| Author | Message | ||
     Arkaybee |
Am on the road in the middle of nowhere that is Tonopah, NV. The '06 Uly has a new intermittent symptom. There is a slight loss of power as though only one cylinder is firing, accompanied by the check engine light cycling on and off rapidly. It lasts 5 to 20 seconds, sometimes repeating, sometimes not. There is no error code to check. I've pulled and reseated the new Magnacor plug wires, looked for shorts and bad connections, incl. battery. Road condition does not seem to be a factor. Called the Buell tech at my dealer, had no idea. Have service manual, but can find no reference to this. Long story, just trying to cover the bases | ||
| Etennuly |
I had similar problem last year. Check ECM plugs and wires. I could pick up on mine and make it quit for a while. When I got back I found one wire had rubbed through on the mount where the BAS was mounted before the recall deal where they moved it to the back. If I recall it was a yellow wire with red stripe(or similar, can't check it now). I don't have my manual here now, but I believe it was the wire to the number one coil. It would only do it when the bike was relatively hot, up hill pull, above 70 mph. It would go back to normal when backing off the throttle and remaining below 55 mph. It emulated 'run-skip' perfectly, only I knew the bike was not overheated. A piece of black electrical tape fixed it. You can unplug the ECM plugs and twist them one way or another to get them in new positions away from where they may be rubbing through each other. The insulative coating on the wires is pretty soft. | ||
| Teeps |
Skip spark mode causes the engine light to blink rapidly. And, you will feel the engine lose power. My Uly has done this several times. Usually when pulling a grade on the freeway. | ||
| 4_pete_sake |
I have the exact same thing going on right now. Mine is in the shop now. They previously tired to fix it and seemed to by replacing the O2 sensor. 2 weeks later, repeat. Now they are going through everything. No word yet. But what you described is me exactly.... Any news will be passed on... Cheers- | ||
| Teeps |
I think the ETS (engine temp sensor) is reporting inaccurate data, causing the ECM to think things are hotter than they really are. There is no way of knowing this for a fact short of replacing it or instrumenting the cylinder head with a thermocouple and taking an independent measurement. | ||
| Ksc12c |
I had a similar problem riding out to West Texas. The bike would go into slip spark mode,flashing checking light. I noticed some worn wires on the ECM connector. Check the Wires. | ||
| Etennuly |
The thing about "run-skip" is that the engine has to be incredibly hot to cause that. When mine did this 'up hill above 70mph fail mode' there was no way it was over heating. But the bike emulated overheat mode perfectly when the ECM wire was shorting out one coil. The flashy red dash light and cylinder miss is so misleading in this case. | ||
| Arkaybee |
Thanks, All. The exhaust valve actuator (?) on top of the air box is working and I can hear the valve moving in the can. The wires looked good at the ECM, but want a 2nd pair of eyes to look everything over. Drove all day yesterday to Grand Junction, CO w/o incident by keeping the RPM's around 3500. Will go over all of your suggestions with the Buell tech here @ GJHD/B as long as this doesn't take more than half a day. It's been 100 plus here in the lower elevations and will be 75 where we're heading. Now that I know I can manage the condition, I'd rather wait to get home. | ||
| Florida_lime |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/476528.html?1247752003 Welcome to the "club". | ||
| 4_pete_sake |
good news.... get my bike back tomorrow..... Bad Engine Temp Sensor.... replaced under warranty..... thank you.... anyway....just wanted to pass that on to "Arkaybee".... I didn't check to see what year yours is .. but worth a look... oh and my bike was popping a code for it... so hopefully yours will too.... Cheers- Pete | ||
| Florida_lime |
What code # did you have ?  | ||
| Etennuly |
SM says engine temp sensor code is 14. | ||
| Teeps |
2 weeks ago my Ulysses was skip sparking and it did not set a code. And, given the ambient conditions, it should not have been over heating (but who knows for sure.) If the DTC protocol is similar to S.A.E. standards; a faulty ETS may not set a code, if it's operating within design parameters. A DTC does not necessarily mean a faulty component. DTCs are usually, stored when the component circuit(s) is/are: open, shorted to ground, power, or another wire. | ||
| Florida_lime |
Teeps, I'm having a similar problem: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/476528.html?1247761757 No codes, until recently, but that may be a separate issue. I don't have any time to bring it to my not-so-local dealer, as I'm working 12 hour days until Monday. I haven't had much time to troubleshoot on my own, but nothing I do makes a difference. I can still get it to skip spark, but the dealer couldn't the last time it was there. It does seem worse now, so maybe they'll be able to duplicate the problem whenever I can get the bike to them -- 100 miles away.  | ||
| Teeps |
From your description in the other thread; my Uly is acting very similar. I've suspected something might be up the the ETS, on my bike, and the update by 4_pete_sake gives me reason to replace it. | ||
| 4_pete_sake |
Etennuly- where would I be look to tape the wires you mentioned above, or is there a specific page in the SM I could reference with a picture or description ??? I think it something I should just knock out for good measure... Thanks-pete | ||
| Florida_lime |
I believe Etennuly's wire wore through where the wires come out of the ECU, and start running down past where the original BAS was located. | ||
| Etennuly |
I believe Etennuly's wire wore through where the wires come out of the ECU, and start running down past where the original BAS was located. That is correct. The only time it would hang low enough was when the engine heat would let it hang loose. As near as I could figure it hung even looser as torque was applied. That wire just barely touched that bracket. It had one little silver sliver of wire minutely exposed. My bike had been doing the flashy run-skip intermittently for over a year. I could not prove anything to the dealer and they didn't ride it far enough to make it happen. Your problem could be the same kind of thing in a different place even. I have found that the insulation on these wires is pretty soft when they are warmed up. It could be a wire lying across an edge somewhere or two wires laid together and wearing through. I checked for months and isolated the problem to this one wire, it is the blue with orange stripe. In the SM it shows to be the rear coil primary wire, which made sense to me, one coil shorting out, hence one cylinder not firing while shorting. Once I taped it all was fine, until a few weeks ago. After a year of working fine that wire worked its way back to the same bracket and had worn the tape thin to where it did it again. That time I had it fixed in seconds. | ||
| 4_pete_sake |
Sorry lets dumb it down for all of us stupid folk.... ECM is under the seat correct??? Blue and Orange stripped wire runs from ECM??? sorry I have the SM and I am not afraid to try things out... but while under warranty and while I have a great dealership here willing to take care of me ... but I still want to do this and other things along the way so I can I make the jump when warranty is up... thanks and I hope I have not hijacked this thread!!!??? | ||
| Xbimmer |
All right I have to put my $.02 in. I've been going nuts trying to identify a repeated pattern when my idiot light starts flashing, which it's been doing a lot the last few weeks. Though it's been HOT out here recently (it's 104 out there right now...) I've ridden in much hotter temps with no skip-spark problems, until lately. Only codes thrown were 13 (ox sensor) and/or 21 (interactive muffler control). Replaced O2 sensor, ran better but still skip-sparked. Lubed the muffler valve, actuator moved better but still skip-sparked. Changed back to 20/50 oil, no difference. ECM was still telling me it was hot at freeway speeds, sometimes in town. Fan's been doing just fine, screaming along happily. Took Etennuly's advice and scoured for broken wires, nothing to be seen. Wiggled them around with a DVOM plugged in between the ETS connector up top and the Gray/9 terminal at the ECM plug, no intermittents. Replaced the intake seals, ran very much better, at least until it skip-sparked... Doing a resistance check of the ETS at ambient room temp showed it to be just fine... While removing my CA EVAP canister while replacing the intake seals I noticed granules falling out of the vent hose at the front. I thought geez what now? Yesterday I pulled the line to the intake and plugged it. For 60 miles in 90 deg weather, no skip-spark, and far less pinging! Pulled over, reattached the line, skip-sparking within 5 miles... maybe I was on to something finally. Maybe the intake was sucking pieces of charcoal into the cylinder doing who knows what to cause an overheat condition. Plugged the line again, back to great running. Flogged it for another 30 miles then skip-spark... Today I decided to try a new angle. Removed the battery ground strap from the frame and cleaned and reattached it with a star washer. Did the same to the gang-of-three grounds just forward of the fuse box. Went for a 30 mile ride in 100+ weather, at speeds above 90, freeway blasts, in town, air outside so freaking hot it hurt to keep the face shield open. Not one skip-spark, and boy did I try to get it to. Of course, I probably just hexed myself... | ||
| Firstbatch |
Virtually every XB Buell owner should check and renew all the grounds. They are so frequently the culprit in many of the issues people report. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Virtually every XB Buell owner should check and renew all the grounds. They are so frequently the culprit in many of the issues people report. I'm becoming a believer in that. Been poring over the Service Manual, lots of numbered ground points in the schematics. Is there a list somewhere of where those points are physically located?  | ||
| Florida_lime |
Only codes thrown were 13 (ox sensor) and/or 21 (interactive muffler control). I've had the 21 code also. Sounds exactly like my running problems, except I don't have the California EVAP system on my bike.(And I lost it off my KTM and Ducati  ) I guess I'll check the grounds next. Plus it's been starting with less hesitation than ever recently, too.  | ||
| Etennuly |
Well mine is back also. I am starting to think about replacing the whole wiring harness, the engine temp sensor, and the ECM. Bike ran perfectly for about the first 150 miles. Just as we got to the most fun part, the start of the Cherohala from the South, the bastard started the flashy/run/skip.  What a way to ruin another otherwise great ride. It made it over the top at no more than 55 mph(I know.....the speed limit is 45). Turning the throttle at all above that, would make it instantly do it's trick. We stopped at the top at a pull out, I removed the seat, unplugged the ECM, twisted each plug one revolution, reinserted each plug and it didn't do it for another eighty miles. As I was nearing home I had to stop to purchase a new camera. The Chinese built piece of shit camera that I have been using for a couple of years broke yesterday also. I just wanted to get some pictures for the "New Game" thread. The on/off button broke off and fell back into the camera. I was leaving the third store, where I finally found another compatible piece of shit made in China camera, when the friggen presets on the Uly went away again!! In the past few months, add that to a new GE refrigerator, that I had to rebuild the chinese(screw it, I will not even capitalize that name anymore) circulation fan system. This was after the service guys spent four months replacing stuff to have it fail again. And the "American', new kitchen range that has had more time and money spent on it than it's original price. It still doesn't work correctly while they await parts from china. And the service guy, who ripped the vinyl flooring in my kitchen moving that piece of crap in and out, oddly, I haven't heard back from them in months. I'm telling ya, if it weren't for stuff being so worn out I would buy things that I need only from antique shops. This china crap has to stop. It may be ok in low end items but when you buy the upper end products from a main line American company and get chinese failed products, it is becoming unacceptable. Completely unacceptable. While I'm on a rant, Hillery is at it again. She was front and center on the am news giving away Nuclear Plants to India. She may be selling them, but the secrets and by products going to a country with that large of a population will come back to bite us in the ass in the next decade, with our own products. GO Hillary, give it all to India the way you and Billy did to china in the nineties!  Where are our wiring harness'es made? And our ECM, and our engine temperature sensor? Sorry everyone I am just overflowing with enthusiasm for our present, and our near future. When it comes to these products that I have purchased, and I stick my head up my ass in doing it, I don't need help sticking my head up someone else's ass. I will stay with my own flavor.....thank you. My apologies to those reading this whom are not involved in making the decisions to purchase important components from china, for my being a bit foul of language and demeanor. To those of you who are giving away the heart and strength of our country.....read it twice. During the cold war period imaginations always ran wild about how the Communists could topple Democracy. The Bond movies always looked at that. Star Wars (armed satellites), Electro Magnetic Pulse, WMD, Nuclear Devices, so many things that would wipe out either side. I guess economic undermining of a country through dependency on weak products, isn't high on the list of things that make a romantic, exciting novel. Rant over for now.....sorry I didn't want to send this thread to the backfire board.....so don't respond to my rant, just the topic please. | ||
| Gamdh |
I had that happen once time last August. It was hot and we were riding pretty hard... half way up Richard B Russell and it started that same thing. Stopped at the top checked wires etc... didn't find anything. It never happened again until a couple of months ago. I had to rotate the engine to fix the bolt on the Center Tie Bar mount. Put everything back together.. cleaned electrical plugs etc.... Rode it to work and on the way home.. riding up a pretty good uphill grade.. near the top I rolled on the throttle and it started that crap again....I was able to duplicate it the next two days (Outside temp was only about 78 so I new it was not overheating). I figured I messed something up when I put everything back together. I pulled the airbox so I could access the wiring... I unplugged the wire to the Temp Sensor from the rear cylinder. cleaned it up again and then made sure it was really securely plugged in.... I have not been able to duplicate the issue since I did that (and that includes riding the same rode the same way when it was 99 and Humid here)? I was all set to replace the sensor.. but now I'm not so sure. When I was working on this plug.. it seemed a bit 'frail'... and it was actually hard to get it seated properly. Another thing I noticed was the the wire had some kind of material covering it (over the insulation) and it was wearing through. Didn't seem to be through the insulation at all but I repaired.. just in case. No idea if that was really causing issues ore if it was just coincedance?????? (Message edited by gamdh on July 20, 2009) (Message edited by gamdh on July 20, 2009) | ||
| Etennuly |
Thanks for that. I will be checking that wire and go much further into my ground connections. That would great if it was something that simple. I am amazed at how many times it has done it, I thought for sure it was fixed, like for over a year now. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Well as of today I'm holding out for the grounds repair solution, knock wood. Took it out this morning for a 100 mile enthusiastic ride, the bike has never run so well since I can remember. I mixed a lot of stop/go city residential traffic with canyon and freeway runs between, had the fan running a lot due to 100 degree temps around here. Pinging was minimal, absolutely unusual for my bike, only occurring when WFO'ing the throttle after heated up stop/go or over gearing. Amazing to me since I've fought this for over three years, and I can't help thinking it's related to the carbon canister plug-off. Did my best to trip the CEL Blinking and skip-spark. Finally happened almost after the 100 mile point when I decided to head home, after a 15 mile blast in 100+ heat at 80 mph with a head wind. No skip-spark, but some blinking for about 10 seconds as I exited the freeway. I've already taped off the worn insulation of the ETS wire and zip-tied it away from the rocker cover, but never really checked the connector. I'll check into that this week when I get in there to finally do a breatherhose-ectomy. Think I've fixed it if not at least a lot closer.  | ||
| Florida_lime |
Tried redoing the ground connections, along with undoing/dielectric grease/repluging connectors on the ECU. !/2 hour at highway speeds had the check engine light flashing along with the skip-spark. So much for that idea for mine.  | ||
| Xbimmer |
So much for that idea for mine. Same here, put 100 miles on mine today flogging in the heat. Bike's running fantastic with no pinging on the highway and very little in town, far better than as delivered to me new and after the dealers messed with it. Except for that friggin light... I was smiling big time until after 100 miles it skip-sparked again. Add to that I noticed more than usual vibes today coming down a mountain road. Sure enough when I got home I discovered the front isolator has collapsed. I'm just gonna bite the bullet and replace the ETS. If that doesn't do it well, any more $$$ and time I spend will more than likely head this way:  | ||
| Arkaybee |
Back home. I kept the bike under 4k and had the dealers at Grand Junction and Denver, CO take a look at it. Neither could find the issue, nor any grounding/loose wire issues and there were no error codes, as expected. Despite the serious heat going through Nevada and Utah both ways, the skip sparking never returned, not that lower RPM's are the solution. FYI, the only reason I went to the Denver dealer was that the left fork seal had started to leak and THAT I want to get taken care of right away. I had eschewed the fork oil replacement at the 10k service in favor of spring change at 20k, based on some recommendations here. Tech said the bushings were very bad, hence the seal leak. Thanks to the heads of the service departments- Chris at Grand Junction HD and Matt at Sun HD in Denver for getting this traveler in on short notice and on the road again. And thanks especially to all of you. I was able to ask much more intelligent questions and direct the line of inquiry through your sharing of your experience and suggestions. I can tell I'm back in Northern California from the the way I wrote that last paragraph. What I mean to say is that "You guys ROCK!". (Message edited by arkaybee on July 23, 2009) (Message edited by arkaybee on July 23, 2009) |
