| Author | Message | ||
     Dsmitty25 |
Can anyone help me with finding ecmspy software?? I think I have a cable at work.. Thanks | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I heard it's no longer available for download. Something about the author was pissed that others were using it for profit? | ||
| Buellsrule |
I can help. pm me with your email. | ||
| Easyrider |
fresno, They received a letter from HD (-: | ||
| Rfischer |
Correction: "They received a letter from H-D's lawyers." Fixed it for ya'  | ||
| Chadhargis |
Humm...would like to read that letter. If someone buys a bike, it's theirs....not HD's. They should be able to do whatever they damn well please to it, including tuning the ECM. | ||
| Rfischer |
No offense Mate, but what century are you living in?? Here's a clue: intellectual property. It belongs to the developer/copyright owner/patent owner. Those rights are enforceable worldwide if so registered. While you as an owner may hack the software for your own purposes and run only risk of prosecution from local homologation authorities, if someone does so and then puts it to commercial purposes, that is an intellectual property theft and actionable by the registered owner of that property. ECMSPY is one of those cases. Shortly put, you bought a bike, not the technology used to make the bike what it is. (Message edited by rfischer on October 08, 2009) | ||
| Chadhargis |
Yeah, but I stand by my statement that I can do whatever I want to my own bike. It's mine. If I want to tune it, that's not any sort of intellectual property infringement unless I try to crack the ECM and sell the code to someone. ECMSpy was free (at least it was when I downloaded it for the XB). If HD/Buell don't want their ECM's tuned, then need to encrypt them like some of the European brands are doing. Now, it IS illegal to mess with emissions control systems on road going vehicles. So plaster on some race numbers, go to the track, and tune your bike.  | ||
| Stevel |
Lets clarify this subject. It is not a copyright infringement to hack the ECM for personal use. ECMspy did not distribute intellectual property. ECMspy enabled owners to tune their own ECM for personal use. That too, is not illegal. I am certain Harley lawyers tried to make the authors uncomfortable successfully. However, ECMspy was never distributed for profit. It was jointly developed for fun. Consequently, there were no available funds to defend themselves in a court of law. Sure, they could have won, but for what? Would you be willing to spend your personal wealth and perhaps incur serious debt defending yourself for a principle? I don't think so. I believe the real reason it was discontinued was that the initial design involved a huge amount of reverse engineering and the results were compiled into a product without a complete vision of evolutionary change needs, as newer versions of the ECM were produced as well as new motorcycle models. In other words, a business case was made that could not be ignored. Now that being said, lets examine the product. Yes, you could change static settings within the data arrays, but it could not change the logic that controlled the performance within the closed loop function. No matter what you do, you cannot prevent the computer from creating a lean mixture in that range short of disabling the learning mode. The only laws that might be broken were emission rules the owner violates, not the authors of ECMspy. Steve | ||
| Stevel |
Now lets look at the economics. I have bought a 1125r. It's very lean. It's lots of fun, but could be much better, so I buy a laptop and then a cable, then I bust my ass getting a copy of ECMspy, then I buy a datalogger. I am now out $2,000 and 100 hours of effort and I haven't even begun the effort to sort out the ECM. I think I have way too much disposable income and not enough common sense, but I did it anyway. Perhaps there is a better way....like buying an aftermarket ECM with an open dialog...but what about all those other functions the factory ECM offers that won't be available in an aftermarket unit. To be continued....... Steve | ||
| Clarkjw |
check ur pm steve | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
how would someone with a mac go about getting ecmspy now that its not available? Jake | ||
| Smoke4ndmears |
bootcamp. | ||
| Pizzaboy |
ECMSPY is one of those cases. so harley will go after ecmspy, but not power commander among countless other aftermarket tuning companies for screwing around with harley's fuel injection system? what about ECM tuning for every major car and truck manufacturer? how about american diesel trucks? do ford dodge and chevy go after the 20 different companies that sell tuners for profit that reflash and change the fueling of their trucks? chevy's have a program called EFIlive for their duramax diesel trucks that work EXACTLY THE SAME WAY that ecmspy works. general motors is a lot bigger than harley also.... so explain THAT, mate? | ||
| Froggy |
I hope the laptop made up $1950 of it! I use an older laptop I got for dirt cheap. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I have a pretty stout laptop, and didn't pay that much for it. | ||
| Froggy |
Except it can't run ECMspy without doing a ton of work to install a second OS, then you got a shiny silver version of my piece of junk  | ||
| Dsmitty25 |
Well don't want to sound like a broken record lol but I'll have been unable 2 locate a copy of ecmspy. Would apreciate any help i can get. thanks again Dustin I plan to use winpep and a dyno to do my data logging and runs. | ||
| Dsmitty25 |
I got a what I was looking for thank everyone!! look forward to doing some dyno runs! Dustin | ||
| Stevel |
Clarkjw, Thanks for the pm. Yes, I am aware of their offerings. In fact, I also bought those within that 2k. I did not mention this for the same reason you sent the pm. In point of fact, ECMspy is not usable without those tools for the 1125, as the maps are larger than the display space in ECMspy and the data wraps. What is nice about ECMspy is that the program dynamically highlights the cell in use within the fuel map. This is a very nice feature, if the maps would display correctly. As it is, you have to manually do the correlation within the other tool. Steve | ||
| Stevel |
Froggy and others, Here is my cost breakdown in real numbers: ECMspy === a lot of effort to find Translation tool=== $70 Baseline ==== $289 ASUS Netbook === $375 (with shipping) Netbook mount === $100 Dynojet Commander === $490 Cable === $50 I apologise....I lied for $600, but it sure feels like 2k and I have yet to receive everything and put it all together, so I am certain there are more costs coming. Steve | ||
| Stevel |
Pizzaboy, How do we know what the HD lawyers have done? Maybe they have gone after the others for all I know. However most of those units plug on to the ECM and don't mess with the ECM internals? I know nothing about EFIlive, but I do know about the others, as I run a full Banks kit on my Dodge dually and all the other units that I know about anyway also attach to the factory ECMs and control the ECM by translating the sensor inputs. Steve | ||
| Packdog |
If H-D really did contact the authors and ask them to cease and desist, I would find that confusing as well as disturbing. I understand there is a lot more to the situation, but one of the latest Buell P-R campaigns says that they like privateer racers. ECMspy was a great tool for those privateer racers, so unless Delphi put pressure on H-D/Buell to stop ECMspy, I don't see how it would make sense for them to kill ECMspy. I wonder if Erik is aware of the situation, assuming it does involve H-Ds legal department contacting the ECMspy authors? ECMspy seems like the kind of free-spirited, innovative, co-operative, grass-roots kind of thing that Erik could appreciate. Just my $0.02 and what do I know? | ||
| Chadhargis |
Froggy....I'm a grizzled old IT geek of 24 years. Do you honestly think I have that shiny laptop and don't have multiple OS's on it capable of running not only in a dual boot config, but also simultaneously. It's 2009 my friend, the virtual machine is your friend. As is the SSD hard drive and LED monitor. I love my laptop. 21 years of supporting Windows in the Enterprise and I've never found an OS that is as stable and robust as UNIX. Novell was close though. Loved it. A real X509 compliant directory structure, way back then. God love NDS. Some buy Macs for the pretty machines. I buy them for the UNIX underpinnings. Dropping to a command shell or using SSH is a wonderful thing. That, and it runs windows better than my Lenovo or Dell laptops. | ||
| Froggy |
Those LED screens are nice....  | ||
| Rfischer |
As has already been noted, most of the ECM tuners out there are add-ons which modify the signals coming out of the Factory ECU in one manner or another. That does not infringe intellectual property rights, whatever it may risk in terms of DOT/EPA/CAFE legalities. The line gets crossed when one breaks into the ECU itself to re-write code. And BTW, PowerCommander got slammed by CAFE, not H-D. For selling products that violated state emissions standards and regulations. H-D/Buell reacted by restricting all their non-compliant parts to "licensed racers". To head off getting caught up in the mess. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Luckily, I know lots of licensed racers. My dealer being one of them! | ||
| Rfischer |
Not smart Chad. People "in authority" regularly drop in here. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Yeah...so what? Licensed racers are allowed to buy the parts right?? Never said *I* was buying them. But I do have a race qualification. Just need to run a provisional race and I can get my license. Sadly, I have no need for any race parts at this time. But that might change when I hit the track. | ||
| Sportster_mann |
I thought that the reason that ECMSpy was pulled was due to an intellectual rights issue and profits being made from it - nothing to do with HDB at all ... | ||
| Pashlipops |
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story... | ||
| Slypiranna |
There are very limited functions with the discontinued but readily available version of ECMspy relevant to the 1125's ecu. MOST proven useful and still in use today are; Fetch and Burn Baby!  Clearing trouble codes. The rest is top secret but the masses wouldn't understand it's value or language anyway... Bottom line, it wasn't designed for this operating system and without a lot of prior experience and/or assistance...you'll only end up in a world of trouble playing therein. It doesn't matter how much money you throw in anything...it's all useless unless you know what your doing. | ||
| Sofauxboho |
Could one of you fine folks please get me a copy of the latest ECMspy? I'll host it on my servers until they make me take it down. meATnotfineDOTcom (Sorry to necro this post back out of the past, but I figure two weeks isn't all that bad.) | ||
| 12bolt |
I lost my copy of Ecmspy also! F@#$%%^ Computers! I need the Windows version if anyone still has it available. James |
