| Author | Message | ||
     Marcodesade |
Hi guys. I have an 08 R, and last summer the bike's temps got pretty bad. I was regularly running coolant temps at over 200 - 210 F, and the frame temp was often downright painful. I have to admit I use my bike as a commuter, which includes a great deal of stop & go driving in the city, complete with plenty of traffic lights. So I do know I'm going to be dealing with some heat, but I want to minimize it --- particularly the scalding I get on my thighs from the frame. I'd like some advice --- and particularly feedback from people who have actually installed fixes on 08 bikes. One fix I've seen mentioned is to install the Buell 09 heat shield on the 08 bike, at a cost of about $50 plus installation. I've read that some people were surprised at the small amount of coverage provided, but I haven't seen anything about whether it WORKS (which is the single thing I care about). Can someone who has actually installed the Buell product on an 08 comment please? Another solution is an aftermarket heat barrier, such as the one available for about $60 at American Sport Bike: http://http://www.americansportbike.com/shoponline /ccp0-prodshow/16130.html This appears to be a full-sized heat blanket. Has anyone installed this on an 08? Al_Lighton, can you provide some feedback on this --- maybe even a comparison between this blanket and the Buell shield? And finally, I've read a lot of your comments about Water Wetter. Is this product helpful for a (so far) street-only machine? Also, how complicated is it to add the stuff in? Do I need to flush the radiator? Thanks in advance! | ||
| Dtx |
I have heard the one that Al sells provides more "coverage" then the Buell part. | ||
| Marcodesade |
I've heard the same, which in theory might produce a better result (unless the Buell product was thicker or somehow more efficient. And I have never been anything but completely satisfied with my dealings with American Sport Bike. Still, I really want to hear actual experiences before I choose something I'm stuck with for maybe another 12000 miles (I'm not far off the first 12K, and I hear those are the best intervals for doing this, since the engine needs to be rotated for the scheduled service anyway). | ||
| Luisemilio25r |
Has anyone tried to ceramic coat the inside walls of the frame? would that eve be possible? | ||
| S1125r |
I used the product that Al sells and it's good. However, the reality is that the bike runs hot and your frame will eventually heat up, even with the reflective material in place. Would I spend $60 on it? Yes, because it really helps when the bike is moving, and I even put some on the bottom of my seat. Would I get the Buell 09 heatshield for an 08? Not a chance. I've also got the ceramic coated headers, which have helped a bit as well. Edit: If you are really worried about the heat transfer to your legs you could get the gripskins which puts a rubber layer between you and the frame. (Message edited by s1125r on July 18, 2009) | ||
| Marcodesade |
Thanks, s1125r. I do realize the bike runs hot. But I would like to reduce that at least a little. I would eventually like to coat my headers --- and maybe even my midpipe (see my thread on my new Jardine exhaust), but now we're talking about hundreds, rather than tens, of dollars. I'd like to see what I can do on the cheap first. How thick are the gripskins? I'm not really "worried" about the heat, but I'd like to be a little more comfortable, and my legs are where I'm feeling it. Anyone else care to share your experience with the various heat shields? How about my questions on Water Wetter (above)? | ||
| Badlionsfan |
The reflashes have done a lot to make these run cooler. Add a little water wetter to the coolant and you'll be good to go. I don't notice much more heat with my 1125r than I did with my cityX. | ||
| Sportster_mann |
I bought a couple of 12 volt PC fans that I was going to fit under the seat ( to move the hot air round ) - there appears to be room for them. But this year I don't seem to have had a problem with heat so have not tried to do it yet. | ||
| Al_lighton |
I have all three items on the shop 1125R (silver ceramic coated headers, Thermotec lined frame, gripskin Frame pads). There is no doubt that my leg is the happier for it, but I can't quantify the temperature differences, or even say with great certainty which component is doing the most. There is no doubt that having silver surfaces on both the header and the frame help...both the emmissivity and absorbtivity factors in the radiation heat transfer equation are linear terms, and color and smooth surfaces can easily fave factors that 2-3 times lower than black rough surfaces. Much of the frame heating is directly related to radiative coupling between the rear header and the frame. But the design of the bike also dumps the radiator heat into the frame tunnel, and the thermotec material does add additional thermal resistance between that heat and the frame. The stuff that Buell is using on the 09's (Aerogel, I've heard....cool stuff) has higher thermal resistance, but has much less coverage. Putting the stuff on is a PITA..you really need to pivot the engine to install either the coated headers or the Thermotec heat barrier. Considerably more work than pivoting an XB engine down, but not too bad. The snakeskin gripskins are .125" thick. They are more efficient thermally than the .04 thick Fusion gripskins. Al | ||
| Unibear12r |
I've been attacking this in small steps. My issue is the fuel boiling which is also something I can quantify better than subjective heat. Changing to a 80/20 coolant mix made a big change for the better. I added Water Wetter also at the same time but couldn't say if that truly helps. I picked up some Thremotec from AL but I've delayed putting it on yet due to the PITA and wanting to think this through. I believe it will be superior to the BMC item do to the greater area it can cover and it's reflective coating. You might be able to double it in the right places also. Having both an 1125 and a XB side by side has allowed me to do a lot of playing and thinking. Sportster mann is right on the money. The only difference between the two is the XB's frame fan. While it is there to cool the heads and fuel rail it also cools the inside of the frame by drafting in outside air. The object would be to get the air from the frame tunnel to exhaust out over the rear fender like the XB. This is the time a right side scoop would help!!! (Friendly shot AL  ) A fresh air duct directed through the pods and into the frame tunnel would work wonders here. Or something like the engine air induction but mounted to the fork side of the pods to direct more fresh air to the frame tunnel instead of down the front of the engine. Simpler and cost effective but not quite as good as a fan I'd bet. (Al you are a fabricating genus- hint-hint ) Coating the pipes looks good but wouldn't help much IMHO. Wrapping the pipes, but only as far as the end of the heat shield in back and to just under the pod in front would be better I'd think. Give the heat someplace to run to and radiate (if that would work, it's a long shot at best, and for all I know might be detrimental to something). One thing I would disagree on is how much of the radiator air goes up into the frame tunnel. It appears most of it blows out the fans to form the lower wall of fresh air induction scoop (pods & triple tree being the others) and then dissipates mostly down and under the bike. I'm guessing that the radiator air would be cooler than what's trapped in the frame tunnel, especially when stopped. | ||
| Unibear12r |
The radiator air that dumps out behind the fans doesn't appear to have any way to flow straight up to the dead air space up under the air box and at the top of the fuel frame. Most of the air at the high pressure air induction zone appears to have to fight structures that want to force air down. It appears that the best spot to pick up air for the upper part of the frame is taken by the air induction itself. Perhaps a larger, wider, lower induction tube that would allow air to blow up around the outside of, and yet still feed, the upper tube would help solve the problem. | ||
| Blake |
Just a note on the side. Maybe someone somewhere will take interest. Satellite earth station antennas require a very accurate surface contour be maintained in order to ensure the integrity of communications links. Besides gravity and wind, one of the major challenges for military antennas, the only ones typically not painted white, but instead tan or green, is the differential thermal distortion caused by the 1,000+ Watts/m2 of incident solar energy that antennas must endure during daytime operation. No big difference between tan and white you are probably thinking right? The difference is frightening! Surface temperature of two identical aluminum (facesheets and honeycomb core) reflector panels sitting outside in the afternoon sun, one painted with diffusive (flat) white, the other with diffusive desert tan read respectively 111oF, and 156F. Aluminum expands quite nicely when heated. +1 for the Texas Summer sun, 0 for desert tan antenna panel. I don't know how much frame heating of the 1125 may be due to radiant heating from engine and/or headers and how much may be from convection (hot air contacting frame), but much of it is likely from radiant heating. I could be wrong, but I would be very surprised that if someone were willing to coat the inboard (engine side) surfaces of their frame with a nice 99% reflective (visible and IR) white paint, that the issue of frame/fuel heating would be significantly mitigated. I've not noticed any such issue on my '09 Uly even riding in 100o+F Texas Summer days, but if I owned an 1125R or 1125CR and noticed such an issue, I'd be trying the white paint. It's too easy not too. One other note: Polished metal headers don't radiate heat hardly at all. Chrome pipes aren't just for bling it seems. (Message edited by Blake on July 18, 2009) | ||
| Blazin_buell |
I've done a couple of heat related issues so far. First was wrapping the headers and mid pipe of my D&D. Then I added Watter Wetter and that's simple to do since you don't have to flush. The wetter alone dropped my CT an average of 12- 15deg. It's been 105-112 for the last three weeks where I live and on the hwy CT is around 189-195, in city traffic it has crreeped up to 201. I'll eventually get the TecSpec for the outside of the frame and once I hit the 12k service( another 2k) I'll decide which way to go on the inside of the frame. | ||
| Court |
I made a rare (for me) ride without my Aerostich the other day and when I got home snapped (trust me, you don't want to see them) photos of my right leg which was done to about the same state as a Spark's filet at medium rare. Lesson learned. . . wear the Aerostich. Unfortunately I have two Aerostiches in for repair . . . . for melted zippers I'd say there is a great market for an innovative product. | ||
| Teddagreek |
Swain Tech sprays theirs on Molten, Its a true ceramic... White Lightning is pretty darn thick.. I always thought if you the time is would be a good mod to have sprayed on the inner side of the frame..  | ||
| Blake |
Simple white paint may be more effective. | ||
| Socoken |
Adding fuel and timing has dropped my typical operating temps by 10 degrees or better. | ||
| Puredrive |
Are you guys running the OEM oil? I bet if you switch to Amsoil it will drop the CT temps. On my turbo GTI I ran Pentosynth which is a german made oil..I switched over to Amsoil and my oiltemp dropped 10-15 deg in the dead of the summer here in TX. Its was 98F or so today..And I rode in bumper to bumper traffic. saw an AT of 131F and CT of 225F while sitting in traffic. not sure how accurate the AT 131F was.. BTW..my first ride in the 1125 CR..Put about 60+ miles this afternoon. | ||
| Sportster_mann |
I think the major problem is heat dissipation when stationary or in slow moving traffic - heat builds up as there is no cooling airflow and insulation will just make things worse. That's why in a previous thread I asked if anybody knew if there is any wind tunnel data available as I wanted to try ways of getting the heat out from the bike - I thought fans under the seat with some type of "exhaust" ports may be the way to go - but I do not want to compromise the aerodynamics of the bike - it could effect handling ... | ||
| Bearly |
Ride faster, be cooler!  oh I like the sound of that! | ||
| Unibear12r |
Blow the exhaust out over the rear fender like the XBs. It dosn't cause them any problems. | ||
| Unibear12r |
Blake So are you saying that a proper white paint would be better than a foil reflector? Such as on the Thermotec? I understand that all white pigment is not the same even if it looks so to us. I would think that the insulation on the Thermotec would be an advantage for slowing the heat transfer (not insulating) and allowing the frame to radiate a higher percentage of the incoming heat to the outside in real time. +1 on your comments on convection vs. radiation. I believe both to be significant players here. Court A simple piece of AL foil can be attached under the right rear screw of the air box. Make it big enough to cover the entire gap between the seat and frame there. Form it out against the seat and frame for air flow around the head. Paint the outside flat black so as to not be noticed through the crack. Stops the hot air jet there and reflects some of the heat. Takes a bit more effort but the same can be done over the top of the shock and fan which will direct all of the fan air down the tunnel to the rear fender. Keeps the seat and everything under the seat much cooler. And no air blasting out from under the seat sides. Cheap, effective and lasting. Sadly I didn't figure that out until after my 7500 mile trip in 06. I had the BBQ right leg bad. | ||
| Luisemilio25r |
My 12k service is just around the corner and I'm planning in performing it my self. Also I am planning in painting the frame black. What if I have the inner walls of the frame ceramic coated with a white finish? Anyone think it would help preventing some of the heat transfer from the exhaust? May be another color like polished? Any input would be appreciated. | ||
| Sportster_mann |
Apart from the "personal protection" point, I do not see the logic from shielding the frame, surely you need to dissipate the heat, not reflect it back into the engine - the heat really needs to be extracted to remove it, I think we would all be better insulating ourselves on the outside rather than giving the heat nowhere to go by insulating the inside of the frame, if heat does become a problem then I will be fitting gripskins or such like to the outside of the frame ... (Message edited by sportster_mann on July 24, 2009) |
