| Author | Message | ||
     Buellinachinashop |
If global warming means that all the bikinis worn in Brazil will make their way up here to Milwaukee, I'm all for killing off some dinosaurs. | ||
| P_squared |
Low pH stresses calcifying organisms primarily by making it harder for them to obtain sufficient carbonate to deposit skeletons. So low pH stresses them, potentially preventing calcification? And how do you lower the pH? Add carbon dioxide. Some problems I see with this line of reasoning in regards to blaming anthropogenic carbon dioxide from your reefkeeping link: 1. A pH value of about 7.4-7.6 is required for reefs to begin to start collapsing, e.g. a negative net calcification. We’re above 8.0 currently. 2. Current insights indicate that corals first appeared during the Permian era. Hermatypic, or reef-building corals are believed to have arisen during the Triassic period. I believe both periods have a higher level of carbon dioxide than the current ~350 ppm. 3. It appears that solar winds have a greater input to carbon dioxide than anthropogenic input. (source: http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/tempCO2_vs_solwind.html)  4. It appears that attempting to equate manmade influence as the cause is misguided based on the amount. (source: http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_contrib.html)  Used to be republicans were the party of natural conservancy. I’m all for natural conservancy. I grew up in the country, farming, ranching & hunting. I’m just a bit skeptical of some of the “CRISIS!!! EMERGENCY!!! GLOOM & DOOM!!!” type of claims being made in an effort to gain power & money. I hope you can understand & respect that. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
"What is interesting is the Northwest passage has usually been frozen solid year round." That is inaccurate. Let me clarify my statement. The Northwest passage has been frozen for vessels that are NOT ice strengthened. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/09/07 0917-northwest-passage.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2006/11/04/AR2006110401173.html http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-04-03-nwpa ssage-debate_x.htm http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/15/tech/mai n3263931.shtml I could go on. But the bottom line is the fact a fiberglass yacht is able to transit through the NW Passage is a bit concerning... | ||
| Sifo |
The NW passage was first sailed over 100 years ago. During that time period there was far less arctic ice than we have come to call "normal". There are historical records going further back in time showing that this is cyclical in nature. As Greenland is going through it's "unprecedented melting" we are seeing abandoned Viking settlements being exposed. These areas were livable prior to the little ice age and are just now being uncovered again. Nothing all that unusual if you really look at history. | ||
| P_squared |
But the bottom line is the fact a fiberglass yacht is able to transit through the NW Passage is a bit concerning... Maybe. Maybe not. If it's PROVEN to be caused by human action, then I'd worry. If it's cyclic, which it appears to be, then I'm not as worried about it. | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
If it's PROVEN to be caused by human action, then I'd worry. If it's cyclic, which it appears to be, then I'm not as worried about it. I am not here to debate whether it is man made or not. What I am saying it is happening. So much of modern human existence is dependent on things staying in balance. Be it water levels, rain fall totals, coastal shorelines, or extreme weather patterns. Last thing I want be on the hook for is the catastrophic insurance losses when coastal communities become inundated with rising water levels. I have a feeling raising up Manhattan up 10+Ft. is not going to be cheap... | ||
| Sifo |
But sea levels have been rising for far longer that we have had alleged AGW. The nut jobs know this, they just use it to their favor to create fear. | ||
| P_squared |
So much of modern human existence is dependent on things staying in balance. Who's "balance"? The "balance" that Mr. Gore & his ilk propose, or the balance the planet itself imposes? If the changes are cyclic, which they very strongly appear to be, how do you propose to "balance" those changes? We can't stop hurricanes from slamming into densely populated areas. We can't stop tsunamis from washing over towns after earthquakes. How do you propose to "balance" our environment when we can't stop the force of nature or the weather? | ||
| Corporatemonkey |
Who's "balance"? The "balance" that Mr. Gore & his ilk propose, or the balance the planet itself imposes? If the changes are cyclic, which they very strongly appear to be, how do you propose to "balance" those changes? Balance we have created with our infrastructure. I do not have a solution on how to balance anything. What I am saying is we need to address global warming/climate change/what ever you want to call it as a national security issue. Between a heavy disaster recovery bill, ala Katrina, or Andrew. To the cost of the drought in the the SW, Texas, and parts of the SE. Wildfires out west The pine beetle in Colorado That only counts some of the issues in the US. What about the rest of the globe? China and their "little flood event" Australia and their epic drought All of these issues will come back to haunt us financially. If you look at the insurance industry (worldwide) governments always end up being the payer of last resort. That in itself is a lose lose scenario. On one hand we can help, and end up bankrupting the system. Or we can let people twist in the wind, and that would end up like Katrina magnitudes bigger. I don't think anyone here wants to see that again. | ||
| Xl1200r |
The global temperature has been rising in general since the last major ice age. History tells us that we are due for the next ice age very shortly in geological terms. Who are we kidding with this BS? Actually, hisotically, we're just coming OUT of an ice age, and temps SHOULD be RISING. Some good, new info in here I'm learning. Good stuff. | ||
| Blake |
Now we have some excellent debate going. Unfortunately, it's the same excellent debate that we've been repeating. Must be a cyclic phenomenon.  | ||
| P_squared |
What I am saying is we need to address global warming/climate change/what ever you want to call it as a national security issue. Really? Who's been using their Jedi mind tricks on you? The saying of "$h!t happens" is applicable here. There will ALWAYS be national disasters. There will ALWAYS be droughts, floods, hurricanes, volcanoes, etc., etc. How can you "control" or "balance" them? You CAN'T. The ruse of attempting to tie "climate change" to National Security is just that, a ruse. The goal is to consolidate power & wealth into the hands of the "few". Don't believe me? Then please explain to me how Gore became the poster boy for Global Warming/Climate Change? The blustering buffoon has no degree in any applicable field relating to the topic, but yet gets a Nobel prize, says the science is settled (meaning don't bring up any REAL "inconvenient truths") and stands to be a BILLIONAIRE via his carbon trading ventures. What p!$$e$ me off the most about this kind of crap is that I grew up as a conservationist. Try managing a farm or a herd of cattle sometime. You learn REAL quick what you can & can't do. If you don't take care of your land, you're out of a livelihood. Now compare that to some snob elitist who wouldn't know the difference between silt & loam if you gave them a handful of each. Should we recycle? Absolutely Should we indiscriminately dispose of items that are exceedingly harmful to the environment? Absolutely not Should we cut our own freakin throats in the name of a religion that's soul purpose is to gain power & money for those at the top? No EFFIN WAY. | ||
| Gsilvernale |
What's the difference between silt and loam? What about silty loam? From wikipedia: Different proportions of sand, silt, and clay give rise to types of loam soils: sandy loam, silty loam, clay loam, sandy clay loam, silty clay loam, and loam. (Message edited by gsilvernale on August 13, 2009) | ||
| Oldog |
Unlike the internet Global Warming was invented by Al Gore... Spidy thanks for the laugh!} | ||
| Diablobrian |
Anyone else remember all of the "experts" telling us (in the 70s) that the sky was falling due to global Cooling? Since then, less than an eye blink in geological terms, they have reversed themselves and begun the global warming hysteria. We need more data! Humans did not cause the last ice age or the following warming cycle. Remember the ozone hole scare where the earth was going to burn up? Oops! that is cyclical too. Both events are connected to sun and orbital cycles is a fairly recent theory IIRC We don't have enough accurate data to trully understand how all of this works. Once again modern man and modern science haven't been around long enough to establish what is or isn't normal cyclical change. Just like the guys on the corner playing "three card monte" you have to look a little deeper for whats really going on here before choosing what is usually an emotional choice. I suggest you follow the money. Who is profiting? who loses? does it match the players own self interests? Then consider whether you really want to play. I'm not questioning the sincerity of the global warming folks, just asking that they back up and smell Al Gore's carbon footprint and see if it passes muster. | ||
| Hexangler |
Here's some more, in TODAY'S news: "It seems like everywhere we look in Alaska's coastal oceans, we see signs of increased ocean acidification," said Mathis. Often referred to as the "sister problem to climate change," ocean acidification is a term to describe increasing acidity in the world's oceans. The ocean absorbs carbon dioxide from the air. As the ocean absorbs more carbon dioxide, seawater becomes more acidic. Scientists estimate that the ocean is 25 percent more acidic today than it was 300 years ago. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/09081 3163158.htm | ||
| Hexangler |
Don't tell me how to grow plants...Sheesh, touchy, touchy, only tryin' to help... KINDA SOUNDED LIKE YOU NEEDED SOME | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Global warming is the "spontaneous generation" of our latest generation. NOTHING we, as humans, do on our planet has anywhere NEAR the impact of solar activity and the varying intensity of solar output. Strange that as we are seeing global cooling temperatures due to minimal solar activity, MARS is also seeing cooling temperatures due to minimal solar activity. Global warming is a scam to separate you from your money. The rubes will separate from their cash voluntarily. The rest of us will be forced to transfer our cash. The longer the debate continues, the weaker the proponents of global warming's argument becomes. Cap and Tax can't die soon enough. | ||
| P_squared |
What's the difference between silt and loam? What about silty loam? From wikipedia: Different proportions of sand, silt, and clay give rise to types of loam soils: sandy loam, silty loam, clay loam, sandy clay loam, silty clay loam, and loam. You answered your own question. Silt: A sedimentary material consisting of very fine particles intermediate in size between sand and clay. Loam: Soil composed of a mixture of sand, clay, silt, and organic matter. Silt Loam: A soil consisting of silt, sand, and clay with the majority of the particles in the silt category. The "normal" mixture for "plain loam" is 40% sand, 40% silt & 20% clay. Silt loam typicaly contains ~80% silt with the remaining ~20% of its composition being made up of sand & clay. I'll warn you now, I grew up at my mom's office when she worked at the SCS, now known as the NRCS. I knows my dirt!  | ||
| Kyrocket |
Kentucky never broke 90 degrees all of July, that hasn't happened since the 70's, and they're trying to tell me we're getting warmer. What a crock. Another thing I don't get is when the weather man comes on with all his facts and figures I've been noticing the record high is usually back in the 40's or 50's. Explain that. ...and one more thing, I thought a bunch of motorcycle enthusiasts would be all for global warming. I've been thinking about letting my car run all night if I knew I could ride through January.  | ||
| Hexangler |
This was an interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_sequestration At the very bottom . . . Ocean acid neutralisation Adding crushed limestone[58] or volcanic rock[59] to oceans to restore the solubility pump, which naturally tends to remove excess CO2 from the atmosphere. This technique can give 0.46W/m2 of globally-averaged negative forcing,[12] which is sufficient to reverse the warming effect of around a third of current levels of anthropogenic CO2 emissions. Various other scientists have explored this technique, and suggested a variety of different bases which may be added to the ocean. (Message edited by hexangler on August 14, 2009) | ||
| P_squared |
Hex, can I ask why you seem to be hung up on anthropogenic CO2 emissions as the "root cause"? It is about 0.28% of the total contribution to the Greenhouse effect if water vapor is taken into account. About 5.53%, if not. http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data. html A more thorough debunking of anthropogenic CO2 being the "root cause" of climate change:http://bobtisdale.blogspot.com/2009/01/reproducing -global-temperature.html A nice pic showing that big, yellow orb in the sky having a measurable effect on temperature & CO2: http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/tempCO2_vs_solwi nd.html I'd be leery of advocating adding limestone or volcanic rock to the oceans when it looks like the vocal majority can't even prove the cause. It's that whole unintended consequences thing that makes me leery. Hope you'll understand. | ||
| Hexangler |
GeoScience will lead to GeoEngineering as long as significant "need" is realized. If the fisheries near Alaska are realized to benefit from the addition of other anthropogenic additives, will you still question the motivation? Prosperity is THE goal is it not? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The problem is profit from junk science without the benefit of benefit. | ||
| P_squared |
Prosperity is THE goal is it not? Not for me. I'm more along the lines of "Do no harm." I've seen too many cases of "well intentioned conservation" cause catastrophe, thus my personal reason for being leery of introducing a manmade "cure" for a malady that looks to not be caused by us. Interesting case study of "well intentioned conservation" gone bad is Yellowstone. I'd like it if we didn't repeat the lessons learned there on a much wider scale in regards to "managing" the natural environment. | ||
| Rick_a |
It's all a scare tactic to get money into alternative energies in order to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. That's my theory  | ||
| Limitedx1 |
i think they just like their faces on tv, and especially if they think they are talking about something that the people agree with. im sure they dont mind handout from green peace organizations either.... | ||
| Hexangler |
And another problem is war profiteering...and the monopolization of business sectors. We could talk at lengths about humankind's shortcomings, specially when resources are involved. I think we can survive our own waste byproducts if we put our minds to it. And the time to start thinking about it is now. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I've seen too many cases of "well intentioned conservation" cause catastrophe Just look at the BLM's management of forests to see what happens when there is a "no cut" policy on trees or underbrush. Nature takes it's course, and burns that shit to the ground. | ||
| Hexangler |
Nothing wrong with Green Peace. |
