| Author | Message | ||
     Sycho |
"He is looking more and more like a rider who could be up there with the likes of W. Rainey. (The greatest of all US roadracers)" Better than Lawson? It would've been absolutely incredible to see the two of them race against each other with them both in their Prime. But I think Wayne came into GP racing after we saw the best of Eddie Lawson. Just imagine if you could, a race between Roberts, Lawson, Gardner, Rainey, and Spencer, and I'm sure a whole slew of names I've forgotten. All of the Greats of the Monster Two Stroke GP bikes. If it were possible to put them all on the track, with them all in their prime, or their best season. Who do you think would come out on top? It's like a fantasy race.  | ||
| Gaesati |
Dentguy, if you access the motogp website they willl stream the video. They also give lap by lap position printouts as the race progresses. Sorry about the spoiling, I was really enthused about Stoner making a successful comeback. To Syco, all the racers you mentioned were great but having seen all of them race from trackside and watched most of the races on tv as well I really think Rainey was overall the best I ever saw. | ||
| Dentguy |
Gaesati, Thanks for the MotoGP link info and no problem about the posting. Wasn't a big deal. I usually stay of the race forums until after the races, but it was one of those days and I was really bored. My 5 year old has been sick on and off for a few weeks. Then he was diagnosed with H1N1 virus (swine flu) on saturday and we are all confined to the house. I was really bored and jumped on the forum, not expecting any results at 9:00 AM (my time) and not thinking of the time difference. My fault. Glad to see Stoner back and in good form. Rainey is great. I was reading his book "Wayne Rainey, his own words" for the second time recently and got side tracked. I think I'll get back into it. It's a great read. | ||
| Blake |
"Great race for Nicky." How so? An 8th place finish? | ||
| Duggram |
Dentguy, I was merely thinking that you might want to be responsible for your own happiness. You know it really is possible that the forum will be talking about WSB results in the WSB thread. | ||
| Trojan |
"Great race for Nicky." How so? An 8th place finish? A very lucky 8th place finish at that! Kallio crashing and Capirossi stopping made Hayden (and Toseland) look almost respectable! Call me suspicious, but while Stoner was away on his holidays Hayden started to get to grips with the Ducati and was making progress. As soon as the whiner returned it seemed as though the team lost interest in Hayden and gave all their attention to the 'golden boy' once again. I was kind of hoping that Stoner would just retire quietly and not bother coming back at all, but nobody is perfect I suppose  Yes Stoner did have a very good race, but I really hope Rossi and Lorenzo wipe the floor with him at Philip Island. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I have one question for Hayden : "Nicky, when will you realise that it is better for you to join WSBK? The sooner the better. Why wait ?" "I was kind of hoping that Stoner would just retire quietly and not bother coming back at all, but nobody is perfect I suppose: (" You cannot hate someone that much.... Rossi seems very worried lately. Or is he angry at Yamaha to sign Lorenzo for 2010? Rossi complained for "set-up" problems and "no grip". Rossi must realise that at his age he is expected to have a bad day. He is not the Rossi at the age of 25 years old. | ||
| Simond |
No Vagelis, he was clearly 20hp down on the rest of the field  . | ||
| Dentguy |
"Dentguy, I was merely thinking that you might want to be responsible for your own happiness." You make me laugh. Thanks, I'll try and be responsible for my own happiness from now on Dr. Duggram. "You know it really is possible that the forum will be talking about WSB results in the WSB thread." Maybe so, but I'm posting in this MotoGP thread. My first post was a simple request to Gaesati, not a demand. All I asked for was the same consideration that was given in most of the AMA/DMG race threads due to delayed race showings on TV. It's not a big deal, he responded, it's done and I explained my situation about 6 or 7 posts up. If you want to post results before the race is shown later on the same day, go ahead. Let it go. Now back to the MotoGP talk. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
It would be great for Lorenzo to win the title this year, then Rossi leaves Yamaha for Ducati..... Spies joining Yamaha one year earlier than it was initialy announced, means that the Ducat-Rossi "conspiracy theory" might happen ???? | ||
| Trojan |
You cannot hate someone that much.... I try very hard not to dislike anyone who I have never actually met, but some people just rub you up the wrong way Casey Stoner is a very talented motorcycle racer but he should really learn to realise what a priviliged position he is in instead of acting like a petulant child all the time. It isn't new for him, he has been like this since he came over and raced in British 125 a few years ago. It is probably just because he dislikes the publicity machine and so comes across badly, and he may be a thoroughly nice chap in reality, but in the mean time he gets my goat Rossi seems very worried lately. Or is he angry at Yamaha to sign Lorenzo for 2010? Rossi complained for "set-up" problems and "no grip". Rossi must realise that at his age he is expected to have a bad day. He is not the Rossi at the age of 25 years old. I think Rossi is genuinely disappointed with Yamaha and the way they have seemingly ignored his contribution in making the M1 a winning motorcycle. He believes that his work should bring the reward of number one rider status and feels somewhat betrayed by Yamaha. Like many people who give 125% of themselves all the time, they feel as though everyone else should do the same,adn anything less is unacceptable. Almost invariably it ends in disappointment and tears when one side can't live up to the other ideals, and I think Rossi is beginning to 'fall out of love' with Yamaha because of this. Yamaha have also been very public in their 'post Rossi era' preparations, and he probably feels (as Stoner probably did when Ducati were running around trying to hire anyone with a pulse) that he is being overlooked while he is still there and delivering the goods for them week after week. Take a look in history when Giacomo Agostini left MV Agusta for Yamaha and the parallel with the Rossi/Lorenzo situation is uncanny. Agostini had been number one for MV for a long time, and had developed the bike into a winning package. Then Count Agusta personally decided to sign Phil Read as Ago's team mate instead of the usual 'number 2' lower ability rider, and Ago felt that he was being usurped. He also probably saw that the MV (or Yamaha in Rossi case) would not stay the dominant machine for ever, and that sooner or later it would be eclipsed by another faster bike. Ago used the situation with Read to engineer a situation where he could move to Yamaha but look like he was the injured party, and I think Rossi is doing the same now. I really, really hope that Rossi moves to Ducati in 2011 and takes Burgess with him. Jerry Burgess has recently said that he sees no reason why Rossi shouldn't continue for another 5 years at the top, and that he would stay with him if that was the case. This means that Rossi could conceivably move to Ducati (or Suzuki for that matter) and still have time to build the bike he wants to win another world championship with  Now that would cement his name as THE greatest of all time | ||
| Blake |
I sat there in disgusted disbelief watching the MotoGP post race presser as Stoner launched into yet another session of whiny excuse making. I'm with Matt, the kid has amazing skills, but he needs a total change of attitude. Rossi supplanting him at Ducati would be perfect. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Stoner is not that bad. Give him a break. What is wrong with Dovi ?? Ohlins problems ?? Elias made a mistake to leave Pramac Ducati, now he is almost without a ride in motoGP. "A very lucky 8th place finish at that! Kallio crashing and Capirossi stopping made Hayden (and Toseland) look almost respectable! " You also dislike Hayden without meeting him. It was not Hayden fault that Kalio pushed over his limit and crashed. What Stoner and Hayden have in common ?? They both got the title from Rossi in 2006 and 2007. Just get over it. I bet you will dislike Lorenzo without meeting him if he gets the title this year. "I think Rossi is genuinely disappointed with Yamaha and the way they have seemingly ignored his contribution in making the M1 a winning motorcycle. He believes that his work should bring the reward of number one rider status and feels somewhat betrayed by Yamaha." What are Rossi fans expecting Yamaha to do ?? Give the most talented young rider in the world, a crap bike to ride, so that that Rossi fans watch Rossi make him look like a fool ?? Is this fairplay ?? What about Lorenzo ?? Does he deserve beeing treated like that ?? If he ended up a looser like Gibernau after 5-6 races, that would be OK ?? I am very happy with Yamaha, for not doing a "Michelin" to Lorenzo. Remember the special tires Rossi used to get ? Then Rossi fans said it was "Rossi mind games" that destroyed his opponents. I do not feel sorry about Rossi. He still gets 14mil$ from Yamaha. It is time to show the racing fans that he deserves it.. Has Rossi offered Yamaha to accept a pay cut at these bad financial times ??? If I was Yamaha I would choose a 4mil$ champion too. Jorge, you can do it baby ! | ||
| Jaimec |
AGAIN with the "Special Tires?" Get it in your head: ALL of the top riders got the tires they wanted, NOT just Rossi! Sheesh! It was cost-cutting that slit Michelin's throat. They were too used to being able to produce the tires they needed on the spot and overnighting to the racers for "Day of race." Bridgestone couldn't do that (being in Japan) so they got a lot better at PREDICTING what would be needed at each track. When both tire manufacturers were forced to play by the same rules, Michelin got caught unprepared; they weren't used to working that way. Bridgestone was, so they became the dominant (and now the ONLY) tire manufacturer in MotoGP. | ||
| Blake |
"Stoner is not that bad." Yes he is. Nothing but whiny excuses all year. "Give him a break" He's been getting a break from me all year. Enough is enough. Can you imagine whining if he were in Nick Hayden's situation? Nick rarely if ever whined. | ||
| Trojan |
You also dislike Hayden without meeting him. It was not Hayden fault that Kalio pushed over his limit and crashed. What Stoner and Hayden have in common ?? I don't dislike Nicky Hayden at all. I just said he was lucky to end up with 8th place because of a crash and retirement in front of him. Fact, if they Kallio hadn't fallen off or Capirossi retired Hayden would have finished 10th and Toseland a very poor and distant 11th or 12th. I am very happy with Yamaha, for not doing a "Michelin" to Lorenzo. Remember the special tires Rossi used to get ? Actually all of the top Michelin riders and teams used to get 'special' tyres flown in from the factory. Rossi was just one of them, as were his team mates at the time. Doohan, Melandri, Biaggi, Gibernau were just a few others. At that time Michelin could (and did) offer pretty much bespoke compounds to all of their riders on a daily basis, with special tyres flown in between practice and qualifying if necessary. However for along while (until Bridgestone arrived) it didn't really matter because almost all of the top guys got the same treatment from Michelin. I do not feel sorry about Rossi. He still gets 14mil$ from Yamaha. It is time to show the racing fans that he deserves it.. When you look at the high profile Rossi (alone) has given MotoGP over the last few years, and the money he brings into the sport, then he is worth a lot more than the reputed 14 million he is paid. Without the 'Rossi Show' MotoGP would not be the major global event that it has become over the last few years, and like him or hate him, it is his personaltiy and charisma that has attracted the huge crowds and TV audiences (and revenues) in recent times. MotoGP is almost unthinkable without Rossi in it, and the organisers must be worried sick at what they are going to have to do to keep the show at the level it is now when he decides to retire. That doesn't even begin to include the 8 world championships of course. His achievements in GP racing are quite simply staggering! Overall records: First in all time points with 3970 points, the only rider with Loris Capirossi to achieve more than 3000 points in the history of the continental circus. First in all time podium standings with 161 podiums Second in all time race wins standings with 103 race wins, behind Agostini with 122 race wins. Second in all time pole positions standings with 57 pole positions, behind Michael Doohan with 58 pole positions. Second in all time fastest laps standings with 81 fastest laps, behind Agostini with 117 fastest laps. Fifth in all time world championship wins with 8 world championships along with Phil Read, behind Carlo Ubbiali and Mike Hailwood with 9 world championships, Ángel Nieto with 13 world championships and Giacomo Agostini with 15 world championships. Other records: Rossi is the only rider to win World Championship titles in five different classes: 125 cc, 250 cc, 500 cc 990 cc & 800 cc. the only rider to win consecutive races with different manufacturers. He won the final race of 2003 with Honda at Valencia and the first race of 2004 with Yamaha at Welkom (South Africa). the only rider to win championships with the 3 different engines used in MotoGP history, 500cc 2 stroke (2001), 990cc 4 stroke (2002/03/04/05) and 800cc 4stroke (2008). the only rider to win seven consecutive races at his home Grand Prix at Mugello in 2002-2008. the only rider to win three races after starting the race from 11th or lower on the grid (British GP 2001, German GP 2006 & Dutch TT 2007). the only rider to win the premier-class title on four different types of motorcycle: A Honda 500cc four-cylinder two-stroke (2001), Honda 990cc five-cylinder four-stroke (2002, 2003), Yamaha 990cc four-cylinder four-stroke (2004, 2005) and a Yamaha 800cc four-cylinder four-stroke (2008). the second rider to win consecutive world championships with different manufacturers (2001-2003 with Honda and 2004-2005 with Yamaha) along with Eddie Lawson (1988 with Yamaha and 1989 with Honda). the second rider in history - after Giacomo Agostini - to regain the premier-class crown after two successive defeats. Yamaha's most successful rider in the premier class with 44 wins,and 3 titles (2004/05/08). Aprilia's most successful rider in all classes with 26 wins (12 wins in 125 cc and one title in 1997, and 14 wins in 250cc and one title in 1999). From all the active riders, he is Honda's most successful rider in all classes with 33 wins (13 500cc, 20 MotoGP), and 3 world titles (2001 500cc, 2002 2003 MotoGP). The only rider to win at least one race per each year for 14 consecutive years. (Thank you Wikipedia ) 14 Million Dollars, Euros or Pounds is a very cheap price to pay, and I'm sure there are many who would pay a lot more to keep him in MotoGP for as long as possible. I doubt that Lorenzo (who I do like and rate very highly) and Stoner will come anywhere near to matching Rossi landmark achievements in the next 10 years, and neither will have his personality or charisma however long and hard they try (Lorenzo's post race celebrations are just poor imitations of Rossi's in the past). A recent article even went to far as to propose that Rossi could name any price he wanted to now, for he IS MotoGP in the eyes of millions of people. He is one of the most recognisable sportsmen anywhere in the world, and coming from a relative minority sport that really is something. Until the sport develops another character with his skill AND personality I think we are in for some lean years following his retirement. Simoncelli looks like a good bet to pick up Rossi's mantle and become the 'face' of MotoGP, but it is too early to tell if he will be anywhere near as popular as Vale adn I very much doubt that he will be anywhere near as successful. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
motoGP will be fine without Rossi. It might get better. There are many talented riders out there ! Rossi was always getting a better tire from michelin. Remember the tire warmers on Rossi's bike after the races ?? | ||
| Trojan |
Rossi was always getting a better tire from michelin. Remember the tire warmers on Rossi's bike after the races ?? According to the losers, the winner always gets better treatment Rossi got the same as the rest of the top factory riders. No better, no worse. motoGP will be fine without Rossi. It might get better. There are many talented riders out there ! That isn't what the organisers and money men think though, as they know what a draw Rossi is even now. There are many talented riders, but there always have been. It takes more than being a talented rider to raise the profile of the sport to the extent that Rossi has done. | ||
| Gaesati |
"great race for Nicky" yep i still think so. Who fell off and who retired is academic. A top 10 finish is a top ten finish. In contrast, Melandri, a talented racer also, was running dead last at this time last year. Does this mean Nicky has either more talent, more spirit, more development skills, more cooperation from Ducati or a combination of all? I think that it is unfortunate that some contributors choose to denigrate the success of some people any way they can. It must be a very sad state of mind to be in to have to express so much negativity. I hope things get better for them. | ||
| Trojan |
Why do you think that if someone has a bad result, pointing it out is a personal attack? As for 'denigrating success', 8th from 14 is not a success, especially when that 8th is a result of 3 retirements and you get beaten by riders on 'customer' bikes. Hayden is a factory rider and regardless of how nice a guy he is or what passport he carries his results are not stacking up to be good enough to continue a factory ride. The same is true for Vermuelen, Toseland, Canepa and Talmacsi, although 3 of them are not riding a factory bike but will all be sacked a the end of this season (although Talmacsi may just buy his place again next year). Hayden is currently 14th of 17 regular competitors in MotoGP and is being beaten by Vermuelen, Toseland, Elias and DeAngelis, all of whom are being released next year due to poor results (and is 5 places behind Melandri on a bike that has had zero development since the start of the season)! So, 'Great race for Nicky'? no it wasn't. | ||
| Gaesati |
Nicky is still in there and working. Maybe he is not performiing at Stoner's level on the Ducati but he wasn't at Honda either. He is however making a better fist of the Ducati than most if we allow for the number of race incidents and dnfs he has been involved in over time. A great race for Nicky is showing that he is still working on the Ducati and, I believe, showing improvement. Whether that is enough for him to hold his job is for Ducati to decide. Maybe the Ducati is not really that good and, (shock, horror!)it is Stoner who makes the difference, passport and personal attributes notwithstanding. | ||
| Trojan |
A great race for Nicky is showing that he is still working on the Ducati and, I believe, showing improvement. But he isn't showing improvement. That is my point. In fact he has now slipped back to teh point he was at before Stoner left for his 'sabattical'. If Hayden can be calssed as having a great race because he is still working and trying hard, then everyone had a great race including Talmacsi and Canepa. Why is it good enough for Nicky to try hard but fail but not for other riders? Maybe the Ducati is not really that good and, (shock, horror!)it is Stoner who makes the difference, passport and personal attributes notwithstanding. You maybe right there. Nobody else seems able to get the Duc anywhere near the front do they? Kallio (and Espargaro) have produced lap times in the top 5 but have so far not managed to stay on board long enough to make a decent result. I would like to see a regular race winner other than Stoner on the Ducati just to see if they could make it competitive. Unfortunately that narrows the prospective candidates down to just 3. Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Rossi. The first two have been offered the moon and stars by Ducati and turned them down already, so it only remains to be seen what it will take to tempt Rossi away to the dark side When that happens I can't see Stoner and Rossi sharing a garage. | ||
| Jaimec |
VERY interesting reading: http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/noyes-valen tinos-seven-year-itch-coming-early/ | ||
| Jaimec |
Based on the article I posted above, Valentino can't be too happy about this Yamaha ad. LARGE photo in link above. | ||
| Gaesati |
Hi, ho, hi, ho, it's off to Phillip Island I go. | ||
| Jaimec |
Disappointing turn of events for Lorenzo. And Hayden's season really seems to be jinxed. | ||
| Gaesati |
But stoner appears to be recovered and dominant. Or will the naysayers say that because Lorenzo fell that Rossi gifted the race to Stoner. Maybe they will say that despite obvious slides and sdeways corner entries it was just the electronics that enabled him to win. Either way Stoner won despite the efforts of the three top men to defeat him. | ||
| Jaimec |
Rossi already reported that he tried like hell to get in front of Stoner, but in the end he was content with second and a haul of 20 points. But did you see how Stoner's bike was all over the track compared to Rossi (who seemed to be on rails)? He used to ride the Honda the same way, but it spit him off more often than not. The Ducati is just better suited to his "Wild Man" style of riding. | ||
| Jimidan |
"Stoner is not that bad." Yes he is. Nothing but whiny excuses all year. Blake, I think the "excuses" are over...and Stoner surely isn't that bad. Actually, how can anyone say that Stoner was just making excuses without spending time in the young man's body. It is inconceivable to me that a man with the drive necessary to be a champion would deliberately make "excuses" to bail out on his bid to win another where he clearly was in contention. The fact that he came back from his illness in the last two races and picked up right where he left off, is a very good indicator that his illness was real. How easy it is for some folks to dismiss the man's obvious physical problems and call that whining. Casey Stoner will be a force in MotoGP for years to come. I wish that he would give Nicky a few pointers with riding that crazy booming Ducati. I know that that will never happen. I loved those great slides that Stoner and Rossi were performing in yesterdays race....wow! | ||
| Trojan |
Stoner rode a great race (and that is coming from someone who is definitely NOT a Stoner fan!) although he has form at Philip Island and was never put under real pressure all race by Vale, who seemed to settle for second place with around 10 laps to go and never looked like making a real move on Stoner all race. Lorenzo showed his immaturity and I can't believe he won't be punished for failing to see a huge red Ducati before he ran into the back of it. Can't help feeling sorry for Hayden these days as he is fated to be in the wrong place at the wrong time it seems. Altogether it was one of the dullest MotoGP races I have watched all year, only partially relieved by all the rear wheel sliding shenanigans and that it was marginally more exciting than the Brazilian F1 race! The 125 and 250 races though were excellent |
