| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Page up? | ||
| Jst |
I pulled the primary prepared for the worst when the bike stuck in 4th I got it to release and shift smoothly. I figured while she was apart I'd do the updates. Wouldn't you know it? None of the dealers down here have either the updated detent plate or tensioner. I guess I'll get them on order. I did notice that two of the locating pins for the detent are shorter (8 mm) than the other two (1 cm). This causes the detent plate to tend to float/pivot on the longer two. Is this normal? The good news is I can pull the primary apart and put it back together in about 4 hours. JT | ||
| Reepicheep |
Jst... as I recall, I think a couple of my pins were shorter as well. If you are replacing the detent plate, replace the little spring clip that holds it on as well, I don't know if it is included with the replacement plate (I don't think it is). Bill (getting ready to do the same job to replace my 2nd gear with worn dogs). | ||
| Hoser |
Fella's: The pins arn't shorter , they have moved axially in relation to the other pins. This is not normal , as a matter of fact , I see it as a design flaw and it's been discussed here before.  This pic doesn't show the detail , but once you are in this far you may observe a shiny or worn area on the face of the detent plate , where it's made contact with the back of the clutch hub.This is usually an indication of shift drum problems. Since it's real easy and you are in this far anyways , go ahead and remove the gear cluster from the crankcase.  See anything unusual ?? , the pins on this shift drum have moved and the detent plate is not square with the drum . It happens over a period of time , you will notice it as rough shifting , the trans not wanting to go into certain gears. This one is mine , I could feel it through the toe of my boot , it was kinda "crunchy".  There are a more than few ways to deal with this but only one effective way , replace the shift drum. If you buy an OEM drum there is a chance it can do the same , or you can use a Baker drum with the choice of standard shift pattern or reverse pattern (GP). The benefit of this design is the detent plate is bolted on , rather than retained by a cheesy little clip like the stock one is. If you are cheap , poor , in a jamb , or a bucktoothed hillbilly you can hammer the pins back in and hope for the best. I have changed about 6 of these on various bikes in the last few years due to the pins "walking" , when I repaired my S1 ( before the baker one was introduced)I made an attempt to repair / update my drum by removing the pins and drilling the drum so I could thread the hole in the center and then use a bolt with a small spacer behind the detent plate . The clip to retain the detent is piss poor in my opinion , a bolt has to be better.................. Then it came time to drill the hole in preparation for threading , ..... with the drum chucked in the lathe , that sucker was so hard I didn't have a drill bit that would touch it !!, I was pissed !! What did I do ? , replace the drum with an OEM piece , funny thing too , not long after this the S2 needed a new drum as well. J.D.H. | ||
| Hoser |
Now that I think about it , I was able to drill the hole but was unable to tap the threads , I had intended to use some crank pin rollers to replace the detent pins but my plan fell apart when I could not tap the threads. Also the Baker drum was available at the time , I just wasn't aware of it's existance or that is what I would have done to update my transmission. J.D.H. oh here's more related discussion ............... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/9365.html?1003822130 | ||
| Jst |
sorry double posted JT | ||
| Jst |
Hoser, You called it. My detent plate is ground in spots on the front side. I'm sure it's hitting the clutch basket. I put the bike back together with the original detent plate and took it for a run around the block. Now I get first, neutral and second only. I'd be pissed if it weren't for the fact that I'm getting pretty good at pulling this thing apart. I'm gonna try driving the pins back in before I drop the coin on the Baker. Anyone got any guesses how much it runs? I'm gonna have to wait for the new detent plate and tensioner to come in anyway. Thanks JT | ||
| Hoser |
Further info as per my discussion above: The shift drum has four pins pressed in which are part of the detent / ratchet mechanism , a fifth pin is pressed in to the center of the drum , this is the one that passes through the detent plate and has the groove machined for the retaining clip. I measured a new shift drum , specifically the pin protrusion ( the four small pins ), it was .330". With the detent plate clipped into position with its retainer , a distance of .240" was measured between the end of the shift drum and the inboard face of the detent plate. The four pins hold the detent plate in it's correct position , unless they move , they are pressed in tightly but it is possible for them to move out of position , and mess with shifting quality. I doubt you will find this information / mesurement in any service manual so write it down for future reference. | ||
| Jmartz |
When I first opened my primary (can't remember the reason) I noticed that several of the pins were not not fully seated and protruded a various lengths. This caused the detent plate to be at an angle. Interestingly it had little effect on anything, although it had signs of odd wear. What I've also observed is the shift arm makes contact with the starter ring on the clutch basket since it has a loose and wobbly fit. Again there is adverse effect on this one either | ||
| Hoser |
Jose: You have heard the term "tolerance stack up" before , in many cases poor shifting can be caused by several parts , none of which are not quite worn out , just "loose fitting". It's common to see the arm you mentioned with marks on it from making contact with the ring gear on the back of the clutch hub , you have no doubt observed how little clearance exists between those parts. Sportster transmissions are much like a time bomb , although vastly improved over the old ironhead days this is one of the contributing factors behind the sportsters poor reputation , you know and have heard it before the " girls bike" , "half a harley", the teasing shit that originated from the AMF years. | ||
| Jmartz |
Hoser: I am quite happy with the new Baker 6. Shifts are smoother and the ratios make for better power distribution. 6th is too high for speeds under 90 though. | ||
| Hoser |
Jose: I'm happy for you too , however the price of those things makes me shudder , I guess I'm ........... (a) Cheap (b) Acting responsibly by not buying a 6 speed ? (c) Have not finished wrecking the two 5 speeds I have now (d) Not convinced I really need one ? | ||
| Jmartz |
I guess sales of those items is not brisk so although the retail price is 2350 they can be had for under 2K if you look around. ASB had one for $1750. You may read the section on transmissions in the KV, I've posted several reports on the unit. While it does function better, its doesn't function better by $2000 and 6th is not really useful under 90 mph with the stock 2ndary gearing. Higher 1st and 2nd optional rations (2.52 vs 2.69 and 1.811 vs 1.92) allow for a lower 2dary w/o affecting the lower gears. | ||
| Blake |
I'd love to be able to cruise down the highway at 80 mph and 3,400 rpm, or even 75 mph and 3,200 rpm. | ||
| Jmartz |
I attended the auto show this past Friday here in Atlanta. I was amazed at the number of vehicles, not necessarily high end, that are now available with 6 speed manual or 5 or 6 speed auto trans. Of particular interest, the BMW mini Cooper, has a 6 speed manual and supercharged 1600 cc motor. $19K... I wonder when HD will offer a 6 in their lineup? | ||
| Buelliedan |
Are there any aftermarket detent plates available and if so are they better than the factory piece?? My detent plate appears to be slightly bent. Like its cupped in the middle. Is this normal? | ||
| Henrik |
Dan: Buell came out with a slightly different detent plate in 2000. Some have had good luck with them. Others - maybe becaue of stacked tolerances - have not. Also, Baker sells a detent plate with their Smooth Shift kit. The Baker shift drum differs from stock in that it takes a bolt to hold the plate in place rather than the stock clip arrangement. You might be able to drill up the hole in the Baker to make it fit a stock drum.  Detent plates in order L to R: old style, Baker, Y2K. Notice that the Baker and old style detent plate are almost identical.  Here you have the old style plate on the left. To the right is the Y2K on top of the Baker. Henrik | ||
| Buelliedan |
My bad plate is the new one(2000 X1) So it sounds like I should maybe try to find an older style HD detent plate if possible then? Reading through the archives here I realize I need to hammer my pins back in as well, my plate sat at a bad angle. Might have to get the smoothe shift kei next if that doesn't work. How much does that kit run about? | ||
| Henrik |
From hastily failing memory the Smooth Shift kit runs about $260. Henrik | ||
| Buelliedan |
I think I'll try to fix the stock shifter first. just got off the phone with the local dealer. The detent plate only costs $3.25!!! I couldn't believe it when he told me. I was expecting it to be around $30 just like everything else. Hell, I paid $25 for a damn air cleaner standoff!! | ||
| Bobpaul |
Can you guys tell me what could be causing stiff shifting on my 2000 M2? I just had the primary cover off to seal up a weep at the alternator wire feedthrough and to check the crank nut for tightness. I installed the new tensioner last year. It all went together ok, but it's very difficult to shift between gears. All the gears seem about the same. It doesn't grind or clunk when it changes gears, it just takes a lot of force. What could it be? | ||
| Blake |
Could be that either your clutch needs adjusted or you have overfilled the tranny/primary. | ||
| Bobpaul |
I readjusted the clutch using the 1/4 turn method described in the service manual and it's still the same. As far as fluid level goes I just poured the whole container in like I've done the last 6 times. So, last night I pulled the primary cover off again figuring I'll give a go to the linkage adjustment and to look for bent pins on the shift drum. Tried to get the primary drive nut off the crankshaft. That SOB is really tight. I'm using one of those plastic stepped tools that gets jammed between the chain and the sprocket teeth. Supposed to anyway... at around 150 ft-lb the damned thing comes flying out like a bullet. Maybe the only answer is an impact wrench? I'm not too happy about using an impact wrench on the end of my crankshft. How do you guys budge this nut? | ||
| Hans |
Boppaul : "How do you guys budge this nut?" Turning clockwise.  Hans | ||
| Bobpaul |
Holy %$@* batman, I thought the crankshft has a right-hand thread on it. I know the clutch is LH thread! | ||
| Peter |
Bobpaul, It is a RH thread, but is done up to around 200 ft-lb. I use a piece of aluminium plate about 3/8" thick and jam it between the front and rear sprockets. Then I swing on it with a 2 foot breaker bar. Then if that doesn't work, I break out the rattle gun. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Jamming a towel (that the Wife does not know about) into the primary chain will usually do the trick as well, but the aluminum block works better. I made one out of some aluminum scrap and a vise. | ||
| Hans |
By Iove Bobpaul, I hope you had no bad results of setting you on the wrong foot. The picture of Henrik`s damaged left handed thread of the mainshaft (of the clutch, NOT the crank) was burned into my braincells. It would have been better if the text under the picture had been saved also: RTFM (read the f.ck.ng manual) Maybe I can be of real help: Likely you have the old detent plate.  Being this far, you can make sure to have the right sprocket nut.  Hans | ||
| Bobpaul |
I got it, I got it! Eeeeehaaa!  Thanks for the idea Peter & Reepicheap, I used a piece of aluminum jammed between the sprockets and a pipe over my breaker bar. Sorry I wasted so much time with the mini-stairs (or hamster stairs as some call it). Hans, after reading your message I checked the manual again before working on the bike so do damage was done! I've already got a new nut to go on the crank sprocket... thanks for the info. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Tranny Gurus.. Help! I can't believe how easy it is to get the tranny out of a tuber. Holy Smokes! I had more grief trying to get a tire changed then I did pulling the tranny. This thing rocks! The problem I am trying to address is the typical "2nd and one half gear", where you go into second at high revs, drop the clutch and give it gas, and a half second after the power starts it feels like the belt just jumped a notch over the sprocket, but then it catches solid and stays solid until the next shift. I got to the point where when I went into second, I would drop the clutch, and goose the throttle a little to get 2nd to "seat", then let loose. Made those deep leaned turns where second "hops" a lot less exciting. It only ever did it in second, and only on an upshift from 1-2, and only at a shift at high rpms. Never on a downshift, never at low RPMS. It has progressively gotten worse. So here are some shots of the gears. Can some experts tell me which ones they think ought to be replaced? I have an idea, but I would like some independent opinions. One  Two  Three  Four  Five  Six  Seven  Finally, if anyone has stuck with me this long, I noticed some hardened grease deposits and light pitting on the end of one shaft. Does this just need cleaning, or is it an indication I have a bearing over there I need to replace?  Thanks in advance! Please let me know which of the above pictures shows a worn out gear, and if you think both the male and female part need to be replaced. As I look at them, the male parts all much worse then the female parts they mate with. Bill |
