| Author | Message | ||
     Jake318 |
personally I can see both sides of this subject . Normally I am a black and white viewed person but in this case whereas if the racers want to risk thier lives so be it . It is the nature of racing and no one is forcing them out on the racetrack by any means . BUT .. as we all know the non motorcyclist community are always on the lookout for an excuse to say that motorcycling in general is as dangerous as catching bullets in your teeth. the Isle of man IS more dangerous than regular GP circuts therfore the injury rate is naturally higher . Im afraid of the non motorcyclist community taking this as a cue to stop racing altogether no matter how many safty updates have been made in the european tracks .... I can remember the Paris to Dakar race was either stopped or was debated to be stopped over motorcycle racers who where killed . Even though the deaths where caused by cars/trucks running them over when they slept / stopped on the course . I afraid of the Isle of man being on the same level as say Spa or assen . Jake | ||
| M1combat |
meaning not watching the TV broadcasts, or the movies, and not visiting the place. Sorry Blake... But I disagree with you on this one. I'd absolutely LOVE to go spend a bunch of money to watch people race at the island. If some die then they've accepted the situation. I don't think any of them just haven't heard that death might be possible on a motorcycle. So... Where does that put us? I think it means that we have an exciting event to watch. It's entertaining. I would love to go see the race, and if a pilot died while I was there I would most certainly cry. I would also understand the reason that the rest of them carry on with the weekend. I know that's not your issue. I understand that you aren't against the racing. But if you make the track safe it won't be the same for the riders or the fans. So... What if no one makes a profit off the race? It'll stop happening. You know that. Then the racers won't have the place to go prove their mettle. I think that's a huge dis-service to the racing community as a whole. I care about the racers. I could care less if there's some fat cat making money off the race. Makes no difference to me at all. I only care that the racers sign up for the race willingly, and get to test themselves against that stretch of road and against the other competitors. That's what racing is, nothing else matters. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Dale, You no read good. The intent of the petition is to remove support for the commercialization of the motorcycle racing at IOM. In other words, make it just like any other club race where the participants are there for one and only one reason, the joy of competitive motorcycle racing, not to help others earn a profit. Blake, That you no read good shit is getting a little old my friend. That is the first time you answered my question, so where the F was I supposed to read it before? So if that is the case, then who is it going to be sent to? The organizers? The riders? The residents of the Isle? The Television company that filmed it? the Discovery HD Theatre that aired it in the states? How on Earth do you think a club level race would have enough resources to make it as safe as it can be for a real road race, pay the participants, stop traffic for two weeks, employ tech inspectors, if you wish to remove the money from the race, what you are really wishing for is the end of the race. With no money, no race. Be honest. That is the end game. M1 +1 Bro!! | ||
| Blake |
You are still confused. An influx of money needed to run the race is in no way equivalent to profiteering or commercialization. Who said the racers need to be paid? Club racer don't get paid much if anything. I have no ulterior end game. If I wanted the race ended I'd say so. Period. I cannot be more honest. Thanks for questioning my honesty though. Real nice of you. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Thanks for questioning my honesty though. Real nice of you. Mea Culpa....I was a bit put out by your preferred "no read good" line and didn't word mine any better. Apologies. It was undeserved. I still do not think that event generates the windfall you may think it does after the costs of running a race and paying all those that are associated. I think the Isle residents receive a good boost to their income, as does Daytona and Sturgis during large bike events, both of which evolved from racing events, hill climbs etc...and make way more profit that the Isle would even come close to. I just find your logic in this matter a bit off, and while I am NOT confused, I am perplexed by it, but I have spoken my peace on it and you have answered most of it, except for who you were going to send the petition to...so I will be a lurker on this thread until some other point comes up worth popping off about. Have a good one. (Message edited by liquorwhere on September 02, 2009) | ||
| Blake |
If it amounts to anything, I'll fire it off to the IOM folks and the main commercial concerns and big name sponsors of the TV coverage. You'll be happy to know that so far the pole hasn't amounted to much. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
I'd be interested in seeing the numbers going back to the beginning, but here's some recent statistics from a big motorcycle event just down the road from me- and I'm pretty sure a few people are making money off these festivities... (from http://www.motorcycle-florida.com/bike-week-accide nts.htm) Bike Week and Biketoberfest Accidents Bike Week and its smaller cousin, Biketoberfest, draw hundreds of thousands of riders to Daytona and surrounding Florida counties. Unfortunately, the Bike Week and Biketoberfest death tolls keep climbing. Motorcycle Accident Deaths during Bike Week: Bike Week of March 2006 was the deadliest Bike Week on record with 21 deaths. The 10-day event attracted more than 500,000 visitors to the Daytona area. The previous record of motorcycle deaths connected to Bike Week was 15 fatalities which occurred in 2000. Although the turnout was about the same as previous years, the nature of the event is transforming, says Kevin Kilian, vice president of events and communications for The Chamber, Daytona Beach Halifax Area. It is no longer centered in Daytona Beach along Main Street, Kilian says. Bikers are being lured to such destinations as Ormond Beach, DeLand, Edgewater, and Orlando. During the most recent Biketoberfest (October 2005) there were five reported motorcycle related deaths. Although impaired and inexperienced motorcycle riders are to blame for many such accidents, according to law enforcement officials 40 percent of the Bike Week deaths in 2006 were caused by the driver of another vehicle. In the 2006 Bike Week fatalities in which drivers were determined at fault, at least six of the bikers who died were wearing helmets. Although there are some groups currently advocating stiffer penalties against car drivers who carelessly collide with motorcycles, in general careless drivers who kill bikers do not face felony charges such as vehicular homicide unless they leave the scene of the accident or they have been speeding, drinking or driving with a suspended license. Typically, traffic fines for drivers who kill range from $200 to $1,000. Licenses also often are suspended. Although these careless drivers can sometimes be held accountable for substantial money damages in personal injury or wrongful death claims, many negligent motorists carry no liability insurance and they have very few assets with which to compensate their victims or the family of the victims. That is why McMillen Law Firm strongly recommends that motorcycle riders carry uninsured motorist coverage. Types of Accidents Causing Deaths: There were of course many other motorcycle accidents that caused severe injuries that did not result in death. Some examples of the 2006 Bike Week motorcycle accidents involving rider or passenger deaths appear below: While trying to pass a truck pulling a trailer, a 51-year-old motorcycle rider collided head on into another motorcycle rider on State Road 40 just north of Ormond Beach. Both motorcycle riders died. A pickup turned in front of a biker on International Speedway Boulevard. The 60-year-old motorcyclist slammed into the side of the pickup and died on the scene. Troopers said the motorcycle rider was wearing a helmet and obeying the speed limit. A 44-year-old corrections officer from West Palm Beach died while driving his 2003 Honda Shadow from International Speedway Boulevard to Interstate 95. He lost control of the motorcycle and hit a guardrail. He was not wearing a helmet. In Port Orange, a 59-year-old rider from Virginia crossed over his lane and drove his Harley Davidson into a Harley Davidson driven by a 50-year-old rider from New York. Neither was wearing a helmet, and one died and the other was seriously injured. A female passenger who was wearing a helmet was reported to have leg injuries. In a crash occurring in Flagler County on U.S. Highway 1 near Belle Terre Parkway a 22-year-old car driver turned his vehicle in front of a motorcycle killing a 41-year-old motorcycle rider and his 37-year-old female passenger. A 21-year-old Suzuki rider was killed on State Road 435 north of Apopka when he lost control at a curb, slid, and hit a guardrail. A 63-year-old Lake Wales man was killed after a sport utility vehicle struck the back of his motorcycle when he was stopped at a light on West International Speedway Boulevard and Tomoka Farms Road in Daytona Beach. A man died in a single-motorcycle crash at U.S. Highway 1 and Old Kings Road in Flagler County when he lost control and drove off the road A 21-year-old Jacksonville woman died in St. Augustine while riding home from Bike Week. A sport utility vehicle changed lanes on Interstate 95 and hit the back of the motorcycle. The woman was a passenger on the bike driven by her 25-year-old boyfriend, who was reported to be in critical condition. Both riders were wearing helmets. A 42-year-old Lakeland man died when his 1985 Harley-Davidson motorcycle collided with another while traveling side-by-side on the Bee Line Expressway at the State Road 520 Exit in Brevard County. He was wearing a helmet. A 67-year-old traveling north on Interstate 95 near the Brevard-Volusia County line was killed when his Honda motorcycle ran into the center median near Scottsmoor. His motorcycle overturned several times in the median. He was wearing a helmet. A 1995 Honda motorcycle driven by a 32-year-old man from Deland collided with a sport utility vehicle on International Speedway Boulevard at about 2:30 a.m. Police said the SUV, driven by a 35-year-old St. Augustine woman, stopped momentarily at a red light and then drove into the intersection with Indigo Drive, where the crash occurred. The motorcycle rider and his 35-year-old passenger both died, and neither wore a helmet. Although the pair had head injuries, EVAC officials said helmets might not have saved their lives because they had other injuries. A motorcyclist died in Oak Hill on U.S. Highway 1 after crashing into a deer that ran onto the roadway at 6 am. The motorcyclist was then run over by a van Motorcycle Deaths Occurring during Biketoberfest 2006 During the much smaller 2006 Biketoberfest event there were 7 reported motorcycle deaths. Reports included: AGE: Male 70 HOMETOWN: Sanford CRASH SITE: State Road 415 and Fort Smith Boulevard, Deltona HELMET: Yes, but flew off from impact OF NOTE: Killed when a car turned left in front of him. AGE: Male 44 HOMETOWN: Anchorage, Alaska CRASH SITE: International Speedway Boulevard at Wild Olive Avenue HELMET: Yes OF NOTE: Was seen slumped over the handlebars before hitting a curb and then the pavement. Autopsy is pending. AGE: Male 68 HOMETOWN: Bunnell CRASH SITE: State Road 100, four miles west of Deen Road, Bunnell HELMET: Yes OF NOTE: Attempted to pass a tractor-trailer and was hit head-on. AGE: Female 58 HOMETOWN: Boynton Beach CRASH SITE: Interstate 4 near State Road 44, Volusia County HELMET: No OF NOTE: A passenger, was taken to Halifax Medical Center after the crash with injuries not thought to be life-threatening. She died later. AGE: Female 39 HOMETOWN: Coconut Creek CRASH SITE: West International Speedway Boulevard, Daytona Beach HELMET: not applicable OF NOTE: Was crossing ISB, not at a crosswalk, when she was struck by a motorcycle. AGE: Male 45 HOMETOWN: Spring Hill CRASH SITE: Mason Avenue and Williamson Boulevard. HELMET: Unknown OF NOTE: Speeding west on Mason Avenue, he lost control and hit a curb. AGE: Male 82 HOMETOWN: Tampa CRASH SITE: U.S. 92 and Harney Road, Tampa HELMET: Yes OF NOTE: Swerved to avoid a slowing SUV and rear-ended a pickup in the other lane. Was returning from Daytona Beach. Motorcycle Deaths Occurring during Biketoberfest 2005: There were 6 reported motorcycle deaths connected to Biketoberfest of October 2005, 4 of which occurred in a single incident. In 2003, two people died during BiketoberFest, and there were 4 deaths in 2001 and 4 deaths in 2002. In the October 2005, Biketoberfest, two cars plowed into four motorcyclists stopped at an accident scene. Three of the bikers died at the scene just before midnight Oct. 19 and a fourth died eight hours later at the hospital. All of the bikers were kneeling or lying in the southbound lane of State Road 415 after crashing into a shaggy black dog and each other. Police stated the bikers could not be seen in the middle of the dark roadway and there was no time for the oncoming car drivers to react. Also during the 2005 Biketoberfest, a 20-year-old man died when the motorcycle he was driving slammed into the back of a pickup. Police report the motorcyclist was wearing a helmet but was also speeding. According to the numbers above, that's 55 deaths during six events in five years- and that's only half of the twelve events in that six year period. I imagine the total number of injuries and deaths for the well-sponsored events here in Florida are shocking. While not directly comparable to IOM TT racing, it appears to me that the argument is the same- where do you draw the line on promotion of events where there's a good chance that the willing participants are subject to severe injury or death? I know where I stand. | ||
| Blake |
Please compare fatalities per hundred thousand. The worst year had 500,000 participants and 21 deaths. That's 4.2 per 100,000. Still almost an order of magnitude less than the Isle of Mann. It is shocking though. I had thought that Daytona did a better job than that. You can see why they crack down so hard on folks for misbehaving. (Message edited by blake on September 03, 2009) | ||
| Blake |
Don't even compare that to the IOM's worst year on record, ten fatalities per how many participants, 400? So 2,500 fatalities per 100,000 participants. See the difference? | ||
| Liquorwhere |
According to the numbers above, that's 55 deaths during six events in five years- and that's only half of the twelve events in that six year period. I imagine the total number of injuries and deaths for the well-sponsored events here in Florida are shocking. While not directly comparable to IOM TT racing, it appears to me that the argument is the same- where do you draw the line on promotion of events where there's a good chance that the willing participants are subject to severe injury or death? I know where I stand. While I agree that is a lot of death and a lot of money, I had mentioned these events earlier, the one thing I don't like is they contribute all deaths on a motorcycle during those events to bike week or biketoberfest. If a guy or gal is killed during the timeframe, whether they were at the event or not, it is counted as a "bike week or biketoberfest related fatality". I think those are counted in such a fashion to try and impose stricter laws against motorcyclists in Florida. I live here too and it bugs the hell out of me. You point is well taken though, where do you draw the line and why is this event, IOM, drawing so much ire from a few people. Good post. | ||
| Dentguy |
To try and be fair about the comparison, those Daytona numbers were for visitors according to Redbuelljunkie's post and link. Didn't say how many were on bikes. I know I wasn't on a bike that year. I don't know how many visitors go to the IOM races, but maybe they should be included for a comparison. Not just the number of racers. Not trying to pick, just trying to be fair. As for the fatalities at Daytona bike week races vs IOM races, no need to even compare those. | ||
| Blake |
I didn't include deaths due to miscellaneous traffic accidents, just those directly resulting from the racing activities. I am saying that promotion of the racing should be diminished until they can make it safer for the racers and the spectators. The issue at Daytona is a bunch of drunk drivers, not the venue. It's a totally different issue. | ||
| Blake |
Dale, If you'll read back through my other posts in this discussion, you'll see where I've drawn the line in a couple posts. I'm thinking that if the fatality rate could be dropped to around one every other year along with ongoing serious measures to improve course safety, then I probably wouldn't take offense at the event being promoted or for profit. At over 3 per year since 1990, it just isn't something that I can support. | ||
| Dentguy |
I didn't include deaths due to miscellaneous traffic accidents, just those directly resulting from the racing activities. I am saying that promotion of the racing should be diminished until they can make it safer for the racers and the spectators. Understood. The issue at Daytona is a bunch of drunk drivers, not the venue. It's a totally different issue. I don't even want to get started with all the drunks driving/riding at bike week. A few years ago I saw a guy (looked drunk) on a Harley fall over while sitting at a stop light with a 12 pack of beer strapped on. Very scary thinking about him riding around. (Message edited by dentguy on September 03, 2009) | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Well, it is easier to ride drunk than drive drunk.... R | ||
| No_rice |
I have found that risk is a huge part of motivation....only a true adrenaline junkie can understand... the risk is a big part of what draws people to do things. especially me. going to the isle of man is a goal of mine. its something i have wanted to do for along time just to experiance it. not even so much the race(because its not like you can see more then a blip of a rider going by when actually there) but the energy around a race like that would be an amazing experiance! but further along on that note, my ultimate goal would be able to run it. i would do it in a heartbeat. maybe someday i will figure out how to accomplish that goal. they way i look at it is i would much rather die running flat out on that circuit then sitting at a stoplight waiting for traffic. my odds are better of dying at that stoplight though... i never assumed id still be alive today. my family was sure id be dead by now. i push things hard. thats just the way i am. its going to happen someday no matter what i do. it would not bother me in the slightest for my tombstone to say i died racing the isle of man, it could say worse things. so i will make the most of it. after 32 years, my family would expect nothing less from me, i mean the present my parents gave me for graduation from highschool was to throw me out of a perfectly good airplane... if people keep willingly going into situations like this simply because they want to, then i dont honestly care what all is going on behind the scenes. that stuff has nothing to do with why i would be there, and why my throttle would be pinned. | ||
| Blake |
Tim, This is off the main gist of the topic, but isn't that a selfish attitude for a father? | ||
| Trojan |
This is off the main gist of the topic, but isn't that a selfish attitude for a father? So is smoking, drinking, crossing the road, riding a motorcycle or buying a gun for that matter. Or should we wrap ourselves in cotton wool because we become parents? By the way, the Manx GP has just finished. Run on he same course as the TT but for amatuer riders only (except for classic and post classic classes where professional riders are allowed). There was no fanfare or 'commercialism', no riders got paid to ride there (no prize money or start maney at all!) and hundreds of riders and thousands of spectators came from around the world to take part. Yes a rider was killed, but once again I repeat that is the nature of the course and the rider knew that before he got there. People have been trying to kill off the TT/Manx since the day it was invented. None have succeeded and hopefully none will. I wouldn't race there, but plenty do and that is the point of free will and personal choice. It is one of the last great motorcycling spectacles left on earth, and if people make a living from promoting it then good luck to them. | ||
| No_rice |
Tim, This is off the main gist of the topic, but isn't that a selfish attitude for a father? edit: i miss understood what you ment was off topic. thought you ment what i had posted, but you simply ment your statment about being a father. i will however leave what i originally started typing you and i both have never had a problem saying exactly what we think and standing behind our decisions and our opinions/morals. some may differ from eachothers, but i think we both respect eachother for doing so even if we dont agree. i guess i didnt think it was to far off base. you say you have a problem with it if the goverment is making money from this. but your not racing it. so, does your view of it really matter? no, but you are entitled to have it. i can tell you as for me personally, if i was racing in it, i could not care less who was making money off of what. that would have nothing to do with why i was there. sure, a nice purse for winning would be a great bonus. then again i would do it for free though. but then, i am not racing in it so my opinion doesnt matter either. i am just pointing out that i would think many of the people racing the isle of man may have similar views on it as i do. that they are there for no other reason then the experiance of racing the isle of man. whatever happens in the background is of no real concern to me making it from one end to the other. if there was no money to put it on, there would be no race. that simple. the money to put it on has to come from somewhere, and if it was always a money LOSING proposition the race would have died years ago. thats just the way things are. i am also fairly positive that most people actually racing in this are aware of the amount of people that have died running this course. or atleast that many have. you have a right to your opinion just as i do. i respect your choice to no longer partake in anything to do with it. i would assume, you being the person ive come to think you are, you would respect my right to still want to race in it. now as for me being a father. your right i am. if i avoided everything except things with an "acceptable" rate of deaths(whatever that is) i wouldnt do to much. i sure as hell wouldnt be riding a motorcycle at all. if we really want to be honest about this, there is NO acceptable risk of death for a parent. there is also NO amount of danger that is acceptable for your child to be part of. neither of which is the way life really is though. i can think of a handful of people i personally know that have been run over on there motorcycle just this year on public roads. i am on my bike almost everyday. my odds sure seem exponentially better that i will die in traffic then i would running that race for one day a year(more then likely though it would be one time EVER) and on another note, my daughter would never be able to do some of the things she loves to do and has been doing since she was old enough to walk, one of which is raise horses. shes 10 years old as of yesterday, and has been bucked off and kicked enough times. one wrong kick or even a wrong step from one of the horses could potentially kill or cripple her. but just like me getting hurt has never stopped her from doing the things she loves. here's the way i look at it, its life, live it until you dont anymore apparently im doing an ok job because im still around. (Message edited by no_rice on September 12, 2009) | ||
| Blake |
I agree Tim. You've always had my respect, and you've always accepted criticism in good stead. Actually, I wouldn't mind riding the course myself. I wouldn't race it, but I'd sure ride it. I don't have children. If I did, I'd still ride, no question, but I'm not sure I'd push the limits as much or as far. I think racing in the TT is over the line wrt risking life and limb for the thrill of it, at least for me, even without children. Just riding isn't, not for me. At some point, excessive risk taking becomes more like disrespecting life than living it. We all draw the line somewhere on risky activities, where that line might be is different for different folks. Heck even the way you'd ride the race would reflect that as well. | ||
| M1combat |
"At some point, excessive risk taking becomes more like disrespecting life than living it." Sounds like a pretty liberal point of view to me Blake... | ||
| Blake |
I'd say it's more conservative. I think it is pretty factual too. Putting one's life in extreme jeopardy for trivial reasons is disrespectful of the gift of life. Kinda like how driving a brand new Ferrari in a demolition derby would be disrespectful of the gift of a new car. | ||
| 186bigtwin |
I didn't read this whole post, but I do think that all the racers that competed in the Isle of man TT knew the risk, both the ones that died and the ones that didn't. It's one of the worlds last great racing spectacles. It's great that racers have enough balls to race there and the sponsors have enough balls to put it on. No one is drafted to do this, they race there freely. It ain't like they're flying Toranados and getting SA-6's 7's and 10's shot at them.......... | ||
| Trojan |
I'd say it's more conservative. I think it is pretty factual too. Putting one's life in extreme jeopardy for trivial reasons is disrespectful of the gift of life. Define trivial reasons? I don't think you understand what drives people to race in the TT/manx/Irish road racing and what kind of people they are. John Crellin, killed in this years Senior TT, is a good example of the type of person who wants to ride the TT every year and keeps coming back for more. Published Date: 12 June 2009 MANXMAN John Crellin was killed during today's Senior Isle of Man TT. The 55-year-old died when his Suzuki crashed on his fifth lap of the course. Just hours earlier he had competed in the inaugural TTXGP zero-emissions race and secured a place on the podium by claiming third in the open class, riding a machine for Team TORK. Mr Crellin, who lived in Upper Dukes Road, Douglas, had a strong sense of adventure and was a keen mountaineer. Last month he was forced to abandon his third attempt at climbing Mount Everest when he was taken ill with gastroenteritis. His previous attempts at Everest came in 1999, when he suffered oxygen problems, and again in 2003 when altitude sickness forced him back. Mr Crellin, a civil engineer with the Department of Transport's design services division, had already managed to climb the world's other six highest peaks: Elbrus in 2000, Kilimanjaro in 2001, McKinley in 2001, Vinson Massif in 2002, Aconcagua in 1998, 2008 and 2009, Carstensz Pyramid in 2006 and Kosciuszko, also in 2006.. Most people who partake in extreme sports probably have more regard and respect for life and more undertsnading of what life means than any of us mere mortals who don't risk death on a regular basis. I used to work with a guy who was the only survivor of a Chinook helicopter crash, and he was the maddest craziest biker/climber/surfer I have ever met. He said that he had stared at death and didn't want to waste another minute of life by not living it to the max. | ||
| Blake |
"Define Trivial." Exactly.  | ||
| M1combat |
But that's my point... Your definition of trivial includes racing at a venue known to be particularly dangerous to the participants and to a certain degree the spectators. That isn't my definition of "risking" life for a trivial reason at all. That's my definition of living it right to the end. Have you ever watched a Baja 1000? I plan on racing the Baja 1000 next year with "Team Viejo Racing". More spectators get killed in that race than racers. They stand on the dang race track for the thrill of watching a trophy truck drive by at >100Mph on a dirt road less than five feet away. They make the choices. Racing is not safe, but the racer is willing to take the risk to race, as are the spectators to watch the race. The races wouldn't happen at all if they weren't promoted. The races wouldn't be promoted if there wasn't money to be made. So... The fact that people are willing to make money by putting on a race lets people like me live their lives the way they want them to be lived, and maybe lose it in the process. I'm ok with that. If I wasn't I wouldn't be fast. It's as simple as that. I know your going to stick to your guns, but your point of view is very much like a liberal's on this subject. That's not to turn this political at all, but I think we all know that some people think they know what's best for other people, and other people chose not to participate themselves. Where are you at with this one? | ||
| Blake |
I don't agree at all that the races wouldn't happen if there wasn't money to be made. The ManxGP according to those in the know is not a money-making event. Good for it! Putting one's life in significant jeopardy for a mere thrill, when one can get the same thrill without anywhere near the excessive risk is to me to risk life for a trivial reason. Norgay and Hillary, the first men to climb Everest were not mere thrillseekers. They were actually out to accomplish real and tangible science and discovery and to document the human experience of the feat. When Lindbergh crossed the Atlantic, it wasn't for mere thrill seeking. He was out to achieve real serious accomplishment that would lead to an explosion of aerial international commerce and travel. Those folks, Lindbergh and Norgay and Hillary were living life to the fullest and if they had failed they would as you have said been living it to the end towards noble pursuits. Crashing a motorcycle as a result of thrill seeking isn't a noble pursuit. Living life to the fullest to me is to learn, create, survive, to extend the human capacity for prosperity and success, all while appreciating all of creation, and sharing it all with family and good friends. What is more fulfilling and gratifying in life, spending a weekend getting to know new friends in Daytona Beach, FL; or pushing the limit of a motorcycle on a wickedly dangerous hazard strewn racing course? I enjoy motorcycle racing, but in the scheme of things it is a pretty shallow endeavor, just for fun, a game for grownups. It's contrived competition. Real life, real competition for knowledge and human connection is where one should take risks for true fulfillment in life. I'm sure some philosopher has said it a lot better than I have. I just think that it is disrespectful to jeopardize our gift of life in trivial pursuits. Just to clarify, I don't put professional athletes in the same category as thrill-seekers. They are pushing the human experience to the very limits of what is possible and thus demonstrating our God-given capacity for achievement, and I appreciate them. They also typically don't put their lives in significant jeopardy. Oh, and that thing you said "If I wasn't I wouldn't be fast." Dude. Trust me. Neither you nor I know what it is like to "be fast." Repeat after me, "We are sllllooooowwwwwww." Unless of course you are talking about downing a mug of cold beer.  I'm all for letting folks risk their necks as they see fit. I just think it is a poor choice when the risk is extreme and the reason is trivial. In that you are right to call me a liberal, the true sense of that word. Or more accurately, libertarian. You are confused if you think I am trying to force others to not race or risk their lives. They can go jump off a cliff if they really desire that. I don't care. My point is that when they do so, others should not be promoting and glorifying it for profit. | ||
| Blake |
Almost forgot... Those people you mentioned who stand five feet from the track in order to get a thrill from having a truck race by at 100+ MPH are utter and complete idiots! Talk about a frivolous waste of life. Unbelievable. They must really have nothing truly worth living for to be so disrespectful and careless with their lives, not to mention the effect on the poor hapless racer who ends up with human moron splattered all over his truck. Your point was? | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
I'm all for letting folks risk their necks as they see fit. I just think it is a poor choice when the risk is extreme and the reason is trivial. And this is where so many people disagree with your stance- there are many, many individuals who do not consider their reasons for competing at the Isle of Man trivial, and it comes across as patronizing and insulting to disparage their volition. | ||
| Blake |
You are confused. I've not disparaged anyone but the greed heads looking to profit off the excessively dangerous racing. |
