If two identical racers on identical machines are traveling at identical speed but one is 20 feet and a half second in front of the other at the apex of a turn, but then the lead bike exits the corner (a half second and twenty feet ahead) and accelerates to three times his mid-corner speed followed in the same fashion by the trailing racer but a half second delayed, how will that appear to the casual observer, and how far apart will the two bikes be as they hit top speed in the straight?
Then how will it appear as the racers brake and slow to enter the next turn?
You cannot judge the magnitude of a lead in racing by distance. The distance between two racers is speed dependent and so gives the impression that the leading racer is pulling away coming out of turns and losing ground going into turns. It is an illusion. Coming out the turn prior to the straight, Danny is just a couple bike lengths behind. Entering the keyhole series he's maybe closed up to within a bike length. As he exits the keyhole he carries a BUNCH more speed and drives right past Hacking into the next turn. Slick's front wheel is ahead of Hackings as they enter the turn. From there on out through all the turns in the very twisty bit of the track, Danny just walks away from Hacking.
That was plain and simple outracing. Danny beat Hacking, period. Trying to attribute it to a power advantage is ludicrous. The Buell does likely have a slight power advantage. It also suffers a significant weight penalty. Even with the extra weight, Danny just flat outraced Hacking in the turns.
"There is enough info out there to know that the Buell has an advantage against the 600's."
Do tell, and while you're at it, please explain why it is, with the 1125R's supposed advantage that seems so obvious to you, that Danny is the only Buell to podium so far?
Why isn't it clear that the 600's have an advantage when after all they've won the majority of the races in the class so far this year?
The mindset of some is apparently that "a Buell won a race, it must be the machine, not the racer." That is pure baloney.
On second thought, you might be right, the Buell does have a significant advantage. I apparently handles better even with a significant amount of additional weight.
Personally, I give the majority of the credit to Danny Eslick and his team. Way to go RMR/Geico Powersports!
Blake, I didn't start watching racing this year, I get it. Look again. You can clearly see them chop thier throttles (the front end dive), at which point Eslick is already right on the back tire of Hacking. It is before they let off the gas to slow down for the turn.
It is clear that as the speed increases throughout the kink, the lead distance is the same or closing, where the gap was increasing coming out of the tight turn.
If you don't believe Eslick gained through the straight and kink on horsepower, you are not alone. There are plenty of people here on Badweb that agree, but pretty much nowhere else.
Why isn't it clear that the 600's have an advantage when after all they've won the majority of the races in the class so far this year?
The mindset of some is apparently that "a Buell won a race, it must be the machine, not the racer." That is pure baloney.
Eslick is doing a great job. He's no Hacking yet, maybe someday soon. On equal bikes he'd not have won that race, he'd have been a half second behind Hacking where he passed him.
I'm thinking more about this, and I think I know where the fundamental disagreement is.
I don't care what brand a racer is on, as long as it's competitive. My favorite racers have changed brands, and it was only a different paint job and a new set of challenges to over come, in my mind.
I think it would be great if Buell wins regularly, but I don't really see or care about what brand a racer is riding.
As Blake likes to point out, the bikes are far from stock anyway, so I don't really think of them as real consumer product.
I disliked Honda for years because in GP they had the only competitive machine. That does bug me.
I also believe that Eslick is looking great, and I hope he is a future WSBK champ some day. I just don't think he's good enough to beat Hacking on equal machines.
Spies has already expressed that Hacking is ready to do well in WSBK today, and I believe it (He rode a POS Kawi in his wild card opportunities). I think Hacking is absolutely riding the wheels off of the Kawi 600 just to keep up with not only the Buell, but also with other 600s.
"On equal bikes he'd not have won that race, he'd have been a half second behind Hacking where he passed him." I'll add one further to your statement and to say riders of equal skill.
That being said, equal bikes and equal riders doesn't necessarily mean everything is equal.
Minute differences in throttle & brake application, as well as line selection occur on the track that aren't readily discernable to the viewer and may in fact only be discernable to the riders.
Also if the 1125 has the advantage "huge" that people claim, why haven't any of the rest of them podiumed?? They are being piloted by very skilled riders, yet the best finish other the Slick has been 4th.
1:31 to 1:35, Hacking goofed (misjudged) plain and simple. Last lap and he left the door ajar and Danny stuck his foot in and forced him wide. Eslick as good as Hacking? Maybe...maybe not, but he knew a mistake/opportunity when he saw it and took advantage of it.
Was there any controversy when any of these other riders beat Hacking?
The race today was great," said Hacking. "We were pushing hard the entire race. I was stronger on this side of the race track and Danny was stronger back there in the back and it just made out for a really good race, close racing. I put everything I had into the last couple laps there and I thought I had the door closed enough. He muscled his way in there and made a clean pass. I had made that pass before and there were no hard feelings. He rode a great race, and we pulled away from everybody else this weekend.
+1 on Danny's thumbs up,mid wheelie,to Hacking in race 1. They are both aggressive riders, and seem to have a mutual respect. Looking beyond all the naysayers,and simple-minded "displacement advantage" crowd---this is some VERY exciting racing.I,for one,think DMG is doing great things for motorcycle racing
i think the people are getting confused with the model designation. The 1125RR is just a 1125R with the extra fiddly bits.
Just the same as if you bought the bike from a parts installer. I think the import guys are also upset bc every Buell rider can get the ubber secret factory race bike.
"Eslick is doing a great job. He's no Hacking yet, maybe someday soon. On equal bikes he'd not have won that race, he'd have been a half second behind Hacking where he passed him."
That is pure baloney. Why do you feel the need to make stuff up like that? The facts clearly demonstrate otherwise.
Good for Yoshimura, but I think that bike is vaporware. It won't pass emissions, so it won't be street legal. If they want to sell it as a race bike, whoop-de-doo. It doesn't seem any better prepped than anyone else's Superbike likely already is. So, it would be a good "competitor" to the XB1125RR. But the XB appears to come with more "real" race parts, like bodywork & mags.
I'd bet that a lot of the folks that race Superstock-spec bikes in Superbike do it that way because its cheaper, and they can run in two paying classes with one bike. If you blow all your money on a Superbike, you can run in one class.
The point is, AMA has a rule that does not make a lot of sense in a practical situation, but that does not enter into Al's mind when the rider is quoting the rule book. Al just ignores the written rule in favor of what he thinks the rider is "supposed to do".
You are not supposed to look behind you, so you don't know exactly where the faster riders are. You can't ride your line, and go really slow, or you will probably get rear ended. If you ride off the racing line, you are breaking the rules. It's a tough rule to follow while letting the other riders pass.
In practicality, you just get off your line and get the hell out of the way, which is what Al was saying. However, due to his new job, one would think that Al would have enough respect for the rule book to try to work through the situation from a different perspective.
As an interesting aside, Al taught me the definition of "cheater marks" when helping me to mill my YSR cylinder in 1992. He was a good guy to me when I was just a punk kid wanting to hang around the "scene".
Johnny Rock Page talks about the confrontation his reality show video crew caught at Mid-Ohio and says he did not set up the confrontation on purpose. (This original, copyrighted material may not be copied, cut and pasted, published or otherwise reproduced in any way in any medium, which means, don’t post this on another website or BBS. If you want somebody else to see this, send them a link or post a link to this page.)
Davie Stone: Did you try to get TV time (by racing the leaders as you were lapped)? Johnny Rock Page: Absolutely not. I was racing as hard as I could. I was in 20th position and in the money. When I saw the blue flag I knew someone was coming. Just not when they were coming. In the section that I was going into there was only one line. When I did have the opportunity to swing out wide Hayes went under me and there was no one else sticking a wheel in, so I went back in line to complete the hard left corner and next corner.
DS: It looked like you were trying to hang with Hayes. JRP: Hayes was not faster than me by much going through the turns. Only in the straights. Once out of the turns Yates passed me and Hayes gapped me.
DS: Did you pre-meditate being set up with a microphone, etc. when you showed up at tech? JRP: Absolutely not. Once in the pits we always mic me up and they start the cameras rolling. I was excited that I finished in the money and we wanted to get it on film along with the fans. I had no idea that I was in trouble.
DS: Why was your bike in the tech garage? JRP: They impounded it and kept me in the garage for almost two hours.
DS: People are thinking that you pre-meditated the camera and confrontation. JRP: Absolutely not. We always have the camera rolling and I was talking to fans with the camera on me when I was hauled off to tech. We just kept it rolling.
DS: What happen before the youtube video? Was there more to the story and did you do something that pissed-off Al? JRP: That is the beginning of the confrontation with Al. It surprised the hell out of me and I wish that I would have said more. But I was shocked and along with the threats scared for my future in AMA racing.
Editor's note: Davie Stone interviewed Johnny Rock Page for his own website and gave Roadracingworld.com permission to re-post it here.
(This original, copyrighted material may not be copied, cut and pasted, published or otherwise reproduced in any way in any medium, which means, don’t post this on another website or BBS. If you want somebody else to see this, send them a link or post a link to this page.)
Davie Stone: Did you try to get TV time (by racing the leaders as you were lapped)? Johnny Rock Page: Absolutely not. I was racing as hard as I could. I was in 20th position and in the money.
Uh, he was up by over 20 seconds to the next rider with a couple laps to go. JRP is full of shit.
DS: It looked like you were trying to hang with Hayes. JRP: Hayes was not faster than me by much going through the turns. Only in the straights. Once out of the turns Yates passed me and Hayes gapped me.
Uh, a guy getting lapped in a 21 lap race is slower EVERYWHERE on the track. Give me a break.
Editor's note: Davie Stone interviewed Johnny Rock Page for his own website.
"Not faster in the turns.." This guy is an egotist on crack. He held these guys up in the corners and then had nearly the same power so they couldn't get by on the straights. What a joke. It sucks that somebody like this gets Ludington in trouble.
ludington got himself in trouble with the threat of technical dq in the case of if they(DMG) didn't do something to jrp. everything else could of gotten him (ludington) by due to enthusiasm. jmo. tim
