| Author | Message | ||
     Lemonchili_x1 |
Has the XB12 engine had any major updates since it was introduced? I know the DFI has changed, and a few other things, but there haven't been any changes to the heads/pistons/cams/exhaust etc, and I think Buell still quote the same horsepower as when it was released for 2004. In the meantime Ducati and BMW have released updated air cooled twins... Do you think Buell will update the XB powerplant? | ||
| Froggy |
The XB engine was updated in for 2008MY. Still puts out the same numbers but does have new pistons. | ||
| Hughlysses |
...and crankshaft and oiling system. | ||
| Patches |
Air-cooled 45 Degree V-Twin, Valve Train Layout Design dating back to 1929. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson_Sport ster They will probably Cube it too seeing how it doesn't quite fit there Water-cooled, High Revving Overhead Cam Super-Bike way of thinking. Is any of them Safe from the "Cube" Crusher? Disenfranchised Buell Blast Owner | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
Yeah... but those Overhead Cam Japanese valve trains are soooo 1960's | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
ok even though there was 45 degree v twin in 1929 does not mean it has any thing in common with the xb engine other than those few things. i am very sure id did not put out the horse power that the buell engine is. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Simply put, no. Its coming to an end. Soon. | ||
| Spiderman |
Air-cooled 45 Degree V-Twin, Valve Train Layout Design dating back to 1929. The whole internal combustion engine is soooo 1800's... | ||
| Spike |
The XB series got a new transmission and oil pump drive gear in 2006, and for 2008 we get a completely revised oiling system along with a larger crankpin that allowed a higher redline (7100rpm). There were also changes to the fuel injection system throughout the years including DDFI3 in 2008 and now dual O2 sensors for 2010. I've been hoping for some significant upgrades for quite a while. The Helicon is a great engine, but I prefer air-cooled engines for their simplicity and character. I really thought we'd see some of the XBRR tricks trickle-down to the XB line and we'd see an XB engine with different architecture. If the XBRR managed to spin to 8800rpm and make 150hp, it seems like it would be reasonable to build a street version of that motor that would rev to ~8000rpm and offer ~120hp. Even if it only offered modest gains in power, having a lighter flywheel and more RPM to play with would make the engine more fun on spirited rides. It's hard not to be a bit disappointed. I bought my XB12R in 2003. Although the current engine has some improvements, for 2010 Buell is offering essentially the same heavy flywheeled ~90rwhp engine. | ||
| Ratbuell |
The XB engine *did* get trickledown parts from the RR engine - the oiling system, crank trigger, larger crankpin, etc. What they kept out of the street engines (wisely) was the lifespan measured in laps/weeks instead of years, and the temperamental power outputs. The only thing I would really like to see in the aircooled motors is a return to trapdoor transmissions. I know the non-door design is stronger...but is it overkill-strong? Or required-strong? | ||
| Hughlysses |
It seems like Buell is already pushing the limit on what can be built on the same production line as the Sportster engines. I'd bet that's the limit to what they can do at present. | ||
| Patches |
Sportster motorcycles are powered by 45 degree V-twin engines in which both connecting rods share a common crank pin. The Sportster and the 45" W Models 1929 side-valve motors have four separate cams, sporting one lobe per cam. This is developed from the earlier (1929) 45" W model, but with the revised engine and new 4-speed transmission contained in the same castings as would become the Sportster. The engine was mounted directly to the frame from 1957 through the 2003 model year. While this system allows the bike to be somewhat lighter with more precise handling, it also transmits engine vibration directly to the rider. Sportsters released in 2004 and later use rubber isolation mounts and tie links to limit engine movement to a single plane, which greatly reduces vibration felt by the rider. Buell motorcycles built with variants of the Sportster engine have used a rubber mount system since 1987. The XB Engine is a variants of the Sportster engine. Other than Cases & Head Design it is just a Factory Hot Rod Sportster Engine (Different Specifications) that evolved from the Side Valve 45" W model of 1929. Just my Opinion The Blast Engine the same as the XB Engine Minus One Cylinder. Disenfranchised Buell Blast Owner | ||
| Jcbikes |
EPA is the controlling problem. I think they are close to the limit that they can do to the engine(air cooled) and being able to keep it at the EPA future standards. That is a common myth. It couldn't be further from the truth. There is NOTHING inherent in an air-cooled engine that prevents it from meeting strict emissions standards. It is the liquid cooled machines that require catalytic converters in order to meet current emissions standards. The Buell air-cooled engines do not. The Buell air-cooled engines are also much more efficient. There is no 600cc IL4 with comparable power that can get close to the fuel efficiency of the Buell air-cooled models. So, there you go.  Cool eh?  Blake If they came out with a 6 speed tranny, I might upgrade, otherwise, my 2004 with 27,000 miles is running better than ever. (Message edited by blake on August 14, 2009) | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Update, what's that mean to you? Our shop sees lots of different Buells everything from early pre H-D RSS to 09's. There have been continual changes from heads, crank, cases, injection, throttle body, oil and breathing system.There is now more Buell stuff in a Sporster, than there is Sporster stuff in a Buell. So what's to update, water cooling, more HP/TQ, almost anything like that becomes a new engine. The RR was new, but race retro using case deck height to move the top of the V higher allowing different heads. That idea is present in the XR750 race motors. So new design, new motor, new bike = 1125. Maybe a super single, 1198 super bike, or even a new smaller middle weight engine. Terry - www.jtsperformance.com | ||
| Al_lighton |
What brought me to Buell in 1999 was the simplicity of the design, with an engine that had "enough" power in a sporting chassis. The XB platform in 03, and the significant changes in 2008, did not lose those attributes, and it still appeals to me now for the same reasons it did then. The 1125 platform in cool. I have one. It's fast, its fun. But as a day to day ride, I still prefer the air cooled engine. The air cooled design really doesn't need more power to serve it's intended function, especially now that there is an option in the 1125 series for folks that absolutely need more power. For me, on the street, I rarely use the power I have, so I really don't need it to be "improved" to have more power, especially if that means giving up simplicity or reliability. It will be a sad day indeed if the simplicity of the XB design goes away and the only option is water cooled, multi-throttle bodies DOHC designs, just like everyone else builds. And I don't see any reason, EPA, CARB, or otherwise, why it needs to. Ducati still makes their air cooled engine, and it still has lots of fans as well. They CAN coexist in the product line. Al | ||
| Shupe |
<<Sportster motorcycles are powered by 45 degree V-twin engines in which both connecting rods share a common crank pin. The Sportster and the 45" W Models 1929 side-valve motors have four separate cams, sporting one lobe per cam. This is developed from the earlier (1929) 45" W model, but with the revised engine and new 4-speed transmission contained in the same castings as would become the Sportster. Yeah, the XL definitely evolved from the W model. I've seen WL 45's with XL top ends grafted on. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Ok, there were a few more mods than I realised, and I didn't realise/forgot the higher redline. "Although the current engine has some improvements, for 2010 Buell is offering essentially the same heavy flywheeled ~90rwhp engine." ... which isn't much different to my X1, though an XB is significantly lighter. Up until '97 Buell squeezed more hp/lbft out of the engine every year or two. From '97-'02 they got 101hp, then the XB12 in '04 with 103hp. In the meantime the Ducati Monster has grown to 1100, and even BMW have gone from 1100 to 1150 to 1200, plus the high output HP2, and how many updates have H-D's air-cooled twins had in the last few years? I know Buell have been busy with the 1125 development, and it's possible the air-cooled engine will be phased out, or just left as it is for a few more years... But a factory hot rodded XB would be sooooo cool... Maybe 1250, or XBRR bore/stroke and new heads? What's an update to me? Still air-cooled and pushrod, still that same deep intake roar, still that same shake at idle, and 10-20% more hp | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
"They CAN coexist in the product line. " Makes sense to me. The other thing that prompted this line of questioning is that the Blast has had no major hp/torque updates during it's lifetime... | ||
| Spacecapsule1 |
...if people keep buying the xb's, buell will keep making them. unfortunately for us XB fans, i don't think that will happen. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If they retire the aircooled XB motor... I'll be sad. I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for it... especially the XB9 variation. It's magic. But if they do, the'll replace it with some incredibly cool rotax unit that sheds 30 pounds, gains 20 HP, and has twice the service life... and I'll deal with it | ||
| Hexangler |
I'd be interested in a Buell/Rotax middle-weight. While I wait, my 07xb12r at 20K miles is pullin' harder than ever! | ||
| Swordsman |
"EPA is the controlling problem. I think they are close to the limit that they can do to the engine(air cooled) and being able to keep it at the EPA future standards." They haven't even bothered with a catalytic converter yet. I guess that would be a step backwards in terms of power, though. I really, REALLY dig the current XB engine. If they can make me a Rotax with the same level of required maintenance as the air-cooled one, then I'd be willing to change. Until then, I'm K.I.S.S.-ing. ~SM | ||
| Patches |
How about a XB Twin-Cam Big Twin? Erik Buell could solve the problem with the chain drive cam system.  | ||
| Hughlysses |
They haven't even bothered with a catalytic converter yet. I guess that would be a step backwards in terms of power, though. I don't think that's necessarily true. Whatever restriction the cat adds could be recovered with a less restrictive muffler. It might even let them run a richer fuel map as the cat would burn up any residues in the exhaust. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I also very much like the basic arrangement of the XB engine. If it was up to me (and it's certainly not), I'd concentrate on the crankcase arrangement. I'd offset the cylinders slightly and go with a forged, one-piece crank, two conventional connecting rods, and conventional bearing inserts in the rods. I would like to see them play with bore/stroke ratios a little; a streetable short-stroke 1200 might be interesting. I'd also redesign the transmission to tuck it in tightly behind the crank (as on most modern designs like the Helicon) and go to a geared primary. You could probably lose a significant amount of weight that way. | ||
| Swordsman |
"Whatever restriction the cat adds could be recovered with a less restrictive muffler" How does that work? I would think that if the flow was bottlenecked at the cat, it wouldn't matter how much flow you had available behind it...? ~SM | ||
| Xl1200r |
I also very much like the basic arrangement of the XB engine. If it was up to me (and it's certainly not), I'd concentrate on the crankcase arrangement. I'd offset the cylinders slightly and go with a forged, one-piece crank, two conventional connecting rods, and conventional bearing inserts in the rods. I would like to see them play with bore/stroke ratios a little; a streetable short-stroke 1200 might be interesting. I'd also redesign the transmission to tuck it in tightly behind the crank (as on most modern designs like the Helicon) and go to a geared primary. You could probably lose a significant amount of weight that way. So what you want is a completely new engine? Throw in water-cooling and overhead valves and you have an 1125. The single-plane crank keep the vibes in a single plane, so the engine doesn't need all kinds of fancy counterbalance shafts. The long stroke gives the off-the-line torque everyone loves. | ||
| Bads1 |
Simply put, no. Its coming to an end. Soon. John, You couldn't be more wrong. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
We'll see. | ||
| 4cammer |
I am surprised that the 2010 XB line did not incorporate the oil cooled heads of the XR1200 Sportster models. |
