| Author | Message | ||
     Tortoise |
http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/stories/2009/ 09/07/daily22.html They will blame the recession but I'm sure the recent marketing has contributed as well. | ||
| Court |
Why are you sure? Who is they? Wouldn't the recession tend to shift consumer purchasing toward cheaper, more efficient vehicles like motorcycles? This is like the 7th thread (still interesting news) on Buells plans but I'm wondering how you made the leap to the marketing conclusion. | ||
| Tortoise |
Court: I am not "sure". It was a poor choice of a word. I should have said "I'm guessing" "They" are HD/Buell. You are right though, the recession would tend to shift consumer purchases to more efficient vehicles like motorcycles. This makes the situation even worse for Buell as they are laying off workers even though motorcycles sales as you stated should be going up. I am assuming there is a direct correlation between early August's marketing campaign and the layoffs that are now scheduled. I could be wrong but seems like an interesting coincidence. Court, do you actually own or ride a Blast? | ||
| Ezblast |
Better question - did you ever test ride a Blast? - lol EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
"do you actually own or ride a Blast?" A question I usually like to ask!  Court is in the Who's Who's of Buell! He test road the prototype of the Blast (if I have it correctly). He's also among the long list of Buell owners who'd love a Blast in the garage, but just hasnt done (or cant justify) it. Maybe if they really made a high performance Blast. But I dont want to 'put words into his mouth'. He has earned his respect. I agree on your opinion that the marketing may have contributed to the closure. True or not  But disenfranchised Buell owner EZ, did recently purchase a 'real' Buell (1125CR) coincidently on the heals of this campaign. While I cant justify the purchase of a Buell twin, I do however find my self much less enthusiastic about our (my/the) Blast racing program, an almost zero desire to wear any of the many Buell t-shirts I have and complete apathy about the Buell presence in any of the dealers I visit (I spent more time in the Ducati section, which was better outfitted anyway). | ||
| Court |
>>>>Court, do you actually own or ride a Blast? Fair enough question. I do not. I was a factory test rider, a full time (with 401K and full insurance) Buell employee working under the direction of Jon Bunne who was in charge of the Research and Development for the Blast testing. I like the Blast as is and would buy one in a heartbeat if I were still in my "9 motorcycles at one time" phase. I've shifted from motorcycles to guitars.
Another poor assumption. The truth of the matter is that, in the United States, motorcycles are "toys" purchased with disposable income. Even though, from a strictly economic sense, they would appear to be a wiser purchase, motorcycle sales are off significantly. Buell, frankly, has fared fare better than most.
Your next assumption, assuming a correlation between the new marketing campaign and layoffs is equally invalid. Here . . since you are wanting to establish correlation, is a simple formula for correlation between two (campaign and layoffs) variables using a standard deviation of your choice. See if you can prove correlation.  | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . . I, too, have about zero enthusiasm for the new marketing campaign. It really does Buell a disservice. I look at the 2010 Buell catalog and I see something like 27 different Buell logos . . . . I can't for the life of me figure out who or what Buell is, wants to be or where they are heading based on the marketing. I found the entire thing, from my personal perspective a bit of a turn off. But I also realize that times have changed and that I no longer represent, or am anywhere near, Buells intended market. So I don't criticize, I simply "don't get it. . . . but chalk that up to age. I'd also agree that the current crop of "Buell" clothing and gear hold no attraction either. Frankly, since the day the parts and accessories got dumped in with Harley-Davidson parts and accessories group there have been about 2 shirts, and zero of anything else, I'd be interested in paying for. I think the Buell P&A offerings, along with the marketing, need a huge realignment and a focus on corporate image. I'd like to see Buell with a SINGLE logo . . . the new one is fine, but let's decide and move ahead with that decision and pushing their values as a company not all this "it's okay not to wave" and "kiss my ass if you don't race" stuff. Then again . . . as I said . . I am in my twilight years. You and I don't disagree on everything. I just formed an opinion based on facts and experience, you jumped to conclusions and tried to contrive non-existent "correlations" to support them. | ||
| Rainman |
Like EZ, the only bikes out there that interest me seem to Buells -- XB, XT and cr. Like Eriko, I have no real enthusiasm any more to fly my Buell flag as I feel I was kicked out of the club like I was kicked out of the Republican party back in 1988. I've even considered buying new 2010 plastics with "Blast" instead of Buell American Motorcycles, except I'm too cheap. If I had the money to get second bike, it'd probably be a Lightning Ss or XT and I'd keep the Blast as my commuter, but it's hard to feel like a part of a family when your buds threaten to crush your bike like the man who designed it. Yuk-yuk. Thanks, Mr. B. | ||
| Rainman |
Hmmm, just read my own post. Why is it that I should want to feel like a part of a family by the brand I own? Real sportbike riders don't need no stinkin' family. Maybe I should buy a Harley and join the lifestyle, eh? | ||
| Court |
The BLAST . . . by the way . . .still being produced and sold . . is a wonderful commuter bike. I see more and more of them in NYC and would not rule out one in my future. | ||
| Crackhead |
Court i agree with you 100% | ||
| Tortoise |
Court, Maybe I shouldn't have jumped to the conclusions that I did. I'm still bitter. And its not just that they cubed the Blast, it was the entire marketing campaign that left me wondering WTF? I don't understand why I'm not supposed to ride from parking lot to parking lot or why people that ride Buell must ride off the seat all the time. I don't understand the ruthless engineering theme either. Just for the record it was you that stated "Wouldn't the recession tend to shift consumer purchasing toward cheaper, more efficient vehicles like motorcycles?" Not me. | ||
| Krjoseph |
It's funny, but for years I've seen on this and other Buell forums many calls for increased, and more aggressive, advertising. Now Buell is and a lot of folks don't like it. Certainly, us Blast guys have reason to be upset, but I think some folks are taking the adds too seriously. The one about not waving? Hilarious, especially the part about the guy waving from a bike with extended swingarm and neon lights. Those guys are all over Nashville and they look pretty stupid. They're on a bike to show it off, not ride it. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not my cup of tea. If you want to ride parking lot to parking lot and talk about bikes, have fun, I'd rather be riding twisties in the middle of nowhere, usually by myself. Buell's are a purpose built bike and I think that's what the new ads suggest. If you want a bike to do what everyone else is doing, go buy a Jap bike. If you live for the ride, then Buells are for you. Love it or hate it, the campaign is doing exactly what it intended, get people talking about Buells. I can't believe Buell is spending the mega-bucks for the current ad placement. A lot of folks who have no idea what a Buell is are getting exposed, and the message is Buell's are built for one thing better than any other bike. Point of debate? Sure it is, but I'm glad they are getting people talking. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Aggressive is an ambiguous term for this discussion. The aggressive I think everyone meant is just more, more advertising, getting the word out, name recognition. What Buell did is (for lack of a better phrase) is in your face, so what if you're offended advertising. Now the word is out, but its hitched to a "you'd better be serious about getting a knee down and pushing the limit, caution be damned" attitude. I dont think that widens the target, just changes it (my opinion). It really makes those who arent that aggressive and dont want to be, think twice about buying one-that one must be of the extreme sport lifestyle. A close example of perceived mandatory/accepted lifestyle is Harley Davidson. I cant even count how many people have honestly told me they wont buy a Harley just because they dont want the lifestyle, join a 'gang' or be thought they are in one. They didnt want the hassle or burden that went with it (like wearing 'colors' or a patch). The reality (as we know) is its just a motorcycle and you make out of it what you want. But the name HD comes with a whole lot of connotations. Buell, from my experience did also. The two most often were Buell=expensive and fast (and this was looking at a Blast!). Both Buell and HD share the same stigma though-unreliable. None of these perceptions are true, but in my experience has definitely affected sales (or perhaps just acceptance and attitude). | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
PS What originally hooked me on Badweb was the complex discussions that took place often with math formulas, etc. given. I wasnt overwhelmed here with the "just throw a big bore kit on with some cams and go" that pervades many places. Badweb was often much more (as if I could keep up LOL!, but I enjoyed it just the same). Thoughtful discussions rather than ham fisted modifications. | ||
| Tortoise |
Gearheaderiko: I like Badweb because when I come here and ask my newbie "how do I do this maintenance or repair" type of question nobody treats me like an idiot. When I first came here I didn't even know how to change the oil on my Buell. Same goes for riding styles. Nobody looks down upon someone because the they don't push the limit. I put lots of miles on my Blast riding twisties, canyons, hills, mountains and commuting to work but have yet to put my knee down on a corner. I will get there eventually but first need new rearsets as my pegs are always scraping. But, I am not the type of rider Buell wants to sell to. I don't ride off the seat, I will probably never buy a large displacement motorcycle. They have essentially told me they don't need me. It is unfortunate I will have to buy Japanese for my next bike but thats how it is. | ||
| Blake |
I'd like to see Buell develop a Blast engine based thumper sportbike, a 340LB, 600cc short stroke version of a Blast Thumper putting out 50 RWHP, that would be a real success if the styling was spectacular. I think Buell can do spectacular styling. Think S1 Lightning Junior. | ||
| Court |
>>>Think S1 Lightning Junior. I'd put down a deposit today. | ||
| Ezblast |
I have a picture of Court test riding the mule with the gold front wheel. EZ | ||
| Court |
>>>I have a picture of Court test riding the mule with the gold front wheel. Yikes . . . must have been one of Brankin or Gary's pics . . I didn't take many then. I have some from the first day Gary lopped the cylinder off the back of the motor and made a "single" and I have some of when Ti did the first clay model of what would become the Blast. Gary and I would both set out in the morning on the two Blasts. At that time it was not decided which motor would be in the final product so we took both out. We'd come back at the end of the day and write reports. We looked like two bears on bicycles. | ||
| Johnnymac |
Wow! Can you scan and post them, Court? I'm sure I'm not alone in stating that I'd LOVE to see them!  Johnny | ||
| Crackhead |
what was the other motor? | ||
| Ezblast |
Full stroke 600cc. EZ | ||
| Johnnymac |
A nice little 50whp model. They went with the current model because beginners would have had a hard time with the power of the other one. ROFL!  | ||
| Monzaracer |
Hey Cort, Honestly when it was let on Buell had a new direction for the Blast I figured a small cc 500-600 cc V-twin in the Blast Frame with maybe a slightly different tire size so it was limited to one or two tires. | ||
| Rainman |
But, I am not the type of rider Buell wants to sell to. I don't ride off the seat Me, neither. I was riding some Blue Ridge back country with a couple of buddies and we went into some mountain turns pretty quick only to find silt and gravel at the apex. Because I was not fully committed, I could make very minor adjustments to avoid the hazard. This repeated itself again and again. I scrape pegs, sidestand and boot now and then, but at full lean, knee down, I'd have put my azz on the ground as well on that day. For me, knee-down is for the track or for roadways I've already checked out and know the traffic and conditions. If someone wants to ride that hard, fine. It just ain't my road style | ||
| Ezblast |
I would like to repeat that I Bought the CR, despite that recent add campaign which is in poor taste to say the least. Thank God, he won a Championship, or it could have more seriously damaged the company. I bought the CR because I highly respect the builders of Rotax motors, and Buell engineering prowess. Erik's bikes have gotten better each year and I knew it was time to get something to grow into again. I may never achieve the CR's potential - good - that means it will need little to no modifications on my part, just maintenance. And it already has the type of look I like as well. And at a great price to boot! Who could ask for more - lol. The Blast has and always will remain my favorite hobby, commuter, and errand runner, and for local fun rides. My CR is my advanced class in riding the weekend twisties - to get as smooth on it as I am on my Blast. No apologies intended - lol. EZ (Message edited by ezblast on September 19, 2009) | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
No offense meant EZ, you dont have to apologize LOL! Sure, it was just a coincidence...or perhaps something more sinister......how do we know its really you posting and that you're not being held in a back room somewhere, being "re educated".....hmmm.... Tortoise: Glad you felt welcome here and i'm glad you got the feeling we treated you well. We try. |
