the solution in the tuber days) was bronze. I *think* the new factory part is some sort of beryllium or something. I think it's the stuff the made Wolverine out of | ||
| Hughlysses |
IIRC it's beryllium bronze (also called beryllium copper): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryllium_copper I'm still trying to find some unobtainium to make my own.  (Message edited by Hughlysses on October 16, 2009) | ||
| Aptbldr |
Link to XBRR pictures http://www.hillbilly-motors.com/html/xbrr_engine.h tml XBRR (& latest) oil pump axis rotates 'up' and into alignment with drive axis; instead of original's right-angle drive change. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Cool! From that wikipedia article...
I learn something every day! |
