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Xb984r
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 03:10 pm: | 
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Blake, you stated that you know for a fact that the 600's are putting down 130hp, what is the Buell putting down? |
Maul
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 03:44 pm: |
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http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/ama-checks- powertoweight-ratio-pro-daytona-sportbikes/
I just ran across this web site while looking for H.P. numbers. If you have a weak stomach do not read this. You have been warned. |
Pariah
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 04:16 pm: |
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Look, bottom line is that the Daytona Sportbike class is a mixed class (to open things up a bit), not a spec class, and if the 1125R did have a ridiculous advantage, we'd see Barnes, Knapp, and Higbee taking podiums as well, which they aren't (well, Knapp took one, I think).
(Message edited by pariah on August 07, 2009) |
P_squared
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 04:58 pm: |
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Maul, already saw & read that article previously. The important lines from it:
What is interesting about the report from the AMA is that they never named which bikes were making how much horsepower, thus leaving it a mystery who had the supreme power-to-weight advantage.
Followed shortly thereafter by this gem:
We crunched the numbers to figure out what the likely results are in this report.
Translation = It's a guess.
Maybe they're right. Maybe they aren't. 1 thing I do know is the racing this year in the Daytona class has been pretty darn good.
As for the Buell bashers against the 1125R in that class, if the bike is SO UNFAIR, why is Danny the only 1 "dominating" and not Barnes, Higbee, Sipp or Knapp?
I think DMG is on the right track. I'm willing to keep my mind open. I wish others that were bemoaning the state of AMA Pro Road racing before DMG came along, would do the same. |
Carbonbigfoot
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 05:23 pm: |
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+1
R |
Dynasport
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 05:48 pm: |
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OK, I have no dog in this fight. I have not followed motorcycle racing in the past. I have started watching some of the DSB racing on Speed Channel simply because of the 1125s. My only comment is this. I wish the 1125s had an unfair advantage against the 600s. I wish they blew them off the track. I understand the Ducati 1098s race successfully against liter bikes and I am not happy that the 1125s don't do the same.
Regardless, I am happy they are racing competitively at all. Before the 1125 Buell had nothing competitive that I am aware of in any class.
Oh, and one last thing. I believe I read an article in one of the rags that had 600 and 1000 lap times compared and the 600s were actually faster. I believe it was in Cycle World a few months ago. The article stated the liter bikes were much more satisfying on the street, however, because to get the most out of the 600s you had to flog them constantly.
Finally, the one way I can guarantee the 1125s would blow the tires off any liter bike out there would be to put my fat butt on the liter bike.
Have a nice day. |
Mog
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 06:14 pm: |
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 MAUL, I left a brief note at the comment end of that article.
DMG has it perfectly correct.
My 1125R is tuned purrrfectly also.
Maybe the air that ASS.&RUB test in has too much NOX |
Maul
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 06:42 pm: |
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P Squared and Mog, I am with you 100%. It is my belief that the IL4 rags just can't stand a little competition in their normally dominated world. I am an American and have served my country for 22 years, so yes I want to see an American company win any race they enter. Maybe it is just my simple mind at work here, but I don't understand why an American would be so against Buell being competitive with foreign brands. It is bad enough that they invent reasons why the Buell is winning, but they ignore the fact that only Eslick has put the bike on the top of the podium. It just makes me sad to think that national pride has taken such a nose dive in this country. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 07:21 pm: |
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The stupidity of the magazines publishing this stuff is amazing. Not only do we not know what the power to weight is, but power to weight doesn't remotely tell the story on a roadrace course. There is so much more to a motorcycle than these morons write. I'll list three items and there are many more.
1) Just regarding power to weight, the conclusions of "unfairness" are ridiculous and uneducated. First of all the heavier bike will be at a disadvantage in every area except acceleration. Duh. The power doesn't help going into corners and the extra weight on the identical spec tires hurts braking and in corner speed.
2) Then, the impact of power drops off exponentially with speed when CdA takes over. So a heavy bike with a higher CdA would be slower into and through the corners, quicker once it gets out of the corners but then drop off and likely get passed on the long sraightaways.
3) A high inertia engine is wonderful for street tractability, and great in the wet, as the wheelspin is lazier and more controllable. Hmmm, wonder if that's why there were four Buells in the top ten at Road America in the rain? But crankshaft inertia is a disadvantage on a dry race track in the hands of top pro riders who ride with lots of wheelspin. Where traction is high, greater inertia hurts spin-up speed of the rear tire when setting a bike up to turn with a sliding tire. You can spin it up biut it's less responsive to do quickly, so your best bet is to break it loose early and hard under braking then keep it lit. With spec tires this means your tires will get fried earlier, and your ability to modulate the throttle and spin is slower too. Hmmm, sounds like Danny at Laguna, eh, if you watched the race with an interest in actually seeing what was going on.
4) (I know I said 3 but I had to throw in a bonus, but there are many, many more attributes at play in a motorcycle than these) As we said before, high engine inertia makes a bike mellow on the street as it keeps the bike from being jerky on and off the throttle, keeps dust or water on the road from being as much of a problem. But it makes a bike harder to snap right left through S type turns on a race track. The only way to get through these turns is to short shift and drop the rpm, but then the bike won't accelerate off the corner.
So, what we are seeing is a race class that takes this complexity and differences in motorcycle design into account, and allows rules juggling as more information about the different bikes' performances comes in. And lo and behold, we have a great series, with 6 brands and significantly different types competing for the wins.
These people who are tainting the great racing with truly uneducated "technical" comments like "What about more power" need to go back to school. Yes Danny has an acceleration advantage, but he was nearly ten MPH down on top speed to the Hondas on the long back straight at Road America. Did he whine about that? No. Don't you think it must frustrate him when the lighter bikes can outbrake him and block the smooth line he needs to take to minimize inertia effects, or drive around him in a corner later in a race after his tires are fried? Sure, but he never says "Well I could have won if those other guys weren't allowed lighter bikes" |
Bikejunky
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 08:00 pm: |
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http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=37624
might be a repost but this is awesome! Right rider, right bike!!! |
Ponti1
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 08:28 pm: |
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Bikejunky, great video!!!
For anyone that wants to see higher res, here's a link:
http://www.onthethrottle.com/mambots/content/jw_al lvideos/players/mediaplayer_4.3.swf?http%3A%2F%2Fw ww.onthethrottle.com%2Fadmin%2Fupload%2FEslick_Mid _Ohio_09.jpg&file=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.onthethrottle.c om%2Fadmin%2Fupload%2FEslick_Mid_Ohio_09.flv&volum e=100&plugins=viral-1d |
Slypiranna
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 08:38 pm: |
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I've often wondered if "Anonymous" wasn't the Man himself...
Only a real racer/rider can make a post like 3 posts up!  ...
It's really refreshing to read such good information. |
Diablo1
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 09:02 pm: |
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Anonymous says:"2) Then, the impact of power drops off exponentially with speed when CdA takes over. So a heavy bike with a higher CdA would be slower into and through the corners, quicker once it gets out of the corners but then drop off and likely get passed on the long sraightaways."
Isn't that EXACTLY what Rocky said about the Buell? It's got more HP and more aerodynamic drag. So who's right? Blake or Anonymous? I think anonymous.} |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 09:19 pm: |
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Educated people with facts can sure screw up a really entertaining internet thread . . . .
For what it''s worth . . . and I'm telling old-timers nothing they don't know . . . the last time Erik and I and our families were together for almost a week not once did we ever talk "bikes". Between kids, guitars, hobbies and family . . .when he leaves the factory he's got his hands full.
He's always bugging me for construction secrets though . . . always want to know what we are building next year.
I don't discuss future power plants. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 01:58 am: |
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Thanks Anony for the post. Refreshing to read things like...very informative. |
Cmmfiremedic
| | Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 09:12 am: |
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I have tried to be quiet on this forum and not comment but some people on here need another job if you have so much time to set on here an complain. The AMA racing has changed alot and some people dont like the new rules and some that are racing but take a chill pill. There are more manufacters and different racers winning than has been since the 70's. Someone in there garage with their bike now can race and have a good time that hasn't been possible in a long time. I know all the jap liter bikes are pissed but oh well. A man with 200 employees has build a bike that has taken everyone else thousands of people and millions of dollars to do. Cut them some slack. I agree with some of the other comments on here if the buell was so great they would be winning every race and the field would be full of them. The best I have saw HP doesn't mean a whole lot. If anyone read the article in sportrider a few months ago a 100hp honda turned a better lap time that the 180hp 1198 Ducati. I own several buells and I like them and not trying to defend anyone but I haven't saw anyone complaining in the past when one manufacter and same rider was winning all the races. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2009 - 11:54 am: |
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A skinny little waif of a rider is worth a lot in terms of CDA. Danny (Slick) Eslick is no skinny little waif. He hails from hearty, grain-fed Oklahoma frontier settler stock. If he wasn't such an incredibly nice man, he could easily go all Chuck Norris on the petty little whiners and reconfigure their petite little craniums into the shape of puny little 0.6L IL4 engines.
Give me the #$!% duct tape and get the #$!% out of the way! I'm here to win the damn race!
If you are going up against Slick, and he has the benefit of a competitive machine on competitive tires, then your heart and courage are going to be sorely tested.
The petty little cowards at stuporbike planet have no heart. They are threatened by the big bad Buell and the true grit and courage of a great American motorcycle racer like Danny Eslick. |
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