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Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 01:24 am: | 
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Too bad the docked Danny 10 points for passing under a waving yellow.
(Message edited by fresnobuell on August 02, 2009) |
Toona
| | Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 01:32 am: |
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I thot I saw him pass with a waving yellow, but wasn't sure if the pass had already taken place, he was in the process of passing, or just starting the pass... |
Toona
| | Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 01:33 am: |
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Higbee's Twitter says he was penalized for a technical infraction. Anyone know what happened? That's why he started at the back. |
Cyclonedon
| | Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 03:45 am: |
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I think the Uly pulled off to change its wheel bearings.
right side heat so he pulled over for a cold one! |
Trojan
| | Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 05:19 am: |
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This is obscene. I had no idea of the carnage. The people of the island and Isle of Man Department of Tourism should be ashamed of themselves. I had no idea.
If true, the fact that competitors are not paid well makes it far WORSE in my view, as then it's pure exploitation of them with no fair compensation, all for the benefit of the Isle of Man Department of Tourism, whoever that encompasses. I guarantee you the motive of that group is money and nothing but money.
What a ridiculous argument! The Isle of Man TT takes place on public roads and is a unique event in the world of motorcycle racing. Everyone that takes part does so willingly and under no commercial, sponsor or peer pressure and everyone does so knowing the considerable dangers involved. Nobody goes to race there having been told that work has been carried out to improve safety and expecting large run off areas and gravel traps. You can never compare public roads 'real' road racing to closed course competition on a circuit specifically designed for motorsport use, and to excuse poor safety at a purpose built circuit by comparing it to the Isle of Man (or Macau, or Pau or any other public road circuit)is a complete cop out. If that was the case then why has every other closed course circuit improved so much over the years? Circuit marshalls in the IOM are probably the best in the world, as are the medical teams and facilities. The circuit is made as safe as it can possibly be, but due to the nature and length of the track it can never be as safe as a purpose built track that has run off areas instead of brick walls. The FIM recognise this and it is why the IOM is no longer part of a world championship. Lastly, if you actually look at the huge number of competitors and the massive actual mileage covered by racers at the IOM rather than the tabloid fatality charts you'd see that the records over a 100 year period are not quite the 'carnage' you would suggest.
RE stated in his interviews that there are only 3 or 4 circuits in the US that can come up to FIM safety standards, but then effectively says that 'we have to use what weve got' rather than 'we will do our best to get the other circuits up to standard or remove tem from the calendar', which is what I would expect an organiser to say.
In answer to your point about competitors being killed hitting a wall, there have been a few over the last few years in MotoGP (Dajiro Kato), BSB (Olly Bridewell), WSS (craig Jones) and probably more than a few club events that don't make headlines. All 3 of the above were killed in accidents that would normally not have proved fatal and at 'safe' circuits. However, just to pull out fatal accidents (some of which take place at VERY safe circuits) doesn't address the issue of individual circuit safety and the organisers duty to ensure that the circuits are as safe as they can possibly be BEFORE rides turn up to race there.
As for riders payment, 99% riders at the IOM get NOTHING. not a penny in payment or prize money. If they are lucky they will have a sponsor that will pay for travel costs or equipment, but prize money is almost unheard of except for the first few places. At the Manx GP there is no payment for anyone (even the winners) and all anyone gets is a trophy. People (even the top riders) do not ride at the Isle of Man for money but to 'beat the circuit', and if you ask riders such as Guy Martin or John McGuinness they would tell you that money has nothing to do with their decision to race there.
Congratulations to Buell on Danny Eslicks win, and to Larry Pegram for another win on the Ducati 
(Message edited by trojan on August 02, 2009) |
Elvis
| | Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 07:37 am: |
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So where were the problems? Did anybody see any real problems with the track (beyond what you see at anything other than the top tracks)? Did they strategically place the cameras so that we couldn't see the real problems?
Who are we going to believe, Mladin or our lying eyes?
. . . or Pegram who says the track is fine and Mladin went on a tirade and cursed him out because he wouldn't agree with him.
When it comes to a "he said, he said" I think Pegram - who has no axe to grind and has always seemed like one of the good guys to me - is a much more credible witness than Mladin. |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 08:08 am: |
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Matt,
There is/was no "25 ft drop." Your information on that is inaccurate. The feature in question is ten ft and is not a shear drop. It is a sloped embankment that is a fair distance off the racing line of the track. The major remaining point of concern after first practice was a concrete wall atop that embankment. When advised of the concern, the track management had it removed. Problem solved, concern addressed. Let's go racing.
Interestingly, in the pre-race interview, Larry Pegram expressed his own disdain for Matt Mladin, who according to Larry threatened violence against him for expressing his opinion that the track was safe. Larry stated that he had lost al respect for Mladin. Larry is not an emotional man. He's very level headed and very intelligent.
The fact of the matter is that some riders expressed concerns and in response, the track folks took care of the issue on the spot. The track folks had already made a lot of changes way ahead of time. Any characterization that they failed to do so is inaccurate.
"why has every other closed course circuit improved so much over the years?"
Name one on the American Superbike schedule that hasn't done likewise. You won't be able to on account of they all have made significant adjustments to improve safety, especially Heartland Park. Your information on the issue is inaccurate. The vast overwhelming majority of AMA competitors see it that way and found the track to be acceptably safe. If any riders deemed it too risky, they were free to sit out the round.
It's a bit strange that I have yet to hear described what exactly Mladin and the other two who sat out this weekend's racing deemed problematic about the track. If it was the aforementioned wall, well that concern was addressed and resolved on the spot.
"RE stated in his interviews that there are only 3 or 4 circuits in the US that can come up to FIM safety standards, but then effectively says that 'we have to use what weve got' rather than 'we will do our best to get the other circuits up to standard or remove tem from the calendar', which is what I would expect an organiser to say."
But your paraphrasing of Mr. Edmondson is incomplete and inaccurate. He absolutely did express their policy of working with the tracks to improve them. What are you saying, that if you were running things at AMA Pro Racing, you'd threaten the track owners and shut down all but the four FIM-approvable circuits (Laguna Seca, Miller Motorsports Park, Indianapolis, and Barber, guessing on Barber)? Really? Hey, that'd make for a quick death of the sport. Also, it is not necessarilly safety concerns that prevent some venues from gaining FIM sanctioned status. The FIM has some pretty rigorous requirements concerning facilities and the like that some tracks simply cannot afford to implement. As RE stated, we don't have the government providing the funds for such things like in China, so we have to do what we can. THAT is what he meant, not at all like you characterized. Shame on you for that.
Are all the BSB circuits FIM approved?
Matt, Mr. Kato died from crashing into a concrete wall. If the track was safe, then why was it removed from the schedule after the fact, the given reason being safety concerns? It sure as heck wasn't "safe". A man died because of that.
In my view, the pace car is a bigger threat than any feature of concern at any AMA track. Good on the AMA for dealing with that concern and getting the car off the track in favor of a pace bike. Cool that it's a Buell too.
I understand freak accidents. We had one at Oak Hill Raceway a few years ago. There was wide open runoff, nothing to cause serious injury or trauma, just a field of mowed grass; the unfortunate racer just suffered some really horrendously bad luck. Motorcycle racing is dangerous.
My protest is against what appears to be a very biased and relentless campaign, based on less than accurate information, against the good folks at AMA Pro Racing who are doing their best to improve the sport for the benefit of all, fans and riders. I don't understand your focus on badmouthing AMA Pro Racing so often.
I think you are dead wrong about the folks now managing AMA Pro Racing. Roger Edmondson is by all accounts a class act and a man of integrity.
The old AMA however suffered some very significant problems and a number of very public shortcomings dealing with rider safety and just plain lack of integrity.
John Ulrich has sternly documented those unfortunate issues over the years. He's yet to similarly lambaste the new management for failing to look out for the riders. His own son and his own team are eager participants in the racing this weekend. If there was a real serious problem and lack of response from either the track or the organizers, he'd be shouting about it from the rooftops. He's not. He's going racing. That is more than good enough for me to give the folks running things the benefit of doubt.
As stated previously, I can respect the riders who opt out purely for safety concerns.
I have no respect for those like Mladin who exploit the issue in order to malign honorable men and who threaten violence against fellow racers for refusing to share his agenda.
(Message edited by blake on August 02, 2009) |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, August 02, 2009 - 08:30 am: |
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The issue of 79 dead just since 1990 due to crashes at the IOM TT and Manx races is another matter. I was just completely shocked to learn of the inordinate amount of death deemed acceptable for that place. I'd be ashamed if I lived there. I agree, they cannot make it safe for racing there. Given that, they should stop promoting it. If a group of daredevils want to still go racing there, then fine, that is their choice. I'm all for liberty and freedom to do as one desires within the law. But as long as anyone is promoting it, in my view they have a lot of blood on their hands. |
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