| Author | Message | ||
     Gregtonn |
If you like how it went this year or if you didn't like it, what suggestions do you have to improve the series? If you're one of those who refused to watch, what changes could be made to make you consider watching/attending the series? G | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I hate the ride thru penalty for jump start....it should be a 5 second penalty. | ||
| Fireboltwillie |
now that the buell is competetive in superbike, take it out of dsb to stop the whiners. let danny and everyone else ride the RR (and find some way to get one into higbee's hands) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
well, I am not sure it's competitive yet. remember that NJMP is not a track where the literbikes can stretch their legs. The RR in its current state will have a tougher time on faster tracks. | ||
| Backcountryme |
I agree with Fresnobuell. I think there is some more development that need to happen on the RR. The R is a great bike for the SportBike class. I don't think that there are as many whiners now as there was at the start of the season. THe racing was the best we have had in the US for many, many years. I would like to see a few tweeks to the rules. I really would like to see some good purse money next year. I would also like to see DMG promote the riders a little more. I know that many don't like Nascar, but you cannot deny that the drivers are superstars. I would like to see that with our road racing boys and girls. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
If DMG sold their rights to the series to Allisports and stuck to cars and phantom yellows, other than that, I don't see any reason to watch that series. I know some of you really like it, and that is great, I am happy for you and that is sarcasm free, but I don't care for what they did, are doing and there is nothing Roger Edmundson could do except resign that would make me applaud. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Sorry to hear that Liquor, you are missing some great racing. It really is sad people cant' get past their bias and hate of DMG to enjoy the show. It's not like the AMA racing was good prior to DMG. I might be able to understand it better if they made moves detrimental to the racing. ???? | ||
| Gregtonn |
Dale, I think I see what's going on now. Tell me if I have this straight. You hate DMG so much that, as long as they own the rights to the series you wouldn't watch even it was (and just it might be) the best damn racing on the planet. Did Roger Edmundson or someone from DMG run over your pet turtle when you were a kid? G | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Too much Stupidbikeplanet i thinks | ||
| Dentguy |
"now that the buell is competitive in superbike, take it out of dsb... " I agree. Two Buells in the top ten of Superbike and it's competitive enough that it shouldn't be in Sportbike. The statement was made that it needs some more development. Maybe so, but I don't think it's looks good to keep running it in Sportbike when some modifications make it plenty competitive in Superbike. If it needs more development for Superbike then develop it for Superbike. If you are strong enough now to play with the big boys, you need to only play with the big boys. Just an opinion and I'm sure most won't agree. By the way, it's not just a Buell thing so don't think I'm not a fan or a hater. I feel the same way if it's Ducati, Aprilia or someone else. I just think it should be in Superbike competing with the top of that class. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I think is it awesome that the 1125r is a flexible enough platform to perform well in both classes. It would be interesting if Buell Racing produced some perfect 1125r engines like the factory 600s...likely we would see some repercussions from DMG. | ||
| Sparky |
Perhaps if Buell were to make a version of the 1125 destroked to 1000 cc's and dropped a few pounds, it could be competitive with the Aprilia 1000 running in DSB. That's a big expensive if though... | ||
| Fresnobuell |
If Buell is going to homologate anything other than the 1125 it will be a 1200cc version to battle with the big boys. I think you mean differently, but literally, why would anyone want to be competitive with an aging, out-gunned Aprillia? It's not even going to be around next year. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Aprillia isn't gonna be in dsb next year per the telecast, as that bike isn't gonna be made any more. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
For a start I'd like them to broadcast the series on a regular basis in Australia  | ||
| Trojan |
Develop the Superbike and drop the DSB bike. Buell have proved a point in DSB but the bike needs to be racing against other litre bikes to get international credibility (I know that doesn't matter to a lot of you, but it will certainly matter to Buell sales if they can compete at Superbike level).That will get rid of any arguments and detractions that still rage about the eligibility of the bike in what is effectively a 600 class, and will create interest amongst those that only follow Superbike racing and not what they see as the support classes. As has been said before, 2 bikes in the top ten is a good start in Superbike and can be built on. Lastly, there needs to be at least one full on factory bike | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Dale, I think I see what's going on now. Tell me if I have this straight. You hate DMG so much that, as long as they own the rights to the series you wouldn't watch even it was (and just it might be) the best damn racing on the planet. Did Roger Edmundson or someone from DMG run over your pet turtle when you were a kid? LOL no he didn't, look the guy used to be an exec with the AMA, and there was a lengthy lawsuit between the AMA and him when he was terminated, but that is not why I dislike the guy so much. I hate NASCAR, despise it, cannot even look at a minute of it, it is like pro wrestling to me, same as monster truck crap. I believe in my heart that Roger E wants to truly use the NASCAR model with motorcycles and to be honest, I cannot stomach it. He used the Grand Am series to mix and match different cars just like DSB, and I don't care for that either. Like I have written in the past, they won't miss me, and that is fine, but to push away the manufacturer's in the manner in which he did was ridiculous, one or two will run factory teams, probably Yamaha, Buell(quasi factory I know) and maybe one more...who that will be I cannot guess. Fresno-I read many online and written magazines, you really want to get good racing coverage, get MCN delivered from Europe, about $550 bucks a year and worth every penny, I circulate my copies to all my friends and I have seen six month old magazines that I have given my friends held like gold by them. I have seen your posts, I have a feel for where you are coming from, and I disagree with most, but not all of what you have to say. That's ok, we both have one thing in common, we love the Buell. That is the point I really want to make. Buell to me is a fine machine, I think it would be a better machine if Erik had the ability or resources to design and produce their own engine, and I think in time that will come. I have ridden the 1125R, nice bike for sure, my old XB that I sold to a good kid that totalled his, was a great bike, and now it has a home with a guy that will truly love it. I love my X1 and in the future will probably buy another Buell depending on the models, but I don't think the foray into DSB and the win means as much as you think to most riders out there, Fresno I think made a good point about those that buy only what is winning, and there may be a pop from that...but maybe not. It got them racing at least. I just don't think it was a good series. I know what you all have posted about the close racing and all that, but I just don't see it being as good to the rest of the motorcycling world as you might think. Eslick can ride that bike, no doubt, I look forward to seeing him in WSBK hopefully on a Buell, but I won't be seeing him at or in an AMA event as I won't watch it. So there ya go. Have a good one!! | ||
| Jaimec |
If Ducati can build a 1200cc engine that can be competitive in Superbikes, then there is no reason in hell Rotax can't either. Get rid of the DSB bike, it sends a message that Rotax/Buell can only compete against bikes with engines half its size. That's no way to steal sales from the competition. I want Buell to take on the WORLD, not some funny little artificial racing class in just the United States. Oh, and when DMG makes rules, they should be in CONCRETE and not change in the middle of the year. Want a rules change? Wait till NEXT year. Don't keep changing the rules as the season progresses, it confuses the hell out of people. | ||
| Fuzzz |
Gregtonn, If I read your post right, you were asking what DMG could do to increase the fan base and popularity of the series. Well here's my take on it all... They should have done a better job of explaining the rules, so that the un-initiated could understand why an 1125cc bike is competing with 600ccI-4's, 1000cc twins, 675cc triples, etc. The rules for Superbike need to be opened up, with more modifications allowed, to be more or less World Superbike spec, with better tires, and they need to put Superbikes back in the Daytona 200. DMG also needs to pay purses for each race, instead of each race weekend. They've already eliminated the rolling start, which was very unpopular across the country, and they finally got Speed to broadcast the events the same day, although far too late at night to capture many new viewers. DMG needs to follow it's own rules of conduct in handling confrontations, and be more professional in handling on-track emergencies. The things they're doing right are: adding new tracks to the series and helping them to develop an understanding of motorcycle racing safety, getting the fans and the riders to connect, and creating a class that produced the best racing I've seen in a long time. This changing of the guard is going to be a process, not an event, and they'll lose some and they'll win some, but overall, I think they're headed the right direction. So there you go, my 2 cents... | ||
| Rfischer |
Silly me. I thought racing was about entertainment. For the competitors and for the spectators. Something DMG has delivered in spades. I get it now....it's supposed to be about notional purity of "rules". Carry on. | ||
| Elvis |
We seem to be blurring a little bit the lines between what the AMA should do and what the Buell teams should do. If the AMA structure stands as it was proposed last weekend (and I have no reason to think we'd see any dramatic differences) then I think Buell teams would be foolish not to take advantage of the rule structure and compete in Sportbike. I'm going to focus on what I'd like to see the AMA do with only minimal comments about how I'd like to see Buell integrate into that. My plan includes some "tough love" as it relates to Buell, but I think Buell, the AMA and we consumers would be better off if my plan was implemented. 1. Superbike - keep it basically as is. Long term plans could include a shift toward FIM rules but only with a pre-condition that there would have to be a certain number of well-funded teams before that shift takes place. Buell can race the 1125RR, but they must, by March and Daytona, publicly promise that they will have a street version that includes any modifications that were included on the 1125RR that would not have been allowed under normal Superbike rules (and Buell and AMA should clearly communicate what, if any, those modifications are). That bike should be available for sale by the last race of the season. 2. Sportbike - limit twins displacement to 850 cc but drop weight to the same as 600's. Work with Ducati to get them to field a serious team. I'm not sure what the current homologation units are for Sportbike, but it shouldn't be more than 400 units for twins at least until some manufacturers are able to offer competitive twins. Ducati would be doing themselves and their customers and the series a favor by making a true limited production 848R rather than just tarting up an 848 with Nicky Hayden graphics. And while Buell almost certainly wouldn't be able to get anything ready by 2010, I don't see why, if they can make an 1125RR that can compete with literbikes, they couldn't produce a limited edition 850RR that could compete with 600's. (I'd be first in line for one of the 400 street versions of that one) While we're seeing some great, big-displacement twins coming from Ducati, KTM and Buell, there is a big shortage of serious, lower displacement twins. I think we have seen that the FIM 750 cc limit doesn't give manufacturers enough incentive to develop twins, so I'd like to see the AMA step up. Ideally, it wouldn't just be Ducati and Buell who would develop 850 twins, but hopefully other manufacturers and maybe we'd even see some Japanese variations. I'd also limit the field to the top 30 qualifiers. The Sportbike fields were too big this year and there's no reason to have so many bikes out there when half of them are just going to end up being back-markers. Slower riders can go to Moto-GT if they still want to race AMA (and that would have the side-effect of helping to build Moto-GT). I'd put similar limits on Superbike, but the fields there were small enough not to be a problem yet. 3. Supersport - Get rid of this class. The idea of turning it into a club-racing series just seems like a really bad one to me. The AMA should be the fastest riders in the country and, while there is a place for development of young riders, the new plan just rubs me the wrong way. 4. 450 singles Rookies Cup- good idea. I'm not clear on all the details, but the goal should be to develop and show-case the most talented young riders in the country. 5. Moto-GT - Cut it down to one class rather than expanding it to 3. Some of the racers that have been displaced by my grid limits above should move into Moto-GT so that there are enough riders in the single class to fill a reasonable grid. Hopefully interest in the class will grow until it's a serious part of a four class weekend. Phase in rules that allow larger displacement bikes to compete until bikes are eventually close to Superbike spec. Make the Daytona 200 a Moto-GT race. So there would be 4 classes that offer very different racing but still high quality riders and racing in all classes. As has been proposed, I'd go with the standing starts and other technical rules that the AMA has said they'll use next year. And, perhaps most importantly, WORK A SERIOUS TELEVISION COVERAGE DEAL. The one we got in the later part of this season wasn't bad (and I like the idea of shifting the races to the evening rather than showing them live since most people aren't going to be sitting by their TV's on weekend afternoons), but I'd like to see more coverage, some behind-the-scenes, and better coverage of Moto-GT. If Speed won't give them better coverage, they should consider shopping other networks (with all the channels available out there, can it really be that hard?). As for Buell, I'd like to see RMR keep Danny and Barnes and move into Superbike. I'd like to see Latus sign Taylor Knapp and Shawn Higbee, use their involvement and last years success to pick up a big, new, Geico type sponsor and race Superbike. I'd like to see Erick Buell racing send an expedition into South America to find Eric Bostrom and put him together with Cory West. That would give three solid teams that paired older, experienced riders with young bucks. | ||
| Jaimec |
Elvis: Every single one of your suggestions makes perfect sense. I concur. | ||
| Jaimec |
Rfischer: If you want entertainment instead of a sporting event, watch professional wrestling or roller derby. | ||
| Trojan |
Silly me. I thought racing was about entertainment. For the competitors and for the spectators. Something DMG has delivered in spades. I get it now....it's supposed to be about notional purity of "rules". Carry on. Racing is not about entertainment, it is about competition. If the competition is good enough then it will be entertaining. As for 'purity' of rules. I don't think it is too much to ask of a race organisation that they can come up with a set of rules in January (or hopefully before!) that will last at least a whole season without changing or being 'slightly bent' when the organisers fancy it. Whether DMG have done a great job will be seen in seasons to come if teams return to the grid to race again next year, and if atendances at circuits improve. It is already becoming apparent that there may be only one Japanese factory team next year, and I wouldn't be surprised to see that watered down compared to this years effort. Without the continued factory and industry support all it will be is club racing unfortunately. Like it or not it is the factories and the big teams that attract the money/glitz/glamour and viewing public into the sport. Without them the DMG series will surely be short lived and definitely not 'entertaining'. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Posted on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 11:05 am: It is great to have hindsight, but for almost all year there are those who los&t the real sight that this class was a formula class that replaced the old Formula Extream If any of the teams didn't like the formula they didn't have to play. Yes there were adjustments during the season, there was also a HP to weight test. As a Buell kind of guy, I was glad to see the real limits put on the teams. These bikes were based on production sport bikes, with very limited engine mods and even more limited mods to forks and shocks. Ever give any thought to why some of the former FX riders had a few get-offs this year, take away their $15K front forks and replace them with over the counter race parts available to race teams and? My bottom line is that the DSB formula was fair to all and the real advantage Buell had was a very talented and hungry kid by the name of Danny. Terry - www.jtsperformance.com | ||
| Rfischer |
"..about competition.." Tell that to the sponsors and media who pay the big buckeroos to make it all possible, Matt. Doubtful that they will be so sanguine, or purist. And, Jaime, why exactly do you race or 'spectate if not for entertainment? However, if you want to engage in semantic games, I can "compete" nicely, being a professionally trained semantist and all...but I'd much rather enjoy the spectacle of closely performance- matched bikes from multiple brands ridden to their maximum potential by superbly skilled riders. And however the "rules" accomplish that is just ducky by me. As a footnote, MotoGP would be the benchmark for "rules", no?? How much fun is/has it been to watch The Doctor smote all in his path for the past 6 or 7 seasons? And, the dominant marque being whatever he parks his butt on. While his skills are certainly a wonder to behold, how many times do you want to watch the same show? But, whatever. DMG will do what makes the best business sense for them. They ARE a business after all, and I'm betting the putative sanctity of rules appears nowhere in their business plan. | ||
| Slaughter |
Regardless of rules, we CANNOT EVER AGAIN have superbikes at Daytona without re-designing the track. 5 years ago, they were SLIDING both ends of the bike - each and every lap - and timing the slide to avoid the wall before downshifting for turn one. NO MORE superbikes at Daytona - unless the idea is turn moto-racing back into a blood sport. The machines have "outgrown" the tracks that were designed 50 years ago. (yeah, I know my post is a bit late) | ||
| Trojan |
As a footnote, MotoGP would be the benchmark for "rules", no?? How much fun is/has it been to watch The Doctor smote all in his path for the past 6 or 7 seasons? And, the dominant marque being whatever he parks his butt on. While his skills are certainly a wonder to behold, how many times do you want to watch the same show? Every so often a rider will come along that can win on anything, regardless of the rules. Changing the rules in MotoGP hasn't stopped the same super talented bunch of guys winning everything despite the efforts of certain parties to do just that, and it wouldn't make any difference in DSB, WSB or lawn mower racing either. Talent is talent, whatever the rules. Organisers have tried to 'dabble' with the rules of various series over theyears in a vain attempt to make them 'more competitive' (i.e. stop the same person winning) but all eventually fail because the top riders willjust adapt to the new rules quicker than the rest and will have teams that can afford to exploit the rules better than lesser mortals can. Tell that to the sponsors and media who pay the big buckeroos to make it all possible, Matt. Doubtful that they will be so sanguine, or purist. Without top riders and the factory involvement necessary to attract top riders there will be no outside sponsorship or money coming into the upper echelons of the sport, and without them DMG will not have a 'business', just a club race. The top teams and factories don't look on racing as 'entertainment' but as serious competition. Red Bull, Monster, Marlboro etc don't put millions into motor racing for entertainment, they put it there so the TV audience can see their logo as often as possible and preferably winning. If it was just for entertainment value the team at the back of the grid would be as heavily sponsored and supported as the one at the front, which is seldom the case. I can be hugely entertained by club racing at times just as much as I am by WSB or MotoGP, but it ain't going to get 100,000 people through the gates on a Sunday afternoon if there isn't a professional aspect to the show and nor is it going to get a big bucks TV deal without a major draw for the TV companies. MotoGP attracts national audiences in Spain and Italy in the tens of millions every week. Even in Superbike obsessed Britain the figures are in the region of 8 million a week. I don't know what the US figures are, but how many of these would bother watching if Rossi wasn't there or if he bikes were all relatively unknown privateer entries? Succesful motorpsorts formats, whether F1, MotoGP, WSB, Indycar, Nascar all have one thing in common, and that is HUGE levels of investment. If DMG carry on their campaign to root out the factories from the racing where will that investment come from? 2009 still had the factory involvement legacy simply because they had already planned their race schedule before DMG took over. It will be interesting to see just how many factory supported teams turn up in 2010. | ||
| Dentguy |
"Racing is not about entertainment, it is about competition. If the competition is good enough then it will be entertaining." My thought exactly. "I think Buell teams would be foolish not to take advantage of the rule structure and compete in Sportbike." I guess you can't blame them for doing that to win, but to many, I think it looks just like what you said. That Buell is taking advantage of the rule structure to race in Sportbike. Especially now that the bike is competitive enough in Superbike. "The AMA should be the fastest riders in the country..." I assume you are speaking of AMA Pro Racing as in DMG only? Because AMA handles motorcycle racing of many different kinds and levels all over the country. Just trying to clarify. "..about competition.." "Tell that to the sponsors and media who pay the big buckeroos to make it all possible, Matt. Doubtful that they will be so sanguine, or purist." Sponsors know it's about competition. I going out on a limb here, but probably safe to say that most sponsors pay big bucks for the advertising. Advertising to those who are watching due to entertainment or those who may be there just because they enjoy the competition (racers). Competition is entertaining for those watching. Entertainment creates a platform for sponsors to advertise. Without competition you won't get the entertainment and the big buckeroos from sponsors. Nobody is going to put out the big buckeroos for people to ride around a track and not compete. Racing is about competition and the other stuff comes along because of it. Just my thoughts and I'm no advertising expert so what do I know anyway. Looks like Trojan got some of my points across already. Sorry I type really, really slow. (Message edited by dentguy on September 10, 2009) | ||
| Gregtonn |
"If DMG carry on their campaign to root out the factories from the racing where will that investment come from?" You answered your own question before you asked it. "Red Bull, Monster, Marlboro etc don't put millions into motor racing for entertainment, they put it there so the TV audience can see their logo as often as possible and preferably winning." The more lead swapping, the more of those logos get exposed. With one or two factory teams dominating races only one or two logos get prime exposure. G |
