| Author | Message | ||
     Tattoo72 |
I should say "I hope" I found my ticking noise. My bike had been developing a loud ticking noise. It was to the point that I could hear it even with a loud muffler and earplugs. It was louder than the typical Buell engine noises we have all grown to accept. It almost sounded like bad lifters but not exactly. Using a mechanics stethoscope I could hear it predominantly coming from behind the timing cover and the oil pump. So a tear down was in order. Here is what I found. The front intake camshaft bushing is worn. As you can see in the pics. The machining of the oil groove in the bushing doesn't look all that great. I'm thinking there may have been a few pieces of metal that may have worked loose and found their way between the bushing and camshaft. Luckily the camshaft shows no signs of abnormal wear. I will measure everything at work tomorrow and see just how far out it is. Since i'm this far into the engine. I will also be installing a new set of V-thunder (CompCams) lifters. I've had them on the shelf here in the shop so I figure I might as well put them to good use. I hope this should get rid of all me engine noise.     (Message edited by tattoo72 on August 30, 2009) | ||
| Skinstains |
I don't know what year your bike is but one of them bronze oil pump drive worms might be a good idea while you're in there. | ||
| Tattoo72 |
It is an 05. I actually have the updated gear here also. I ordered the crankshaft holding tool so I can install it. It should be here on Wed. | ||
| Ochoa0042 |
let me know how the timing goes when you get there  | ||
| Tattoo72 |
Do you mean lining up the camshafts or the actual ignition timing? Both are easy to do. I just finished reinstalling the camshafts tonight. I guess it helps that i've been an auto tech for the past 18 years. | ||
| Ironheadsporty |
I'm not sure if it's the case with this engine but most of the older sporty's needed to have the oil pump timed. I built an old ironhead in the past and didnt know that it needed to get timed. Moral of the story was the pump was pressurizing the base at the wrong time and ended up "blowing a jug"... (Sounds like a nice thing to happen when i look back at it)... Brilliant Rear Stand btw... Wish i would have thought of that... | ||
| Ochoa0042 |
turns out that i had thought that i had the engine in the compression stroke then doing the ignition timing but i had it on the exhaust stroke.. i was having a hard time there, then i turned the crank 360 to the compression stroke and did the ignition timing real quick, its set a tiny tad micro nil pinch of a hair advanced (Message edited by ochoa0042 on September 01, 2009) | ||
| Blake |
I don't recall anything in the Buell service manuals about timing the oil pump. They just say to install the pump. | ||
| Blake |
What was causing the load noise? | ||
| Tattoo72 |
No timing the oil pump. Just prime it with a little oil and install. The front intake camshaft outer bushing was worn. It had excessive wear. You could actually rock the camshaft back and forth in the bushing. As the lifter would ride up and down on the lobe. It would put pressure on the camshaft then unload it. The camshaft was actually moving up and down in the bushing on every revolution. This was causing the loud ticking. The crankshaft gear drives this camshaft directly and the oil pump. So I was hearing the noise from behind the timing cover and from the oil pump. I also replaced the lifters with some from V-Thunder(CompCams). I was taught years ago from a very experienced engine builder. That when ever you have any metal particles in an engine to replace the lifters. He used to say "‘Hydraulic lifters are the best oil filters on the market’. In simple terms, that means dirt can get in a lifter through the oil feed, but can’t get back out. A lifter will capture dirt particles as small as 1 micron. A top quality fine oil filter only captures dirt 5 microns or larger. So clean engine assembly is a must. Over 90% of failed lifters are a result of dirty oil. Wear as fine as 50 millionths of an inch (that is 1/2 of 1/10th of ONE thousanth of an inch can make a lifter fail. And it takes only seconds. Clean engine assembly, clean oil and priming of the lifters before initial start up is essential". | ||
| Tattoo72 |
Fired her up tonight. No more ticking! Looks like the new cam bushing and lifters fixed it.  | ||
| Ochoa0042 |
good eye/ear.. i didnt think that was the problem | ||
| Buellblastrider |
out of curiosity what was te mileage on your bie when you replaced the lifters. i know evos are good for about 30000 miles which mine is at now | ||
| Tattoo72 |
6,500 but I replaced them due to contamination not wear. See 4 posts up where I talked about lifters being "the worlds best oil filters". I was paranoid that some of the bushing material had found it's way into the lifters. So I figured since I was already that far into the engine and they are only $14.01 each. Why not replace the lifters just to be safe. I used V-Thunder lifters. They are made by Compcams. I went with their regular hydraulic roller lifters. http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/me rchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=VT&Product_Code= 850-1&Category_Code=LFTRPHRL They also make their Hy-Rev lifters. Those would be nice in a race engine. They are basicly a high quality but low cost version of Jim's Hydro Solids. http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/me rchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=VT&Product_Code= 875-1&Category_Code=LFTRHYREV | ||
| Ourdee |
Need more pics.  | ||
| Tattoo72 |
What other pics would you like to see? Here is a picture of the factory lifters. They were taken apart to see if there was any pieces of metal in them. There was none. This leads me to believe that the cam bushing was the actual cause of my ticking.  | ||
| Bromanowski |
I need to build a buell engine. I've been building race engines for cars for years but everything was newer tech, OHC and stuff. These V-Twins are a different breed. Once I get one apart I'll understand them better and then I can really start to mod mine! | ||
| Beachbuell |
How would bushings produce a ticking noise I'm wondering? The cams ride inside the bushings. A ticking noise would be some kind of metal to metal contact or the such. Not from the cams rolling in the bushings. | ||
| Tattoo72 |
You could actual rock the cam back and forth in the bushing. There was a LOT of extra space between the bushing and camshaft journal. I wish I had taken a video. The camshaft goes under a load when the lifter rides the camshaft lobe. Forcing the camshaft journal down against the bushing "tick noise". Then looses the load as it rotates around and the lifter rides the heel of the camshaft. Now the camshaft is unloaded and loose in the bushing. By having all the extra play in the bushing it allowed the camshaft to move excessivly. It also transfered this noise into the other camshafts through the gears. It was also transfering the noise right into the oil pump through the gears. Here is a picture of the specific camshaft that was making the noise. See how all the gears mesh and how the noise traveled. From camshaft gear to crankshaft gear to oil pump gear.  | ||
| Ducxl |
Great forensic diagnosis.Very informative. Congrats on your success Jim. I'm surprised you didn't install cams with a little more lift while you were there. | ||
| New12r |
Good find! I would have told you that you were crazy and Buells just make noise. | ||
| Tattoo72 |
I agree that Buell engines are noisy. But there comes a time when the noises just become to loud and need investigating. I knew it was time for a tear down when I could hear the ticking even with an aftermarket muffler and earplugs. | ||
| Aaron75 |
I know this is an old thread but, I think i have the same issue with the same cam and noise. how difficult was it to replace the bushing? and did you need to ream them at all? Ive read that installing new bushings may require pulling the engine? |
