| Author | Message | ||
     Ft_bstrd |
Let us break down the infamous '47 million uninsured.' According to the Census Bureau, of that 47 million, 38 percent of them (18 million) have personal incomes of more than $50,000 a year. This means that they can afford coverage, and choose not to purchase it. Is it just to tax other working people to subsidize health coverage for these 18 million who could afford it for themselves but choose not to purchase it for themselves? Anybody with half a brain towards liberty would have to answer no to the above question. Now that leaves us with 29 million uninsured left to explain. Of that 29 million uninsured, the biggest chunk of them aren't even citizens. Yes, you guessed it, those pesky illegal immigrants that drive up the cost of everything. It seems that our uninsured problem is directly related to the lack of border security! Of course they wouldn't be able to be covered by private health insurers because they do not possess citizenship! Their number is about 12.6 million, or 27 percent of the original '47 million uninsured' number. This could be a higher percentage, because many prominent think tanks place the number of illegal immigrants as high as 20 million, instead of the 12 or 13 million figure. However, for the sake of argument, let us go with the most conservative figure. Subtract the 12.6 number from the remaining 29 million uninsured number, and we come to the next stage of our breakdown, 16.4 million uninsured. Of that remaining 16.4 million uninsured, 8 million are under the age of 18. If the parents of these young ones cannot afford to cover them either on their own family plans or independently, there are public insurance options already available for them but their parents have just not signed them up. So that leaves us with 8.4 million uninsured, a figure less than 3 percent of the American population, and many of these are 18-20 somethings who choose not to purchase health coverage because, well, they think that they won't get sick! Health experts actually refer to this age group as the 'invincibles!' The remainder of this 8.4 million uninsured are low income and could easily be covered by either federal Medicare or state run Medicaid or some charity insurance programs, and they for whatever reason have chosen not to go and get signed up. So we're really going to nationalize 1/7th of the nation's economy for 3% of the population to have healthcare for free? We are going to wreck healthcare for 305,000,000 people in order to provide healthcare for 8,400,000 people? Census Bureau Report | ||
| Just_ziptab |
I grew up happy and poor on the farm. Never had health insurance.Never needed it. All hospital visits were paid for by my folks. It wasn't expensive or a burden to have your tonsils taken out "back in the day". And it wasn't expensive to get the normal childhood shots.......or even to have the local Dr.come out to the farm with his black bag and check me over for my latest clash with the farm animals that got the best of me or for a tetanus shot for stepping on a nail. Lot of parent doctoring going on too for infections from cuts and hangnails or whatever.This was in the 60's. The only reason I got health insurance was because my 4th employer gave it to me..........as that was"the thing" back then to attract employees(1974). I first used it with the first hernia in 1978. I'm thinking the bill was about 10 weeks wages....doable if I didn't have insurance. Today,a hernia without insurance would be a catastrophe. WHY??? That's the question? The answer? The cost of the liberals letting lawsuits get out of hand, freeloaders, greed and people collecting on insurance every damned time their kid has a drippy nose. I guess we ain't tough anymore. | ||
| Brinnutz |
Link to original story please? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
http://community2.myfoxmemphis.com/_Debunking-the- 47-Million-Myth/BLOG/405931/80520.html There are several others. I liked the wording of his summary from the census report best. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
ok, its obvious that none of these jackazzes that are writing the legislation, or trying to ram rod it through, have worked in a healthcare administrative position with any sort of eye on actual figures. (board members dont count they just see the quarterly big numbers) So Billy goes to the doctor with a cut and a sprained knee. The visit occurs on 7/1; it is a non emergency triage visit but he is rushed to the er waiting room by a concerned parent ER visit (depending on locality) 189.00 Bandage, gloves, prophaltics 18 If there is swelling and an Xray is taken 125 for the take 92 for the read Aspirin, and some antiseptic 'perscription' 28 The bill to the insurance company 498 tagged as ER consult and triage. The patient is repsonsible for a 50-75 dollar copay up front depending on their plan. so the 425 bill is off to the insurance company. First draft will deny it electronically, because there was no accident claim with the billing stating that Billy scraped his knee on his own damn property, and nobody else was at fault and that this is not the result of an automobile accident. two weeks later it adjuncts out and becomes a paper claim that is mailed from the milling office to the insurance company (pay a clerk to do this, and the postage and you can see the cost of this visit to the hospital is going up and they have still only collect 50 to 75 two weeks out) Most insurance companies are proud if they are working on a two week turn around, so lil Billy's bill will be lucky to be processed by 8/18. Meanwhile at 30 days the hospital billing staff can and probably has submitted it to collections and are now onto trying to extract payment directly from the patient. (lovely fun, for Billy no big deal, but if its a 20k in patient stay due immediately, well life gets hellish) Billies bill finally hits a claims adjuster, looks at the charges and reduces them accordingly based on actual charges billed an services rendered and adjusts for regional locality payor zones (services in SEattle cost more and are paid at a higher rate than in farm BFE country) The insurance company takes that amount of eligible expenses (really about 365 and pays their portion based on that) they will deduct the patient previous payment of 50, and pay 80% of the remainder meaning a 252 insurance payment. Now by accepting the insurance plan the hospital is supposed to right off the remainder of that bill So who pays the 246? we all do, how do you think aspirin in the ER gets to 8 dollars a pill to begin with? So this goes to the vat of unpaid money that the hospital 'looses' every year. It adds up fast. So what you are seeing is that more and more physicians and clinics are going to first payor guidelines in that, we dont care if you have insurance, it aint are business, you work it out with them, you owe us 498, pay up. And we have some nice collection gentlement that can assist you in that promptly. Now lets say that you take it a notch further, that you dont accept new patients beyond the ones that you currently have a book of business of and know they can and will pay, and you refuse new patients as it cuts into your free time, and your money to return on investment. Welcome to Group Health.... a DR is ASSIGNED a specific number of patients (some of which are high risk, high dollar cases that you know you are going to loose money and effort on and your try and gimp your practice along that way.) Or in managed health care you are actually paid to not take on new patients as they tax the administrative network that supports your billing care reimbursement cycle (you can tell these plans cuz they are all about empowering the patient to 'wellness' or healthy credits) Now what if you are an ineligible, illegal that has no coverage. You are billed directly. But you cant pay, well they still saw you, they still gave you care, and now the hospital has to write off the total amount. Its a mess. I have worked and consulted for 15 large regional hospitals, insurance companies and underwriting agencies; each is crippled by its own attempt to make the cycle work. none of them have it figured out. its a ponzi shell game at best. And dont fool yourself, the medical field is there to make money; just like any other business. Every attempt at trying to regulate, control, ration care creates a new set of perverse acrobatics to get around it. The govt is in over its head, and its gonna be messy. want a hint at how f'd up its gonna be? Look no further than public education. You cant throw enough money down that black hole to make johnny read. Thumbs up their azzes, thumbs up their azzes. National Healthcare; Bring it on, my bank account could use a bail out after this last down turn in the market. | ||
| Patches |
Sonia Sotomayor is sworn in Saturday to the Supreme Court, http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=prnw.20090 806.DC57946&show_article=1&catnum=3 | ||
| Sifo |
it is a non emergency triage visit but he is rushed to the er waiting room by a concerned parent Reminds me of when I has a shoulder separation. I knew I was hurt fairly bad, but also knew it wasn't anything life threatening. I knew I could walk into the local ER and get taken care of no problem, but instead I went to an "urgent care" facility knowing that it would be cheaper for a visit the amounts to an x-ray and a referral to a specialist. My insurance actually tried to refuse the claim stating that I should have gone to the ER. Part of the problem is insurance systems that provide no incentive for the insured to try to control costs. My co-pay was the same at either facility so it made little difference to my personal pocket book. Currently we have chosen to go to a Health Care Savings Plan where I pay a percentage of the Dr. bill with pre-tax money. It makes me think about if I really need to see the Dr. when I have the sniffles because I am putting some of my own money up for these small visits. The plan has caps to protect you if you really get hit with big medical bills (that's what insurance should be for). The premiums for this plan are much lower than the other employer offered option. We are saving a big chunk of change on this plan where we have an incentive to be responsible with our health care costs. Go figure? Sadly this option will likely be taken from us because of the low percentage of people who will take this option. I find it sad that so many people are unwilling to take any responsibility for their own fiscal well being. It really is the death of our country. (Message edited by SIFO on August 07, 2009) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Responsibility is never popular, you cant legislate it, and just cant fight stupid. I will lay odds that this behemouth passes. If it does, I will be moving out east and into some obnoxious regulatory commission that has no clue what they are doing. Too many MBA's not enough actual experience. Marxism works in theory; its in the application that it fails. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Socialized medicine determines that the best insureds are either healthy or dead. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Maybe one option would be to let states try it out. Keep the funding and care confined to that state. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
We,TN, already did. It was (is) a mess and nearly bankrupted the state. Google TennCare. | ||
| Sifo |
HI had fairly disastrous results too. | ||
| Froggy |
At this point in my life, I think I am pretty much next to invincible, or at least unkillable  | ||
| Doz |
I agree with froggy, all he needs is a red suit like the "invincibles" animated movie, that and a BIKE that is also invincible. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Sifo - I have a plan like yours - I pay a $30 copay for checkups and things, but after that I'm responsible for 20% (I think?) of all my bills, up to an out of pocket cap determined by my salary and number of insured (at my income and only covering me, it's less than $3,000). The premium is cheap, and I'm healthy so it costs me very little to feel protected. | ||
| Chellem |
Single person, no kids - High Deductible is the way to go. You're covered for something horrible happening, but your premiums are WAAAY low, and lets face it, men never go to the doctor anyway until something is purple or falling off. Me, on the other hand, woman of childbearing years with two kids, I require a little bit better coverage, because the "standard" of care is an unreal number of prenatal exams and well baby visits which would bankrupt me. And probably will bankrupt the nation. Eventually. According to several articles (and a post on this forum) that sort of plan won't meet the "minimums", and so won't even be available anymore. Classic. ->ChelleM | ||
| Xl1200r |
For me, this "cheapo" plan saves me mucho dinero compared to the big HMO plans that are designed for familes and what not. A bad year for me if I have a stint with my sciatica and I have to go to the chiropractor 6 or 8 times. The HMO plans charge the flat $30 copay for everything, but my plan (they call it a PPO) does 20% for all specialists, and my chriro charges something like $35 for a basic visit, even if I need physical therapy, ultrasound, anything. So I make out. I hope my plan meets the new minimums, or else my health care costs will quite literally triple since all I essentially pay for is premiums. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
There are commercial options available. It would be cheaper and more efficient to create the ability to pay for this coverage via tax credit. Individuals could buy high deductible plans (like you guys have bought) and pay for the small events out of pocket. The concern for the "uninsured" rest with the risk that a large medical event could result in bankruptcy. The high deductible plan could help cover that risk. |
