| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Around here MV Agustas are sold alongside Aprilia, Moto Guzzi, KTM, Ducati, Triumph, Bimota and BMW. Wouldn't be too hard to put Buell in there too. http://www.goldcoast-motorsports.com/ | ||
| Greg_e |
What is so wrong with Buell/Suzuki/Yamaha/Honda? Any one of those or all of them should go equally well with Buell. It's really up to how much time and energy you want to put in it, as well as advertising dollars put toward it. Even without watching the motorcycle specific shows/channels, how many Buell ads do you see on TV? How many Suzuki ads? How many Kawasaki ads? I don't think I have seen a regular Honda ad so they don't count. I have seen Suzuki and Kawasaki ads on channels that are not motor sports related. Once in a while you'll see an HD ad too but not nearly as often as Suzuki and Kawasaki. If you want to cater to the exotics, then the Aprilia, Buell, Ducati, etc. would be fine but to really make sure the place thrives you almost need Suzuki or Yamaha in the mix (or both). This would also bring in the squids that know nothing except top horsepower and top speed. The guy I bought my 9R from wasn't happy because it only did 120+mph on the streets and his friends with the GSXR (or whatever) would run away from him in the straighter sections. Do we really need bikes that will break 200mph on the road? But hey, the squids like them and if they were introduced to a Buell might actually buy them. I do know that most squids would never walk into a Harley dealership for anything, even if they were bleeding to death they wouldn't go in. Me I have no problem (our dealership looks like it is slightly smaller than Bumpus and is nice inside). That said Buells are still stuck in the corner, though it is a front corner with an 1125R up on a lift in the window. They do have some Buell gear, but not a lot and probably all on closeout. Lots of chrome HD stuff though. Up until the last year or two I would say they were thriving. Both times I've been in since getting my 9R they were pretty empty. (Message edited by Greg_E on October 12, 2009) (Message edited by Greg_E on October 12, 2009) | ||
| Fast1075 |
I have sold several Buells to people off the street that stopped to check out my bike...there is a guy riding a new Lobsta right now....the sale started when he walked up to talk about my bike at a show-n-shine event...I found him a knowledgable sales guy...(the guy that sold me my Jezebel) who came walking up with a test ride release form in his hand....20 minutes later, the guy drove up with a permagrin....he got off the bike, called his wife...told her to have the neighbor bring her to the shop so she could drive the truck home... | ||
| Zatco81 |
I think something that we're completely ignoring is the off-road offerings from the "big four." I wonder how much of their sales is attributed to dirt bikes and quads, something Buell and the other exotics mentioned above doesn't have. | ||
| Oddball |
I don't think I've ever asked the question "what's it gonna take to put you on this bike today." Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Ft bstrd, I've had that line used before and listened to others getting it as well. I'd say it comes from car salesmen that switch to bikes. From all I've seen you have a good philosophy and quite a refreshing way about you. Hopefully you can forge that way into salesmen on the moco side of the isle as well after showing them it works.  | ||
| Buewulf |
"What is so wrong with Buell/Suzuki/Yamaha/Honda?" Buell doesn't have the street credibility with the target markets of those brands to be sold along side them in my opinion. Coming from outside of the Buell culture (just recently bought my first Buell), I can assure you that your average sales people selling GSXRs (and average buyers buying them) will treat the Buells just as lowly as most HD sales people do. Buells just don't fit the market definition in a number of ways, and they are priced at a premium compared to their Japanese counterparts making the sale even more difficult. That may change in the future depending on how Buell's race program goes (not too well so far), but it is what it is for now. The Buells need to be sold next to other "Premium" products that have looser market definitions. A BMW/Triumph/Buell dealership would probably be a good venue. | ||
| Ustorque |
That may change in the future depending on how Buell's race program goes (not too well so far), but it is what it is for now. Ah ha ha ha ha! Are you F*cking kidding me with this sh*t! I hate trolls, yeah that Buell race program is looking a little shakey. Ya know after that whole winning the championship and all. Now i know why i visit here less and less, oh and by the way, "Thanks again Danny Eslick"!  | ||
| Ourdee |
Danny Eslick "Slick": a class act. | ||
| Toomanyhobbies |
I only mention Buell/MV Agusta because they are both under Harley's corporate umbrella. Takes out any competition from other brands. For example, Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda and Triumph all have offerings which all directly compete with Harley's cruiser market. It'd be awkward to offer sportbikes and not the whole she-bang. I could see Aprilia, Husqvarna, BMW, ya know real niche bikes. | ||
| Buewulf |
Ah ha ha ha ha! Are you F*cking kidding me with this sh*t! I hate trolls, yeah that Buell race program is looking a little shakey. Ya know after that whole winning the championship and all. I meant not so well from a business standpoint (racing to produce sales of bikes). I know they won. Everyone does. Everyone also knows the rules are stacked in Buell's favor for the class. Everyone loves an underdog, but everyone hates an overdog. A lot of people who could be potential Buell customers are turned off by the fact the the deck is fixed so to speak. For the record, while the rules were very liberally interpreted and do cater to Buell, I think the edge it may (or may not) afford Buell has been largely inflated. I think Eslick did a great job and would have been competitive on any bike in the class. But perception counts, and perception is that Buell had a very unfair advantage. I haven't been a Buell owner long enough to know what a "Troll" is and what makes me one, but it is fine with me if you (Ustorque) continue to stop by less and less. | ||
| Buewulf |
Oh... and was just a little "Troll" humor, Ustorque. I hope the trolls like me don't discourage you from participating in what is one of the best rider forums I've seen. Stop by more and more!  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Buewulf, I think many here are sensitive to negative comments about Buell's racing season this year. There have been MANY really ridiculous protests made here to the point of becoming nauseating. I think Ustorque believed you to be part of the ridiculous rabble. I didn't take your comments as being significantly anti-Buell. From a sales stand point, I don't think we've seen the dividends yet. Down market, first year win, perceived advantage to Buell. Let's see if we can get a few more wins under our collective belts and then see what sales dividends come from the privateer effort. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Ah ha ha ha ha! Are you F*cking kidding me with this sh*t! I hate trolls, yeah that Buell race program is looking a little shakey. Ya know after that whole winning the championship and all. I believe the point Buewulf is making is the perceived view of Buell's racing success from outside the Buell culture- as in all the "hate" being spewed by the rest of the sportbike world. There is a measurable backlash, warranted or not, about the "unfairness" (albeit misunderstood) of both the 1125R in DSB and the 1125RR in Superbike. It remains to be seen if these issues will end being more helpful or hurtful to Buell in the public's eye. I personally do not buy into the "any publicity is good publicity" assertion- bad publicity is just, well, bad. Obviously took too long typing this response...  (Message edited by redbuelljunkie on October 12, 2009) | ||
| Jake318 |
I think we are thinking subjectively here . The average rider doesnt know of any .. deck stacking.. they just hear Buell won the championship . To the average joe rider that makes it a good sportbike. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
I think we are thinking subjectively here . The average rider doesnt know of any .. deck stacking.. they just hear Buell won the championship . To the average joe rider that makes it a good sportbike. Only if that "average rider" does not read magazines, surf the internet, hang out at sportbike dealerships, or talk to other "average riders". Hell, I've been amazed by fellow riders who I know are smart enough not to fall for the "unfair advantage" BS start arguing with me about why Buell should not be allowed to compete in either class. There is some serious bad juju out there concerning Buell right now. | ||
| Toomanyhobbies |
We are getting into dead horse territory... The point is there needs to be a shake-up at Harley. Whether it is Harley treating Buell like a mutant step brother or Harley nuturing it's investment is the issue. Harley as a corporation is in desperate need of help IMO what happens there will determine whether or not Buell makes it to it's 30th anniversary. (Message edited by toomanyhobbies on October 12, 2009) | ||
| Toomanyhobbies |
Also I think some help will come from the media outlets. If Buell can make believers of the editors, they will win over the public. Right now if you aren't Duc, Honda, or Suzuki they don't give a crap about you. | ||
| Xb984r |
Just an opinion, but it would be a bad idea to sell Buells along side bikes from the big 4. Imagine the typical sportbike rider going into a dealer and seeing the MSRP of a 1125 and the MSRP of a 600 RR, then they see that the 600's have been beating the 1125 in AMA/DMG racing on top of it the 600's at least look like the bikes that are racing. I wonder what bike they would be drawn to, and then they look and see a 1000 RR selling for the same MSRP as the 1125, not good for Buell. just my opinion though | ||
| Ustorque |
it is fine with me if you (Ustorque) continue to stop by less and less. Thanks Buewulf, thats the kind of response i like to see. i'm really proud of what Buell accomplished this year, we all should be. BadWeb is a great place....and it's a habit that is tough to give. I hope your ULY brings you as much happiness as my 9 brings me....Rock on boys! | ||
| Toomanyhobbies |
This racing tangent is dumb to me. Buell has the trophy in hand. That only means one thing. Either Buell has an amazing bike or an amazing rider. Either way, to me it can be done. If that will attract top tier riders to the brand that can win like Danny, then that is a heck of a start. So the point is moot because in racing, the news for Buell is good news or good news. Just patience... | ||
| Court |
Buell/Honda and Buell/Ducati dealers have existed since 1996. | ||
| Jake318 |
Buell also has a reliabilty problem being attached to Harley . Both good and bad reputations are hard to shake . Nissan had transmission problems and all you heard was .. at least its not an american car . Im not a brand follower in autos either but I was rather confused with those statements . If it had been a ford / chevy or chysler the same people would have been screaming bloody murder. But I digress. Realistically today een Harleys get 100k miles on them before being wore out due to good metal urgy and modern assembly techniques dispite ancient design . But being attached to Harley the Buell is automatically grouped into the AMF days of shaking bones and leaking gaskets . I can forsee MV Agusta being looked at as a once finely tuned piece of mechanical art into a rolling disater if a even a licence plate bolt comes loose | ||
| Court |
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| Jaimec |
Just my $.02 as to why it would be preferable to sell Buell alongside the European brands and NOT the Japanese. Your average squid is going to look at what his money is getting him. Putting a $12K Buell up against a $16K Ducati or a $20K MV Agusta makes the Buell look VERY attractive. Putting that same $12K Buell up against a Yamaha YZF-R1 cross-plane IL4 with "Throttle-by-Wire," traction control, and a boatload of more power for the same price tends to diminish the Buell in the eyes of the potential buyer. Remember: I'm not talking about people already sold on Buells... I'm talking about trying to attract someone who may not have ever considered one before. Buell vs. the European exotics looks good. Buell vs. the mass-produced bikes from Japan... not so much. A lot of "Potential Buyers" out there use the specifications page from their favorite squid publication as their sole resource. I know a couple of people like that myself. I'm pretty sure most of you do, too. | ||
| Buewulf |
Again speaking from my past as a Buell outsider, Buell has always been regarded as an underdog even more so than Ducati. (Ever seen Ducati's race budget compared to Honda?) Except for the true haters (and I've known a few), I and 90% of the guys I ride with (only one of whom has ever owned a Buell) would cross their fingers whenever a Buell lined up for a race no matter what brand of bike they preferred. Since the original post was about the possibility of "Buell on the way out" I am just saying I have seen that special optimism and regard for Buell deteriorate this past year, and it concerns me. They do need to win races for better brand recognition and street creds, but the press (word of mouth and editorial) needs to be good. And on the whole, I don't think it has been. And to counter someone else's argument that the average rider only cares who won, I'll argue from my experience that they also care about how well the rest of the community "accepts" their choice of ride. Buell doesn't need to win you guys over to survive. They desperately need to appeal to the non-believers out there. They'll need perception-positive race results and a dealer network that understands how to reach out to non-Harley cultures. (I think you'll start seeing them wherever MV's are sold to start with.) Here's to Buell and their efforts to spread the good word! And for the record, I am not "anti-Buell" or anti-any-bike. I've never been a Buell-Basher even when I didn't ride Buells, though I never really "understood" them until I got the Uly (the first bike I think I may never sell). I love all bikes. Period. | ||
| 46champ |
I don't think Buells need to be in dealers with other brands, they need to be in dealers by them selves. A lot of these multi line dealers have multi lines not so they can better serve the public but to keep other people from having a product line to compete against them. I don't work in the industry and I personally know 2 dealers that have done that. | ||
| Jaimec |
46champ: No, the REAL reason they carry multiple brands is because they can't make enough money selling a single brand. If you think you can pay the rent, taxes, utilities, insurance AND provide a competitive wage by selling JUST Benelli, for example, you'd be in for a rude awakening. Same applies to Buell. One of the reason there are so few BMW dealerships anymore is because of BMW NA's egotistical idea that a dealer could be profitable selling JUST their motorcycles and nothing else. A lot of good shops were forced to close (or give up the brand) because of that idiocy. It seems they've mended their ways because as I mentioned earlier the local BMW dealership now ALSO carries every other European brand EXCEPT Benelli. | ||
| Bigb1975 |
"I don't think Buells need to be in dealers with other brands, they need to be in dealers by them selves. A lot of these multi line dealers have multi lines not so they can better serve the public but to keep other people from having a product line to compete against them. I don't work in the industry and I personally know 2 dealers that have done that." Eliminating competition may be one reason to have multiple brands under a dealership, but the real reason (as I understand it), is that there are very few brands out there that sell enough on a monthly basis to support a dealership by themselves. The dealer has a bunch of fixed costs to cover like rent, utilities and salaries. You have to sell a lot of motorcycles to cover those expenses. Buell just doesn't move enough bikes. I think it needs to be combined with other brands for the model to work with dealers. | ||
| Slaughter |
We're out here in the Desert. I bet a shop selling Buells along with some dual sport and off-road machinery would survive... ... just thinkin. | ||
| Jake318 |
Buewulf I was the one who said the average rider just cares who won . I meant this in reguard as the average rider doesnt follow racing enough to know the 600cc 4cyl vs 1100cc twin contraversy. You do make a very valid point ( actually many in your responce ) that I myself didnt take in account was the riders self image amonst each other in a riding group. I like you have owned every major brand except Triumph ( and im tempted to one of those also but my garage wont hold any more bikes. But if Triumph does decide to make a 1000c triple, a piece of living room furniture will just have to go lol Jake |
