| Author | Message | ||
     Avc8130 |
Just got the Sept 2009 issue of Motorcyclist and Buell has a 2 page ad on the back of the front cover and opposing page! It appears to be a portion of the BOB...the portion about Erik's opinion of "sitting". There is a 1-page article about riding RMR's 1125R. They estimate 150rwhp! ac | ||
| Blake |
"They estimate 150rwhp!" How do you estimate RWHP? They likely have an agenda, to show the Buell as an overdog in the series. Care to bet that if they ever ride one of the other series leading machines that they'll estimate it at something a lot less than 150 RWHP? | ||
| Bott |
I'll bet the other machines, according to them, will be "estimated" in the 120 rwhp range. Seems to be most of the media's go-to numbers...."The Big Buell" seems to be heard countless times lately. (although she is a HEAVIER girl,true) | ||
| T_man |
Come on felllas... 150RWHP is entirely believable for that bike. If some of our 1125's are cranking out 140+ without a full system but just a slip-on with fueling mods, is it that hard to believe this professional racing outfit hit the 150 mark? | ||
| Bott |
not doubting the 150 rwhp, just wondering what the claim will be for the non-Buells ,what with the usual antibuell sediments we are used to reading.... | ||
| Ponti1 |
What's the IL4 600cc typically make at the rear wheel when completely stock? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
How do you estimate RWHP? They likely have an agenda, to show the Buell as an overdog in the series. Care to bet that if they ever ride one of the other series leading machines that they'll estimate it at something a lot less than 150 RWHP? Not that they couldn't have an agenda, but the 150 number is what was recently seen in a post race dyno run. It was also the number expected from Tom's race bike given the new fuel map and race exhaust. | ||
| Chadhargis |
I wanna ride Tom's race bike!  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You and me both, man. You and me both. With the new exhaust, it sounds like it wants to eat children. | ||
| Smoke |
ft, is tom's new race bike an 1125r? tim | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Yep! Bad Azz it is!!!! Has both the BUELL race exhaust and the same fuel map as the race team (Barnes I think). I've had to change my shorts three times from firing it up. Can only imagine what it's like ON the bike. Sounds much better than the Jardine that was on it. That race exhaust is a NICE piece of kit. | ||
| Maul |
Obviously horsepower is not the deciding factor in racing. Eslick is the only Buell rider consistently up front and those damned Yamahas and Suzukis give him fits every race. If raw H.P. was the only thing that mattered this series would have a champion already. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If raw H.P. was the only thing that mattered this series would have a champion already. Ask BMW. | ||
| Court |
>>>If raw H.P. was the only thing that mattered this series would have a champion already. It's not. Think of that argument as a pacifier to quiet the weak mind. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'll dig it up, there is a great set of rules of thumb from Kevin Cameron on this months cycle world. He was talking about them killing the 250cc two stroke racing classes and switching to 600cc inline fours. Basically, to make an inline four make big power, you just keep cranking up the redline, they have lots of room. You wouldn't want to run a street bike that way, but for a "this motor has to run for two hours between rebuilds", you can make a lot of power. Twins have two pistons instead of four, and are bumping the "physics" limits for peak RPM, so they can't just keep dialing up rev's like an inline four can. They have a more then 2x bigger piston and rod (which puts inertial limits on changing the direction of the system quickly) and they must sweep a longer length with each stroke (which limits piston speed due to the ultimate film strengths a lubricant can maintain). (warning, everything I learned about motorcycle engines, I read on the internet) | ||
| Spike |
Depends on the dyno, but somewhere between 100-110rwhp:  | ||
| Reepicheep |
From the Sept 2009 issue of Cycle World (which also includes the infamous blastcube inside the front cover)... Page 73, "Four-stroke Future: 250 GP becomes Moto2" written by Kevin Cameron:
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| Elvis |
Here's my reasonably educated guess on the numbers: Top prepped Buells - 150 HP, 385 lbs Top prepped 4's - 135 HP, 360 lbs That gives Buell - 2.56 lbs per HP And the 4's - 2.66 lbs per HP So that gives a slight advantage to the Buell. . . . but when it comes to racing on tracks like these, don't underestimate the advantage of lower weight. Lower weight puts less stress on tires, suspensions, brakes etc. Less stress on those components means they can either get away with poorer quality or be less stressed if they are as high quality - it's a good bet that Danny's tires are more worn by the end of the race than Cardenas' so he's losing grip while Cardenas has relatively fresher rubber. The lighter bike will be able to hold a tighter line around a corner. It should be able to brake later and less in the corner for more consistent speeds. The suspension will be able to keep better contact while moving less. Simply put, it's just a lot easier to do all the things that need to be done on the racetrack with a lighter bike than a heavier bike. If given the choice of a lighter bike with slightly poorer power to weight ratio, I think (everything else being equal) I'd go with the lighter bike. Of course the exciting thing is, if Danny can get on an 1125RR in Superbike, he now has a more powerful bike in the same size package he has been riding in Sportbike. That's an exciting prospect. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
It's too bad that the rest of the Buell riders suck so bad. Otherwise it would be 1,2, 3rd to Buell. | ||
| 46champ |
Ft_bstrd the surprising thing is the rest of the Buell riders don't suck. Everyone of them has at least one championship to their credit. A while back Barney said something to the effect that he had never seen a rider take to a bike so quickly. If Danny gets on a RR next year and goes Superbike racing and the same thing happens he will have hit the lottery. I think that the extra weight is probably the reason that Slick didn't do that well at a few of the tracks. I was watching the lap times a couple of races back and at about 80% of race distance he lost about a second a lap I would guess the tires went away. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I was being sarcastic. I KNOW they don't suck. | ||
| 46champ |
I kind of thought so or maybe hoped so. | ||
| Eaton_corners |
Funny you should mention the effects weight has on handling. I recall hearing that at Daytona (the only race long enough to require a tire change) every team changed both front and rear tires except the Buell teams, who only changed rears. Seems to be an advantage to have a ZTL2 braking system. | ||
| Banana_man |
Can somebody tell me why the buell is racing against bikes half of its capacity? When other twin manufacuteres are racing 1000cc machines. just seams a bit odd. | ||
| Jrockne |
aprilia? | ||
| Macchiato |
Because Aprilia doesn't have a bigger V-twin. | ||
| Court |
>>>Can somebody tell me why the buell is racing against bikes half of its capacity? Sure. Varying engine configurations have varying efficiencies. The race series has been crafted to try to balance those. Displacement is one, and only ONE measure of a motor's output. To give you a sense as to why displacement, standing alone, is no way to judge . . thing of it this way. My Ford truck displaces 5.4L and has about 300HP. The current crop of Indy cars has 3.5L (about 54% more) and produces about 650HP. Even in view of the radical disparity of tune you get a view that there is much more than simple displacement in acheiving parity. The race results from the year, Buell wins some and Buells are scattered through the pack . . . and the top 10 places at Road America included 6 manufacturers, show that the folks who've put lots of time and thought in have done a pretty good job. They evaluate the series periodically and change as needed. I am aware of at least one time when they meted out a list of changes. . . . added weight and so forth this year. The goal is to present an exciting racing show. They are excelling. |
