| Author |
Message |
    
Vtwinbuell
| | Posted on Saturday, July 25, 2009 - 07:23 pm: | 
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This is my first post on here, so hello from Omaha everyone. I have read a lot of good advice on here.
I have been searching for this problem, but cannot find it in the forums. When my bike is idling cold or hot it will squeak, both in neutral and in gear with the clutch pulled. As soon as I roll the throttle a bit it will go away, I can hear it when I stop at an intersection over the pipe. It sounds like the belt on a car squeaking, not squealing. I took it to the dealer today to have them look at it, the mechanic acted like the engine was going to blow up. His reaction kind of surprised me, and I would like to know if anyone else has ran into this problem and what the cause was. The bike has been doing this for a couple weeks, and I didn't really worry about it till his reaction. The bike only has about 4300 miles.
Please let me know if you have heard of or experienced this one.
Thanks,
John |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Sunday, July 26, 2009 - 11:34 pm: |
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Strictly a Wild A---d Guess, but since the squeek only happens at idle, try looking closely at the front isolator and the front motor mount and bolts. The noise could be metal/metal rubbing between the front motor mount, head, and a broken or loose mounting bolt. Same w/the front isolator. Wear or damage is allowing bits to move, so it is squeaking like a loose belt. The noise goes away when moving, because now there is a load on the engine assy through the drive belt, binding the parts together, stopping the squeek.
Hope this helps, Dave
(Message edited by akbuell on July 26, 2009) |
Vtwinbuell
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2009 - 07:04 pm: |
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Thanks Dave, that makes sense, the repetition of the squeak seemed too slow to be a moving part in the engine. Too bad I left it at the dealer for repair. At least now I don't have to think about what an engine rebuild would cost.
John |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 10:52 am: |
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You are certainly welcome. Please let us know what cures the problem. Dave |
Vtwinbuell
| | Posted on Monday, August 03, 2009 - 08:06 pm: |
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Bad News for me, I never knew anything like this could happen. So it turns out that the nut on the crankshaft that holds the flywheel on came loose, and the acceleration and deceleration of the engine caused the splines on the crankshaft to wear down, they are about half their original size. Each squeak was the flywheel slipping forward or backward on the crankshaft, and beating on the splines a little each time. I have never heard of anything like this, and if lock tight was used on the nut, then it would have never happened!!! If anyone from Buell is reading this I would really appreciate anything you can do for me, I will be trading in the bike tomorrow for a 1125R. I have ridden Sea-doo PWCs for years and never had a problem, so I will go with the Rotax engine this time.
Once again This is a problem from the assembly plant, there is not anything that I did to cause this, nor would any type of maintenance prevent it.
The Estimate on the repair is $2000-$2500, I find this a bit ridiculous for a manufacturer defect, the dealership will not admit it though, they just say that nothing that I did could have caused it.
If anyone else ever hears this squeak, all I can say is sorry man, there goes your engine. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Monday, August 03, 2009 - 11:40 pm: |
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FYI, there is a Service Bulletin Alert for the XB series engines to increase the torque on the engine's drive sprocket to 250 +/1 10 ft-lbs. Is this the nut to which you are referring? |
Vtwinbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 03:11 am: |
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I believe it is the same nut, the nut is on the crankshaft holding what the dealer called the flywheel on, it has the chain sprocket on it.
Where do I find any information about the Service Bulletin?
If this is true, it is a known problem, and the dealer is trying to take me for a ride. I had the bike in there a couple months ago for the headlights, the dealer should have re-torqued the nut then, they looked up my VIN to see if it had received the headlight update, wouldn't it say that one as well.
Does anyone have the phone number for Buell? I cannot find it on their site. |
Vtwinbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 04:53 am: |
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I found this on a Harley Forum. I need to contact Buell to see if they will do anything. I need a way to contact them though.
TT 211 – September 16, 2005
Sportster and Buell XB Model Flywheel Sprocket Shaft Nut Torque Update
The flywheel sprocket shaft nut torque for 2004 & later Sportsters and 2003 & later Buell XB models has been changed. The torque has been
increased from 190-210 to 240-260 ft lbs.
Remember to clean the threads and generously apply LOCTITE Threadlocker 262 (red) onto the threads of engine sprocket shaft and use the SPROCKET LOCKING LINK (Part No. HD-46283 or HD-38362) as shown in the picture below.
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Dhalen32
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 07:34 am: |
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John:
How is the dealer at fault and taking you for a ride? You stated (correctly, I believe) that you found a tech bulletin that talks about increasing the torque of the nut securing the sprocket to the crankshaft. I remember seeing this torque spec issue prominently displayed on a pop up here on Badweb. I also agree that this sounds like an assembly/manufacturing defect.
Are you the original owner and/or registered with the manufacturer so that if this was a qualified recall event that you would be notified to return it to the dealer for a covered repair? Is this increase the nut torque tech bulletin part of a recall campaign?
It sounds to me like you need to call Buell CS and see if this is a repair that they will cover at their expense. I believe that you can do this yourself or through Matt Mackie, the Service Manager at your dealer.
Dave
P.S. I also live in Omaha and run the dealership's rider training program. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 09:14 am: |
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The dealer ain't taking you for a ride. You got a 5 year old bike, so its probably not under warranty anymore. Yes it sounds like a manufacturing defect, which is what would be covered under the warranty. If you want, give Buell CS a call, 1-414-343-8400. Maybe they can work something out for you.
It was not a recall, its just a TSB. They increased the torque because of a handful of other bikes had the same issue. |
Vtwinbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 09:20 am: |
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I bought the bike 3&1/2 months ago with 2300 miles, so I was not on these forums when the technical bulletin would have been showing up.
Before I bought the bike, I did my homework and found everything I could. The kickstand bolt doesn't pertain to my bike, neither does the brake line. The headlight did and I took it in to have them replaced, at that time they looked my VIN up and put my VIN in their system. They preformed work on my bike, as a Trained Mechanics, they would have been well aware of the change and why.
I only blame the dealer for not taking care of it when they had the bike in their shop and now acting like they have never heard of this problem.
I blame the manufacturer for not building it right in the first place.
Maybe if I went to school to become a Buell certified mechanic I would have known about the technical bulletin. I found this out after the fact, notice the sequence of the posts.
I am sorry if I come off like an ass in this thread, my engine is dead at 4300 miles.
Dave, you do a great job with the Riders Edge program. Kevin and Al were great teachers and I became a much better rider going through the course.
I'll contact Matt and see if he can give me the CS number, since it isn't posted on Buell's website.
John |
Vtwinbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 09:22 am: |
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Froggy,
Thanks for the number.
John |
Froggy
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 09:34 am: |
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quote:at that time they looked my VIN up and put my VIN in their system. They preformed work on my bike, as a Trained Mechanics, they would have been well aware of the change and why.
This won't show up that way. Only recalls and other upgrade programs show up. This torque increase was just a TSB and an update to the service manual. There have been only a handful of nuts that came loose, and Buell took the corrective action and started making them tighter from the factory and then sent out the TSB. There is a handful of various TSBs, majority of them are just updated procedures for doing stuff and improving troubleshooting.
Hell, you should see the long list of them on my car, none of them that I have needed yet. |
Vtwinbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 10:37 am: |
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Sorry for venting a little guys. The dealer has always been very helpful. I talked to Buell CS and asked Matt to give them a call on my behalf. They are both working with me on this one, hopefully they will give me a little assistance on this repair. Thanks for all of your help guys. I will post the outcome as soon as I find out.
John |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 12:24 pm: |
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Glad things seem to be working out. FYI, Buell has a good record here for stepping up to the plate ref issues. Hope this is yet another time they do so. Dave |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 12:41 pm: |
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And for clarity, based on first hand experience with that nut coming loose on my 2000 M2...
1) It doesn't seem to come loose very often "from the factory", I suspect it is tightend right from there. Its the service manual instructions for replacing it that are updated, so it's when somebody has to remove and replace it that the service bulletin updated spec becomes important.
2) A loose nut makes it sound like a clank (with kind of a ring) with every piston firing, particularly in neutral or with the clutch in. If you lightly drag the clutch (not even moving the bike) it goes away.
3) You can ride it this way for 30 miles and have no observable crank damage (mine started when I was that far from home).
4) I don't think the scope of that bulletin was "pull the primary cover and retorque that crank nut". I think it was "if you have to remove the crank nut, when you put it back, use this new torque.
5) I think that nut has loktite red on it (as per the manual). But that was a while ago, so I could be forgetting.
So anyway, just for what that's worth, just a little extra first hand data. Sorry about your bike, a screwed up crank is a real hassle to fix...
On the up side, the only actual parts you need now are a new crank. Most of the cost is the extreme amount of labor. So if somebody does pony up to fix it, it'll be a nice clean fix. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 01:25 pm: |
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Bill:
Your information is correct.
>>>I find this a bit ridiculous for a manufacturer defect
That is an inaccurate statement. This was not a "defect" or "built wrong".
A warranty is a WRITTEN contract between a buyer and a seller. If there is any doubt about if this is covered under warranty a quick read of that contract will shed some light on it.
The S1 warranty was for a period of 1 year from the date the bike was sold.
Typically, again absent a written document to the contrary, a USED motorcycle or car is purchased "as is, where is".
The bad side of this is that most the owner's assumptions and statements regarding Buell are inaccurate and lack merit.
The good news is that Buell has an excellent record for stepping up to the plate.
Neither the dealer nor Buell did anything "wrong" that I read in the above. |
Vtwinbuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 03:34 pm: |
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My Final update on the situation.
I called Buell CS and they took all of my information. The first person was very helpful and gave me a reference number sending me onto their advanced support. After talking to the second representative, they asked me to have the service department call them. I called the service department and asked them to call Buell with the reference number, and they did. I went to the dealer at the end of the day to find out what happened. They hung up because they were on hold and were going to let it go at that point because I was buying a new bike anyway. I asked them to try calling one more time, and they did since I was standing there the whole time. After 15 minutes of holding they talked for a couple minutes. The Service Manager let me know that the repairs would be covered by Buell.
I was able to get full trade in on my 12R. I purchased a new Buell and now have a Factory Warranty. Buell stands behind their bikes and I am proud to be a Buell owner. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 04:10 pm: |
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Glad to hear it all worked out. I had a feeling they would warranty it based on past cases, but didn't want to say it and get your hopes up in case they didn't. I hope you have better luck with the new bike  |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 05:53 pm: |
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Excellent!
AMAZING service from the folks at Buell!
Typical . . .
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Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 06:14 pm: |
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Wow! That's all I have to say about that. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 05, 2009 - 06:20 pm: |
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It really is an amazing company . . . try that with any other motorcycle or auto manufacturer.
Kudos to the folks at Buell Customer Service.
And on a |
Dhalen32
| | Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 07:33 am: |
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John:
It sounds like Buell and Dillon Brothers did the job for you! Welcome to the forum and Buell ownership. I own two of the darn things myself.
I now have to get you down to MAM to try your new Buell out on the track. Did I send you a try the track coupon when we were working on your Rider's Edge course registration?
Dave |
Vtwinbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, August 06, 2009 - 08:16 pm: |
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Dave,
Both Dillon Brothers and Buell were very helpful and easy to work with.
I never received a track coupon. We had talked about MAM, it sounds like fun. I believe they had a try the track day while I was taking the class. If you can send me something on it, that would be great. PM me if you don't have my info from the June 21st class.
Thanks everyone for your help and input.
John |
Dhalen32
| | Posted on Friday, August 07, 2009 - 07:58 am: |
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John:
I will mail you a coupon. If Trackaddix is done for the year with the four hour "try the track" class you can also show up on a MotoMonday and they do a free escorted track ride of about 4 laps at 5:00 PM. Call or e-mail me for more information on that deal.
Dave |
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