| Author | Message | ||
     Ft_bstrd |
That'll help in the request for "spotting" a displacement advantage Why all those qualifiers? We are talking CC's here. | ||
| Bott |
right. Same "advantaged" arrow the others ride, just that they are too old to be competitive. Have a nice day. I'm off to set the dvr for some great racing Saturday night. | ||
| Slaughter |
In DMG/AMA racing there ARE qualifiers - not JUST displacement - it is the BIKE as well as the allowable components. You can get a bike DQ'd for changing valve seats and guides. Changing suspension (in some cases, not in others) - all that comes into play. Nobody specified the mystery single. In order to anwer the question, there are a TON of questions that have to be first answered - it aint just displacement. Otherwise the answer is exactly ELEVENTY-BILLION cc (with an allowable 1mm overbore). | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Some say Hacking has to race his balls off to keep up with Slick. I say; Isn't riding your balls off what racing is all about?? I've watched most of the AMA races this year. I've raced a Buell. I've felt the frustration of being faster in the corner and slower in the straight. I don't see Slick sandbagging, or not racing as hard as anyone else on the track. If anything, I see him racing that much harder to get around or keep in front of faster guys in the corners. | ||
| Svh |
Eslick has won in AMA Supermoto before but has always been on second rate teams in the road racing. This is his first team with the budget to support winning. Hope next year they are on the 1125RR's in Superbike. (Message edited by svh on August 13, 2009) | ||
| Bads1 |
Unless rules change I see Eslick staying where hes at. Cory West and Knapp in Superbike. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
In DMG/AMA racing there ARE qualifiers - not JUST displacement - it is the BIKE as well as the allowable components. You can get a bike DQ'd for changing valve seats and guides. Changing suspension (in some cases, not in others) - all that comes into play. Nobody specified the mystery single. In order to anwer the question, there are a TON of questions that have to be first answered - it aint just displacement. Otherwise the answer is exactly ELEVENTY-BILLION cc (with an allowable 1mm overbore). Isn't that the point, though. Nearly ALL the arguments boil down to "Buell racing against the 600 with nearly twice the displacement." Conversely, no one would accept that a 600cc single should be able to run with IL4 600s. | ||
| Danger_dave |
That was the first tweet I've ever read. Confirmed I haven't missed much hey. | ||
| Boltrider |
A lot of you guys know more about racing than me. I've only been following it since I bought my Buell last year. What I do know is that motorcycle road racing is a sport, and a taxing one at that. The guys on those bikes are athletes, so I think we can compare them (Eslick) with athletes of other sports. In these other sports (football, baseball, whatever), some athletes are a genius right out of the box, while others take a few years to really get going. They all have their own unique development curve Eslick is right at that age where a lot of athletes have what the talking heads refer to as a "breakout" season. So it sucks to hear that Eslick's breakout season is being overshadowed by charges of unfairness. I guess if given the chance, Hacking or Cardenas could slide the ass-end of a Buell around a corner better than Eslick can. Very hard to believe, especially after seeing Danny smoke the shit out of that tire at Topeka. Here's to hoping that Eslick stays on the Buell and is in the chase for the next 10 years.  | ||
| Blake |
>>>Bott, put Eslick on a Yamaha 600, is he winning? He's never won an AMA race before he saddled up on a Buellhas he?? Now he's won 4 or 5 races in his first year (and the 1125rs first year)? Sure looks like a good arrow for that indian. How many privateers won races back in the old AMA days during Slick's rookie year and following? ZERO? How many outperformed Slick on the track? I'd say that number is about the same, about near zero. He darn near won Daytona as a privateer. He'd never had a factory ride in the previous era yet he did finish on the podium multiple times. I predict great things for the man. There is no mistaking a great talent. He's got it, Ben Spies style. Y'all recall Ben Spies time racing in Supersport? How many races did he win? Zero you say? (Message edited by blake on August 13, 2009) | ||
| Blake |
Prior to this season, when was the last time anyone on a Suzuki won an AMA 600 Supersport race? Danny Eslick's Career Highlights: Neither Hacking nor anyone else in the Supersport paddock would have done much if any better on the same bike and with the same team. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
 Everybody in the DSB class knew the rules before they came to play. It's a formula class, and they can change the formula during the season. So if you like IL4 competition go watch it. But If the last lap lead swapping 3 times and our guy ending up 3rd is exciting to you, that's what this class is all about. ... Go DSB / Buell Racing. ... Terry | ||
| Blake |
AMA Supersport and FX Race winners in the late pre-DMG era... 2005 AMA Supersport Race Winners: T. Hayden (Factory Kawasaki) R. Hayden (Factory Kawasaki) J. DiSalvo (Factory Yamaha) J. Hacking (Factory Yamaha) No Suzuki won an AMA SS race in 2005, this despite the fact that Ben Spies contested every race on his factory Suzuki GSXR600. His best finish was 4th (twice). 2005 AMA Formula Xtreme Winners: M. DuHamel (Factory Honda) J. Zemke (Factory Honda) No Suzuki won a race. Danny Eslick finished 4th in three FX races on his lowly privateer Suzuki, and he was the leading privateer in the championship finishing 3rd behind only the factory Honda duo of DuHamel and Zemke. 2006 AMA Supersport Winners: J. Hacking (Factory Yamaha) R. Hayden (Factory Kawasaki) No Suzuki won an AMA SS race in 2006. Note: Michael Barnes podiumed FIVE (5) times on his privateer Suzuki. Yeah, he's a slow old man.  If not for some very bad luck in the last race of the season, a DNF, Danny Eslick would very likely have finished in 3rd place as the leading privateer in the championship, just ahead of Barney. 2006 AMA Formula Xtreme Winners: J. Hayes (Factory Honda) E. Bostrom (Factory Yamaha) J. Disalvo (Factory Yamah) J. Zemki (Factory Honda) No Suzuki won any AMA FX race in 2006. In round 4, Danny Eslick finished 3rd, beat Josh Hayes for the last spot on the podium. 2007 AMA Supersport Winners: R. Hayden (Factory Kawasaki) J. Hacking (Factory Kawasaki) J. Hayes (Factory Honda) J. Herrin (Factory Yamaha) No Suzuki won a single AMA SS race in 2007. 2007 AMA Formula Xtreme Winners: J. Hayes (Factory Honda) S. Rapp (Factory Kawasaki) A. Gobert (Factory Honda) No Suzuki won any AMA FX race in 2007. Based on the above research, you know, actual FACTS, it appears as though Danny Eslick was absolutely one of the most skilled riders in the paddock. He was certainly one of the most successful on a Suzuki in his time on the GSXR600 and that on a third tier privateer team. But hey, don't let any facts get in the way of your petty little campaign to belittle Danny Eslick and make Buell out to be a cheater bike. | ||
| Blake |
The above certainly puts to shame any idiotic claim that Danny on a factory bike couldn't compete with Hacking or anyone. He was competing with them on a privateer POS Suzuki, a bike that even in full factory dress hadn't won a single AMA SS or FX race since--yes, I found it--Ben Spies managed to win one solitary race on his factory Suzuki GSXR600 back in 2004. Ben finished 4th in the AMA SS championship that year. Clarification, Blake Young won the last two races of the 2008 AMA SS season on his factory Suzuki 600. (Message edited by blake on August 13, 2009) | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Good stuff Blake. | ||
| Blake |
Thanks amigo. I really despise armchair athletes trying to knock a good man down. WTF is wrong with people? Buell enthusiasts? "Slick sucks and Barney and Shawn sucks worse"? UNBELIEVABLE! ARROGANT JACKASSES! | ||
| Diablobrian |
There are more people expressing opinions than people that have gone out and raced motorcycles. You cannot fall into the trap of arguing minutia with the arm chair expert. Just MHO after getting out and actually crewing for a racer that contested a national race series, on first a suzuki then a Buell. We are also hearing complaints from people that have never ridden the 1125r about it's unfair advantage. They should know better, but judging a machine based on displacement only is akin to choosing what car you'll buy based on the brand of air cleaner. Should they allow corvettes to compete against camaros just because the engine displaces the same? Should lotuses be racing against honda civics and accords on the same basis? Food for thought. These arguments have been raging since 2003 when the XB was classified for racing purposes as a lightweight. Remember the chicken little hysteria then about it unbalancing the class? The sv650 is still winning races, as is the 650 Kawi. (Message edited by diablobrian on August 14, 2009) | ||
| 20xb12s04 |
From the Speed article by Chris Martin...
Crashing while battling for victory? What's their excuse now? http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=37708 | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
He was thinking about Eslick. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
You can't expect to hold down a championship lead if you're not running at the end of the race, or if you take the checkered flag with road rash and a torn up bike. Blaming Eslick for someone elses ability to be there at the end of the race is idiotic. Martins issue is/was a simple one--the pressure of the title got to him. Happens to many young racers and athletes the first go 'round. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Their position demonstrates their bias. Cardenas wouldn't have crashed if he weren't trying to keep up with a LESSER rider on an unfair bike. It's bullshit. I'm surprised they haven't blamed EVERY wreck this year on Buell simply being on the grid (Harley dripping oil all over the track). Buell derangement syndrome. | ||
| Elfrippo |
In the Barber dyno tests there was one bike that was stronger than the competition. It's not realistic to think that it was a 600cc bike. The 600s are all very close. There's no doubt in my mind that the Buell had the best power-to-weight ratio (by far). I read in a motorcycle mag (Sportrider?) that the Buell was over 150hp and the best 600s were at 125hp. I have no reason to doubt that. The numbers are probably easily attained by a good journalist. I find it funny that some people think it's okay for the Buell to be quicker in acceleration since it is slower in the corners. Don't you realize that a straight line advantage is much better to have than a cornering advantage? The 600 riders have to take great risks and ride their asses off to pass Eslick in the curves, and he can sit there confident in his bikes' ability to blow by them on the next long straight. Kind of like Casey Stoners advantage over Valentino Rossi back in 2007. It was not fun watching Rossi work like hell and pass Stoner in the corners just to see Stoner pass him on the next straight. The difference is that Ducati earned that advantage by building a better 800cc engine than their competitors. Even if I dislike Ducati I have to give them credit. Not so much with Buell. (Message edited by Elfrippo on August 14, 2009) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
eLF,you really need to click back a page or so in this thread and read what anony posted as far as the differences between the V2/IL4 engines. Oh, and I have not read and official AMA releases about the dyno tets...only hearsay and speculation from supposed attendees. | ||
| Crusty |
Then, if the 600 riders have superior cornering bikes and skills, why was Eslick passing them in the corners? | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Why would the 600's be better cornering than the 1125R? The 1125R (54.1) has a shorter wheelbase than the Suzuki GSX-R600 (55.1) and the Yamaha R6 (54.3). | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Cuz they're lighter, I guess. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Fresno, which part of anony's post did you find useful? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
What's the corner to weight ratio. That's what matters. Power to weight is great as long as you are going in a straight line, but that isn't what we're talking about. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Ft_bstrd Posted on Friday, August 14, 2009 - 05:58 pm: What's the corner to weight ratio. That's what matters. Power to weight is great as long as you are going in a straight line, but that isn't what we're talking about. huh? I'm officially confused. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
So I guess Buell doesn't really "Own the Corners"? |
