| Author | Message | ||
     Spatten1 |
Well said Spike. Hey, DMG already looks to be in the pocket of Buell/HD (to the world outside of BadWeb), this will not help. It's not new for the sanctioning bodies to ignore rules for one mfg. or the other. Look at the Harley superbike or the Foggy Petronas. It ain't right to hold manufacturers to different standards, but it seems to happen. I'm with Liquor, the DMG series is nearly unbearable. I don't watch it either, it's too frustrating. WSBK is quickly becoming the only thing interesting to me. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Rossi doesn't ride an R1, sir, he rides an M1, you're right, my bad. Serious question, no smart ass-ness intended, just wanna know where you're coming from. If you don't care tho, why talk or worry about it? | ||
| Blake |
I'm at a loss. Buell is legitimately providing its first ever superbike in race prepped form for privateers and some people don't like that they are doing so? Did you just not hear the same news that I did, that Buell is releasing what they hope will be a contender in Superbike racing? Hello! WTF is wrong with some of you people? Apparently you've never heard of HRC or Ducati Corse or any of the other FACTORY racing operations whose primary function is to provide race-ready superbike class machines to their preferred racing teams. Are they breaking the rules? Do you somehow imagine that the factory bikes show up in street trim from HRC or Ducati Corsa? The only difference between the big factory efforts and what Buell is doing with the 1125R ==>> 1125RR is that the big factory racing organizations just don't advertise what they do, and they don't sell their factory race-prepped bikes to privateers. Buell is light years ahead in their ethics and in honoring the intent and letter of the rules compared to the factory teams. Some of you people truly bewilder me with how utterly indoctrinated you are by the Japan Inc propaganda. Wake up! Did you hear? Buell is building an actual Superbike racer! If that doesn't get you enthused, then why are you here? | ||
| Liquorwhere |
a) It is only a 1125r with some catalogue available parts bolted on/ in at the factory. b) Press releases tend to be a little dramatic, see above. c) Reliability and ride quality issues that race bikes do not have to be concerned with. d) Facepalm e) All of the above. i don't think you get what I writing, so I will try once more and then I am done, there are MANY BIKES from MANY MANUFACTURERS that will out perform the 1125R, stock. That is a fact, that bike is a huge step forward for Buell, and after I rode it I was impressed with it, but a 1098 or 1198 will put its dick in the dirt...so will a ZX10, GSXR1000, CBR1000, Aprilia RSV1000 or V4, so, again, my point is that all of these bikes have more power, higher rev limit, even the twins!! so don't start with the I4 BS, and that Buell with the Rotax motor is detuned, the suspension is no where near what it could or should be, and this RR bike is probably much closer to the stock versions of the rest of that list, much more powerful, probably handles superbly with that suspension, the pipe doesn't have to be on that bike when it is sold, it can be added, the ECM similar to the XBRR, has a higher rev limiter, different internal parts that SHOULD'VE been on the 1125R already, and they want $40 grand for it. Truly I like the bike, I do, I am sure it is very kick ass to ride, but nothing close to that will ever see the light of day for street use as long as HD owns Buell. So hopefully that clears that up, but probably not, someone here still wants a NASCAR Toyota...so probably not.....anyway, gentleman, have a great day, hope the weather is good where all of you are at so you can go for a ride.... | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Well said Blake. On that note, I'm going to bed. 22 hours up on 4 hrs sleep yesterday and Badlionsfan is gettin cranky. Fight nice everyone, nite nite! | ||
| Greenlantern |
Well apparently, BMC blatantly disregarded the rules and decided to take a multi million dollar gamble that everyone else in the racing world would be caught napping. Hey in this economy, Long odds as R.E. Lee would say require long chances. You would think that Mr. Buell would have learned from the whole AMA formula racing debacle and presented his plans openly to the sanctioning body for approval before proceeding with his diabolical scheme?!? You would also think that the other manufacturers would have some knowledge of these events transpiring. Damn those corporate massage weekend getaways! I guess the man with a 200 year plan figured 2009/2010 was only 2 years and decided to skip them? The internet, it's not just for porn anymore!  | ||
| Ceejay |
the extra R equals a stock 1125r assembled with homologated components by Buell racing to be ridden on a track. I can go out and purchase an 1125r from AD farrows for 12 grand and buy BPF kit, a homologated rear shock, mag wheels, exhaust, etc. and have it all assembled by AD Farrow(representing Buell) to which I can race it in AMA superbike. How are the two any different(other than maybe cost)? Do you think Buell hasn't been in direct contact with AMA/DMG in order to make sure this was completely within the rules? | ||
| Moxnix |
Most privateers who were peers of The Erik three decades ago show up for old timers banquets or a photo op at a vintage race. What is "our" former privateer doing? Huh. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Having competed in AMA racing...I will guarantee you the AMA tech guys have been all over the new bike from spec parts to final assembly...it definately is not a case of "this is ok with you guys ain't it...nudge-nudge..wink-wink" | ||
| Spike |
Here's how you can tell something is unusual with this situation- Scott and I are in agreement.
To be clear- I'm *way* excited that Buell is taking a serious step into Superbike racing. I would just prefer that they do it in accordance with the Superbike rules. As someone else pointed out- whether Buell sold the 1125R and a kit of parts or whether they sold the 1125RR with the parts already installed are simply two different means to the same end. I agree with that. However, one means follows the letter of the AMA Superbike rules and the other does not. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I don't see the issue. Let's assume I'm a total mess with a wrench. So I go buy an 1125R, and send it over to my neighborhood Buell dealer to have them install all the Buell race parts and get the thing dialed in and tuned up for me. My good buddy, who is also not good with a wrench, decides he wants to race with me on an 1125R as well. So he goes to his Buell dealer and buys an 1125RR - the bike is identical to mine, but came that way from the factory - so in a sense, the Factory played the role as the "race prepper and parts installer" instead of myself or some other shop. I really don't see a difference in buying an 1125RR or buying a GSX-R1000 and getting the homoligation kit with it. In the end, neither bike is road legal, but both are based, in equal terms, on factory machines. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Question is, how's this going to help in terms of sales dollars? I think this is cool as hell, but along with the XBrr, it's out of reach for me unless they make some sort of street legal RR | ||
| Glitch |
Question is, how's this going to help in terms of sales dollars? Win on Sunday, sell on Monday | ||
| Liquorwhere |
I really don't see a difference in buying an 1125RR or buying a GSX-R1000 and getting the homoligation kit with it. In the end, neither bike is road legal, but both are based, in equal terms, on factory machines. Your bike has an on road title, and his bike has an off road only title, so....your bike can be converted back and you can ride it on the street, will all the performance upgrades you like, his cannot...the GSXR can be converted back and run on the street...the 1125RR cannot, whether it is in line with AMA/DMG rules or not, truly I could care less, but you cannot buy this bike, put the street bodywork and lights on it and then ride it, you can with a 1198R, 1198S, GSXR, ZX, CBR, this list goes on and on....to answer Blake's question...see above...if they intend to race it in WSBK, which I don't think will homologate this bike and approve it because it is not a modified street bike, meaning on road title..Ceejay...and Blake...I would be very happy to see them on the world stage, and I am elated that they are building something better than the year before....make it available to me, or you, so you can buy it and ride it home, with all the same performance mods, minus exhaust, which is understandable, just like the Aprilia RSV Factory, and I would buy one. So there ya go. (Message edited by liquorwhere on July 16, 2009) | ||
| Greenlantern |
there are MANY BIKES from MANY MANUFACTURERS that will out perform the 1125R, stock. That is a fact, that bike is a huge step forward for Buell, and after I rode it I was impressed with it, but a 1098 or 1198 will put its dick in the dirt...so will a ZX10, GSXR1000, CBR1000, Aprilia RSV1000 or V4, so, again, my point is that all of these bikes have more power, higher rev limit, even the twins!! They also ( in most cases) have a decades long head start in the R&D and refinement process on BMC. With a swipe of some suit's pen, BMC could mass produce the revolutionary motorcycle that you are shocked is not readily available. What happens if it is at best a total sales flop even at more reasonable prices (say $15,000 -$20,00 range)? What if it at worst it has serious design /reliability issues that entail mass recalls or litigation? The Big 4 would grumble but still be in business at the end of the day as their size/volume and business models are at the stage that they can endure a flub or 3 ( see Honda's chopper or $15,000 dollar scooter). BMC on the other hand would not have a very good go of it. I do not think major recovery/revamp of operations is in the 200 year plan. You have to walk before you can run. Buell has been walking pretty briskly from the start . Now they are at a steady jog. I CAN'T wait for the starting pistol to fire, but understand why I DO. | ||
| Glitch |
Other than lights, mirrors, warning stickers, epa muffler, is keeping this bike from being street legal? | ||
| Xl1200r |
Your bike has a on road title, and his bike has an off road only title, so....your bike can be converted back and you can ride it on the street, will all the performance upgrades you like, his cannot...the GSXR can be converted back and run on the street...the 1125RR cannot, whether it is in line with AMA/DMG rules or not, truly I could care less, but you cannot buy this bike, put the street bodywork and lights on it and then ride it, you can with a 1198R, 1198S, GSXR, ZX, CBR, this list goes on and on.... But the bottom line is niether bike is road legal in race trim. None will pass any inspection due to noise and fueling emissions, lighting, etc. And while my buddy, or any other person with a homoligated Jap machine, could convert their bike back to street legal, the 1125RR would take nothing more than a box of parts to convert to street legal as well. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Glitch - I'm sure the fueling on the engine isn't even close to EPA standards. Also, keep in mind that Street Legal and Streetable aren't the same thing. Race engine get torn down every weekend - do you want to be doing that on your street bike? | ||
| Dobieg2002 |
Your bike has an on road title, and his bike has an off road only title, so....your bike can be converted back and you can ride it on the street, will all the performance upgrades you like, his cannot...the GSXR can be converted back and run on the street...the 1125RR cannot, whether it is in line with AMA/DMG rules or not, truly I could care less, but you cannot buy this bike, put the street bodywork and lights on it and then ride it, you can with a 1198R, 1198S, GSXR, ZX, CBR, this list goes on and on.... If it has a VIN and all the correct parts it can be made to be street legal with an inspection. I've seen it done with Dirt bikes, Choppers, salvage bikes, etc... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Court, you are a genius.
Spike and Liquorwhere, I get it. You want a ruined streetbike anyone can buy off the dealer shelf. Except its not really off the shelf, as you will go and change the ECM and Exhaust before you burn up the first tank of gas. Oh, and you may have to add the steering damper, and you will certainly have to respring and revalve the suspension for your weight and riding style. And safety wire everything. And add many and sundary quick disconnects for rational pit stops. And frame sliders. And race body work. Oh, but thats still more stock then an 1125RR, which comes out of the box with much of the stuff already "race prepped". We understand, but the rules in totality are the rules. If they could have written the whole rule book in one sentence, they would have. They didn't, and you can't interpret one sentence and be right, no matter how clear it looks. Trojan, I'm guessing the factory has limited bandwidth, and a business plan justifying their investment that goes down a specific path. They must believe that AMA classes are the right place to start for an American sportbike. Sounds reasonable to me. Why don't you start up a US Race team and run the AMA series? Surely with your European experience and insights you could mop up the field and put us unenlightened yanks in our place once and for all  Also, my guess is that the cranks in those superbike imports didn't even come from the same factory as the stock parts came from, much less represent the same part, though you would not be able to prove it in a tech teardown. So an 1125RR is far closer to an 1125R then a GSXR-1000 is to a GSXR-1000, if you know what I mean... | ||
| Spatten1 |
Spike, that was very funny! Don't forget Mladin's crank disqualification. Same dimensions. Same metalurgy. Same weight. different font on the serial number. Some of you same guys said that he should have been DQ'd regardless of the function of the crank, just because it broke the most literal interpretation of the rules. Now we have a similar situation and I'm hearing arguments that the letter of the rules does not matter, just the final product. Hell, make the race kit like everyone else, sell it cheap, buy back the unneeded stock parts to help the privateers' budget, done. Same results and it meets the rules. Must be something we don't know here. Maybe Court is right, because this situation seems catywompus. | ||
| Spike |
You do not. I do not want a "ruined streetbike". Put that straw man back where you found him. I simply want Buell to play by the rules as they are written. | ||
| Dobieg2002 |
I just read the rules... http://amaproracing.com/assets/RR_Rules_2009.pdf read section 2 The 1125R is homologated. All the modifications on the 1125RR are legal. If they would have just stated 1125R (with Race kit) everything would be fine. The way I look at it is: Buell is just throwing in a stock 1125R with their 40k race kit with free professional installation no less.  Now if they would have modified the displacement to 1190, changed the outer or inner fork tubes, and not released a street version then it would be illegal. | ||
| Dbird29 |
Nothing like politics to knock Politics off the top topics. Does Hexangler's attempt at censorship apply to the new 1125RR?  | ||
| Indy_bueller |
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| Reepicheep |
Lots of sound and fury over what amounts to a part number. "1125RR" is the part number for an 1125R with pre-installed race parts. The neutral sanctioning body has meticously reviewed the machine, and declared it legal (without an "*") for the class. Get over it. Suzuki should not have been disqualified for the wrong font on their crank. They should be disqualified for using non production cranks on the race bikes if the rules call for stock cranks. A non production part that fits the stock footprint, but that goes through special processes, uses special materials, and that gets special inspection, isn't a stock crank. How, pray tell, did the font change just for the race part on a single factory mold / stamping press? Are Suzuki presses now controlled by printer drivers and Microsoft Office? | ||
| G234146 |
 GO BUELL! | ||
| Spatten1 |
How, pray tell, did the font change just for the race part on a single factory mold / stamping press? Suzuki said it was an alternate supplier, that was in all their internal documentation etc. AMA said they didn't give a damn. When it came down to it, AMA seemed to say it's our leage and we can do what we want. Their press releases were late and ambiguious, and did not address Suzuki's claims, they ignored them. In reality, Mladin was probably being punished for having a big mouth and talking smack about DMG and AMA. That's life. | ||
| Bads1 |
Liquorwhere, Buell is making a bike from there production line that is intended for racing. Would it make you feel better if Honda or Suzuki would do the same thing??? I got news for you. They can if they want but won't because they won't give everyone the good stuff. Took Jordan till this year to get 80% of what the Yosh team gets. Thats still leaving out 20%. And yes the 1125R does run with the 1098. Just not the 1098R. Gets your facts straight. | ||
| Spike |
Just to keep this fun- That's totally different than a non production bike that fits the stock footprint but using different parts, right? |
