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Whisperstealth
| | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 08:47 am: | 
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Hello,
I'm new to Buells, and am completely lost at this point.
My bike dies out after it gets hot. Here are the things that are happening after starting and running for a short time:
The wires coming straight out of the ignition get to hot to touch/hold. I have held the ignition wires farther down the line where they plug into a lead going to the harness, and they do not get hot like they do straight out of the back of the ignition.
Once the bike has run 6-8 miles, or is good and warmed up it dies out. Once the bike has cooled, it will run for a short time again.
I was told by Buell service it was most likely a bad ECM, and replaced it with a used one, (which had been swapped out for the racing ECM.), and it does the same thing. I was able to put a volt meter on the battery while running and get a 13.7 reading, so I'm thinking the voltage regulator is okay.
I keep thinking the ignition switch is bad somehow, but does this make any since?? Could the coil be putting out to much juice??
Any help would be great!! - I really want to get home at this point, I'm front Arkansas and am stuck in Minnesota.
Whisperstealth |
Whisperstealth
| | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 10:27 am: |
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Wanted to add, when the bike cuts out, the lights/dash, all still work and stay on, hope this helps.
Whisperstealth |
Sparky
| | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 12:57 pm: |
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quote:The wires coming straight out of the ignition get to hot to touch/hold. I have held the ignition wires farther down the line where they plug into a lead going to the harness, and they do not get hot like they do straight out of the back of the ignition.
Are you talking about the wires coming out of the ignition switch where you put the key? If so, the contacts in the switch are probably dirty or corroded to the point that there's high resistance creating heat in the switch and the wires going to it.
You might be able to salvage the switch by squirting some electrical contact cleaner from RadioShack, e.g., into the insides of the switch. If that doesn't work, you might have to bypass the ignition switch to get you going. |
Whisperstealth
| | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 01:32 pm: |
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Yes, the wires coming out of the ignition switch. If the switch is corroded and creating heat, would that be enough to trigger a circuit breaker, and shut the engine down. That has been my theory, but the mechanics at HD don't think so.
I did clean the switch out with WD40, then put so heat on it to dry it out, but no go.... |
Sparky
| | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 04:22 pm: |
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quote:If the switch is corroded and creating heat, would that be enough to trigger a circuit breaker...
Actually the opposite is happening: the dirty switch contacts are adding resistance to whatever current is required to run the ECM, headlight & coils, resulting in less than normal current required to operate the bike but more current to heat up the switch which should not heat up at all. In effect, the dirty switch is acting like a circuit breaker and the result is that your bike stops running after so many minutes.
You were on the right track trying WD40 but WD40 is not the right stuff to clean electrical contacts. That stuff will likely make the problem worse. Do what I suggested and get down to your nearest Radio Shack or electronics store and get some spray contact cleaner. If you can get the spray into the insides of the switch and work the switch back and forth several times to make the contacts rub each other, that's your best bet until you can get a new switch. |
Whisperstealth
| | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 05:55 pm: |
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Well, I tried the bypass, no dice. The wires are not getting hot anymore, but the bike still cuts out. |
Lowbowtie
| | Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2009 - 06:17 pm: |
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Mine is doing the exact same thing ! I have been through the charging system,battery,ecm,ect. Do a ohm test on your coil and see if it is within spec? Mine had high ohm reading on the secondary side while cold. I have a new one on order but I think the secondary is shorting out after it warms up and starts cutting out and drawing down the whole electrical system. mine goes down to 11.3 or so volts @ the battery when its hot but not cold. |
Whisperstealth
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 09:56 am: |
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I'm thinking it's the coil at this point as well. Now the bike will not start at all. It never hesitated or sputtered before, just cut off. Gonna be harder to test now that I can't get it started at all. I'll have to get back to you.... |
Whisperstealth
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 01:06 pm: |
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I also have a mechanic telling me it sounds like the ignition pick-up in the motor/nose cone.
Not to sound like a little b!@#$ch...., but to sound like one, my Kawi KLR650, has never giving me this kind of B.S. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 02:13 pm: |
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With all due respect, your bike is 8 years old and apparently you are not the original owner. Any bike that's not new is going to have some issues, right?
So, what did you do to resolve the "hot wiring" issue in your first post?
I'm sorry I can't be very specific wrt an X1 because I don't have an X1 service manual for relevant info. But I do have a 2003 XB9R and a 1998 S3 Thunderbolt manuals.
-- The XB9R is fuel injected but the S3 is carb'd and the X1 is kinda in between those models, so I'm kinda hazy on the wiring of the key ignition components.
-- There are a few things in common between those two models:
1) The ignition key has to energize one relay for the starter circuit and a different relay for the ignition circuit.
- Each circuit is fused for 15 amps. I'd imagine the X1 is the same.
- However, the ignition relay has to power the injectors and fuel pump on the EFI bikes. So, when the bike doesn't run like it should, does the fuel pump make any priming noise when you turn on the ignition (just guessing here but does it normally make that noise)?
2) the ignition switch has to be able to handle 15 amps max for not only ignition but for accessories like lighting and instruments, etc.
- So there could be 30 amps more or less that the key switch has to handle.
- If it's breaking down under this kind of load, those relays are going to be open-circuiting when they should not be.
3) The ignition pick-up in the nose cone (Cam Position Sensor) gets its power from the ignition relay and sends ignition timing pulses to the ECM which sends ignition ground signals to the coil to fire the spark plugs. So, if the CPS is not getting its +12VDC from the ignition relay, it might appear that the CPS is defective when it's not.
-- The tech should check to see if the CPS is getting +12VDC when the bike dies on you.
Bottom line, test the ignition relay to see if it's passing +12VDC with the ignition key switch "On". |
Whisperstealth
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 05:31 pm: |
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Okay, thanks for all the info. I'm completely new at EFI bikes.
To resolve the "hot wiring", I bypassed the switch. I took out the plug on the other end of the ingition. I then got three wires, put a connector on each one, connected them to the three prongs, and then twisted them together. At that point the bike still started, the wires did not get hot, but the bike still cut out after riding for about ten minutes.
I went and got some relays and the CPS. I'll try the relays first.
I'll be back to report..... |
Whisperstealth
| | Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 - 07:34 pm: |
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Put in new relays, bike still not starting. I old switch back on, when I tried it with the new relays. Didn't try it with the by-pass. Now have nose cone off, and see CPS, but not where the wires go. Took off the exhaust, removed all the side bolts, when to take side off, and oil started coming out. stopped, and put bolts back in. theres got to be a better way to do this. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Saturday, July 25, 2009 - 12:57 pm: |
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I would also check the head temp sensor. On a 2000 X1, it is right on the rear head near the spark plug. |
Whisperstealth
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2009 - 01:24 am: |
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Bike now a shop, no not a dealer. Like a moron I pulled the right side case cover, and the cam with it. - This was while still stuck in Minnesota... Bike now back in Arkansas, by way of trailer. Depression is a mother, but live and learn. |
Lowbowtie
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 09:34 am: |
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Let us know what you find. I have replaced the coil,plug wires,plugs and check the temp sensor ohm's all to no avail. I'm running short on ideas other than there is a shorted wire and the whole bike needs to come apart to find it. Still have 12.5V at the battery while running and showing 11.3 on the ECM spy.
Thanks |
Bosephus
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 10:41 am: |
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Low,
Mine shows the same readings usually around 1.0v lower in ecmspy than at the battery...
Anyone could it be the main breaker dropping the voltage I have been through the harness multiple times and not a short found. |
Lowbowtie
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 - 07:21 pm: |
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Good to know about the 1 volt lower reading. I'm wondering if the voltage reg is not keeping up because when its running I should be seeing like 13+Volts while its running, I'm not sure anymore. I know if I unplug the regulator when its running the voltage drops (like it should) plug it back it and it rises just like it should...?
I guess I'll keep looking, I would take it to the dealer but I'm not sure if they can find the issue either. Its not setting codes so it must be ok. Is what I would be exspecting from them. |
Lowbowtie
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 12:10 am: |
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well after replacing coil.plugs, wires Volt regulator (which fixed the low voltage) fuel filter and a fuel injector. I found a injector that was not getting fuel through it but electicly worked fine.
It runs better than it ever has since I have owned it. Thanks to all who responded and added their suggestions for what might be my issue. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 04, 2009 - 11:13 am: |
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Happy ending, at last. Enjoy. |
Whisperstealth
| | Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 06:35 pm: |
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Well,I've got good news and bad.
The good: The CPS had a short. The hot lead wire had been rubbed raw and was shorting out. Replaced CPS, and put bike back together.
The bad: Bike ran okay for a day. Had some backfire, but nothing big, and the throttle responce wasn't all that great. Thinking the timings off some.
Really bad: Bike cut out again. I warmed it up for about 5 minutes maybe should have waited longer. Anyway, I went down a small hill on my road, and the bike died before I could go up the next hill. Now the bike will not start at all.
Starting to wonder if a buell was the right choice for me. Love riding the bike, but need something reliable I can count on....
Gabe |
Sparky
| | Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 - 10:21 pm: |
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Your trouble might not be the ignition. When you say it won't start at all do you mean it doesn't crank or it cranks but doesn't fire?
If the battery and charging system are OK, there are several switches and relays in the ignition system that could be your (new?) problem.
-- There is a sidestand switch that can intermittently disrupt the ignition.
-- There might be a Bank Angle Sensor (don't know if X1's have one but XB's do) that can interrupt the ignition if it's defective. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on X1's can verify a BAS being on an X1...
(Message edited by Sparky on August 09, 2009) |
Whisperstealth
| | Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 08:41 pm: |
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Sorry, should have said the bike cranks. The lights come on, I can hear and feel the fuel pump "spool" up, and I've checked the fuel filter.
It cranks over just fine. The charging system seems good. The battery will take a charge, (ran it down trying to get the bike started), and I put a volt meter on it (the battery) back when it was running, that reading was 13.7 if I remember right.
I have also replaced the relays in the fuse box, checked all the fuses in the box, all of which were good.
The bike is still at the bottom of the hill.
I wish the bike would run, so I could do more tests. Lowbowtie got his up and running, but I don't have the funds to replace all those things.
I'll check the side stand switch, and get back to you guys, thanks for all the help!
Gabe |
Whisperstealth
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 07:07 pm: |
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Okay, I got to own this one.
My Cam sensor did have a short, but the latest issue appears to be all my own making.
I put a minnie bungee around the tail rail to have an anchor point of sorts. One of the metal hooks had gotten jammed inside my Bank Angle Sensor, and was shorting out the ignition, and the fuel pump I believe. - Talk about live and learn.... |
Lowbowtie
| | Posted on Sunday, August 16, 2009 - 06:34 pm: |
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keep at it til you get it running. It was worth it !!! |
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2001 X1 cutting out after hot.