| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Court, It was every single BMW with the new "improved" rear wheel bearing. Those were the models with the hollow rear wheel mount. The older, solid final drive models were fine. The newer design was "supposed" to be lifetime sealed and maintenance free. Yeah, we know how far THAT went. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Oxford says: awesome adjective extremely impressive or daunting; inspiring great admiration, apprehension, or fear. ------------- It's got some very clever stuff and it goes like a Hyabusa. I'll run with admiration and impressive. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
If I had 170 hp in my Vrod it would mean I could make 140 mph on level pavement instead of 120 downhill. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I think the new 1000 hits the intended mark better than the k1300 for a couple of reasons. 1) Price 2) Weight 3) Price and Weight kept will keep the youth market away I'm sure the K bike is perfect in many ways, and I'd probably prefer it to the new 1000. But, BMW has failed numerous times to achieve a performance rep, and the 1000 is geared more to the intended market that BMW needs for it's long-term health. | ||
| Spatten1 |
If I had 170 hp in my Vrod it would mean I could make 140 mph on level pavement instead of 120 downhill. LOL, that's funny as hell. I have about the same results with my XB9. | ||
| Blake |
"which should eventually be followed by a mass-market Asian manufactured 600, where the volume and $ can be made" But Scott, the Japanes 600cc repli-racers are well understood to be loss leaders. They don't make much if any profit for the manufacturers. | ||
| Danger_dave |
K blurbage. http://kiwiridermagazine.blogspot.com/2009/08/quic k-flick-bmws-big-gun.html | ||
| Spatten1 |
But Scott, the Japanes 600cc repli-racers are well understood to be loss leaders. They don't make much if any profit for the manufacturers. Maybe you are right. When I worked at Kawi they were considered an important profit center due to the consistent volume. Things may have changed, it's been nearly 10 years. | ||
| Blake |
They make dealerships money. They don't make the factories money. Chili, That's a good explanation, but going from 1,000 to 3,000 is a HUGE change. It seems too much of a change and too beneficial to the larger factories. Seems like 1,000 was good enough. | ||
| Jaimec |
That's the first time I've seen the word "Desmodromic" and "BMW" in the same article. Wonder what they're talking about? It ain't the valve train, that I know! | ||
| Danger_dave |
The exhaust gate is opened and closed mechanically. Maybe? (Message edited by danger_dave on August 04, 2009) | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
3,000 is a big change, I'm undecided whether I think it's too much. I guess they're trying to make it a real production based series. Not only will it stop bikes like the 1098R, but also bikes like the RC45 and R7. Maybe they want companies to make a long-term investment in the series - to make a change to a bike for 3000 units I'd guess it would be something they'd have to stick with for a few years. (Not sure if that makes sense.) It annoys me that Ducati has built such expensive homologation specials, but that's really just because *I* can't afford one  . In reality a lot of items from those "specials" have later found there way to the garden variety models like the 998 and 1198. From a 2008 interview with KTM: Is the 3000 homologation rule a concern for a company the size of KTM? PHILIPP HABSBURG (KTM HEAD OF VEHICLES): “That’s for sure a problem, because now in the first year we sell around 3000 pieces a year. The RC8 is a price level of 16/17,000 Euros, if we look at the Ducati their race model is around 35/37,000 Euros, when the really expensive model is the homologation for Superbike racing. “I think it’s also not possible for Ducati to sell 3000 pieces a year of this 35,000 Euro model. The next half a year will show us how it works and this year it’s much easier to see how it goes on because it’s clearer how it works.” | ||
| Blake |
Like I said, the corruption is evident. All you need to do is look at who is the biggest beneficiary... Honda. | ||
| Jaimec |
Hmmmm... from postings I've seen earlier (Matt from Trojan?) I thought it was the Italians (and Ducati) that had a stranglehold on WSBK. Honda has their hooks HEAVILY in MotoGP though. That is evident by the number of bikes and teams they support in that series. And now, of course, they have the exclusive contract to provide engines for the Moto2 series. | ||
| Blake |
So you think they'd not be looking at WSBK too? | ||
| Spatten1 |
I believe Ducati has won 15 of the last 18 championships. Yes, increased homologation might hurt them, I don't know how many of their R models they sell. Suffice to say, in the last couple of decades they've had some serious influence over the rules makers in WSBK. | ||
| Jaimec |
Maybe that's the REAL reason BMW fought so aggressively to keep the price of the S1000RR down... it would be easier to sell 3,000 units of that model worldwide at it's current price point than it could if it was as expensive as the Ducati or the Aprilia. This might force the two Italian firms to look more closely at their own price point. In this economy, who can afford a $35,000 superbike when you can buy one of nearly the same capability for almost a third of the price? | ||
| Blake |
>>>This might force the two Italian firms to look more closely at their own price point. In this economy, who can afford a $35,000 superbike when you can buy one of nearly the same capability for almost a third of the price? Baloney. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Value is one of the intangibles. Compare the K1300 and a Hyabusa. They go very similarly. The BM costs 40% more. The Busa has a much nicer cockpit too, but I know what one I 'feel' better riding. Everyone has a different budget for that luxury. (Message edited by danger_dave on August 04, 2009) | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
The S1000RR is to be $13,800 in the U.S., is that right? And that's very close to a GSXR/CBR/ZX/R1? Anyone heard any prices for the RSV4? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
RSV4=$2oK | ||
| 2kx1 |
The RSV4 is supposed to be less than abase 1198. | ||
| Elvis |
Take a look at the Superbike rules and you'll see why BMW and the Japanese companies can offer their "Superbikes" so inexpensively. Superbike rules allow the inlines to change nearly all the engine internals so the street bikes only look like the Superbikes. Ducati, on the other hand, is allowed very few modifications. The 1098R is much closer to the actual superbike than any of the others. And I suspect that's why BMW chose an inline 4. Not because that configuration is the only one that can be competitive but because the rules favor it highly. WSBK rules have some serious flaws. I don't see why the inline 4's shouldn't be forced to sell what they race like twins are. | ||
| Jaimec |
Elvis, from what I understand, that was the arrangement made when WSBK allowed Ducati to run a 1200 vs a 1000. When they ran the 1000 they actually had MORE leeway to modify the bike than the IL4s. If it weren't for one Mr. Spies on an IL4, Ducati would be running away with the series AGAIN this year. (Message edited by Jaimec on August 05, 2009) | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Main differences I know are that the 1200 twins must use the original pistons and rods, and they have a 50mm air restrictor. The manufacturer can submit an alternate piston for homologation but it must be available for customers at the same price as the standard piston. Other than that, I believe 1200cc twins are allowed the same engine mods as 1000cc triples and fours. The mods allowed are not as free as they used to be in the 750 era. Jaimec is right, 1000cc twins did (and still do) have a little more freedom with pistons, rods, crankshaft and clutch. Some nerd put together a table of some of the Superbike tech rules here.  | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
I'm impressed, and surprised, that BMW have got the price so competitive for the S1000RR, even considering some bits are options. It makes me look at the bike quite differently. I'm keen to have a look at one when they arrive here, just out of curiosity. (Though I was also surprised that pricing on the G450X enduro is competitive too) | ||
| Rfischer |
Sourcing in Korea is how they've kept the prices down; hard parts and entire motors. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I don't believe they would sell many bikes if they made them in Germany and sold them for $20k, or even $16k. Sourcing in Korea is their only hope of breaking into the performance market. Performance buyers are less brand sensitive than traditional BMW, HD, Ducati, and Buell buyers. Bikes are just tools to racers, very little if any emotional attachment to a manufacturer. What matters is if you can or can't win with the bike, and the cost to assemble the winning machine. The wanna be's will follow by buying what the track day studs and race privateers do well with. | ||
| 46champ |
And the nerd did a really nice job of it too. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I thought I got called on the carpet because Buells engines were built in Austria and BMWs were built in Germany. They are sourced from Korea? Cheaters. |
