| Author | Message | ||
     Jdugger |
Anyone running straight water or water wetter in their coolant systems? Yesterday and today I was running into the Temp light coming on when about 20 minutes into track sessions. It's been above 100F here in Texas, and I'm beating the piss out of the bike, for sure, but the poor thing is obviously getting very hot. I'd like to know for those running pure water or at least, "very little glycol" in the mix, if they have seen around a 10F drop in tempratures. That would be probably just enough to keep me out of the red, and would be welcome relief. | ||
| Mr_incognito |
Most guys that run the track a lot run water wetter. Dont run straight water. Theres some other stuff you can get called Engine Ice that ive heard works well. Id definatly go with water wetter though. Most guys say it drops their temp at least 10 degrees. | ||
| Duggram |
I've been running water wetter for quite a while here in NM where temps have been in the 90's without any problems that I know of. And at all times racing on a track. (Message edited by duggram on June 28, 2009) | ||
| Duggram |
Engine Ice has glycol in it and may get you in trouble with the track folks. | ||
| 1_mike |
Glycol is not a coolant. Water works the best of the cheap stuff. From Stewart (auto racing) Water Pumps - -------------------------------------------- Coolant UNEQUIVOCALLY WATER IS THE BEST COOLANT! We recommend using a corrosion inhibitor comparable to Prestone Super Anti-Rust when using pure water. If freezing is a concern, use the minimum amount of antifreeze required for your climate. Stewart Components has extensively tested all of the popular "magic" cooling system additives, and found that none work better than water. In fact, some additives have been found to swell the water pumps seals and contribute to pump failures. In static cooling situations, such as quenching metal during heat treating, softening agents (sometimes referred to as water wetting agents) will allow the water to cool the quenched part more evenly and quickly. The part will cool quicker, and the water will heat up faster. However, an automotive cooling system is not static. In fact, the velocities inside a cooling system are comparable to a fire hose forcing coolant against the walls of the engine's water jackets. If the softening agents actually aided in cooling the engine, the temperature of the coolant as it exited the engine would have to be higher because it would have absorbed more heat. ------------------------------------------- I've thought about using Evans Coolant. I think is legal on the track. Haven't tried it yet. Mike | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
interestingly enough: "One of the most respected manufacturers of small aircraft engines, Rotax, now requires the use of Evans NPG+ in their 912 and 914 series engines. The Rotax Service bulletin that outlines this mandate can be found at http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com." granted its the aircraft engine division but still is a good indicator | ||
| Badlionsfan |
I have a little water wetter mixed with my coolant. Seems to have really helped cool her down. Worth the few bucks IMO | ||
| Spectrum |
Engine Ice has glycol in it and may get you in trouble with the track folks. Do a little search and you'll see an extensive discussion on this, but to make a long story sort, Engine Ice is allowed on most tracks as it does not contain any lubricants and is not toxic. | ||
| Duggram |
...Engine Ice is allowed on most tracks as it does not contain any lubricants and is not toxic. You should tell both WERA and ASMA about this. Neither association would allow me to use it. Engine Ice is specifically banned. In fact I can't find an association that allows it, i.e. MRA, SMRI. I don't participate with any other associations. Even though it's not toxic Engine Ice still contains a form of glycol. That's a fact you just can't BS around. The most important thing to understand about glycol based additives is that they are extremely difficult to clean up. Of course you can disregard the rules and track safety, and run whatever you want. But I've been told that if you do crash and spill some, it ruins your reputation with that association. Not something I want to do. | ||
| Spectrum |
I'm not a racer so can't speak for racing organizations. I do track days and most tracks do allow Engine Ice or Propylene Glycol based additives. There's lots of folks and organizations that are ignorant about the difference between Propylene Glycol and Ethylene Glycol. It doesn't require a degree in chemistry to do a little research to educate yourself. I do know AMA rules specifically state restricts on "ethylene glycol" only. As I stated before Propylene Glycol does not contain lubricants and is not hard to clean up like ethylene glycol which often has to be Burned off the track with a torch. | ||
| Spectrum |
From the Engine Ice website: http://www.engineice.cc/street_main.html "For the 2008 Road Racing season, Engine Ice Hi-Performance Coolant is legal in AMA, CCS and FUSA road racing." | ||
| Duggram |
Thanks I'll pass that information on when appropriate. | ||
| Anonymous |
Please do not use propylene glycol based coolant in your 1125. | ||
| Walt |
Why? Please elaborate on the specifics of your request. | ||
| R2s |
I've had good results using Cool Aid by Maxima. It comes premixed so you don't need to round up deionized water. I really like there products. | ||
| Spectrum |
Please do not use propylene glycol based coolant in your 1125. Looks to me like another comment based lack of knowledge on the subject. Only reason I can think for such a comment is that propylene glycol does not have the anti-corrosive properties of ethylene glycol. Most commercial propylene glycol based antifreeze has other additives to compensate for this. In other words they meet thee same corrosion resistance standards so manufacturers would not have a valid reason to deny warranty. Here are the corrosion resistance requirements to look for when choosing a propylene glycol antifreeze: Corrosion prevention requirements of AS™ D 3306, AS™ D 4985, GM 1899, and GM 1825 including AS™ D 1384 (Glassware Corrosion), AS™ D 2570 (Simulated Service), AS™ D 2809 (Cavitations Erosion - Aluminum Pumps), & AS™ D 4340 (Hot Surface Aluminum Corrosion). (Message edited by spectrum on June 30, 2009) | ||
| Buellrcr |
did you purg the coolant system , to get all the air out. put bike on side stand with cap off start and let idle up to temp .do not rev motor will put air in system. add water and water wetter to top off. | ||
| Clbofaz |
Maybe It's my web searches are biased but I've seen several reports indicating that these products are ineffective. Or at least so close to a non-water wetter mixture that it's hard to tell, i.e. insignificant. Any proper, independent and reputable evidence that shows otherwise? | ||
| Jdugger |
Water Wetter itself is so cheap it doesn't really matter. $10 buys enough of the stuff for several bikes. The real question is "will water work about 10F better than glycol?" That's what I need. Looks like the answer is "probably yes". The other upside to water wetter is it provides some basic lubricants for the waterpump. | ||
| Spectrum |
Neither of the glycols is as efficient of a coolant as water. However, propylene glycol is more efficient than ethylene glycol. | ||
| Anonymous |
Looks to me like another comment based lack of knowledge on the subject. Absolutely not. Ethylene glycol and propylene glycol play differently with different materials. Check the service manual. It calls out ethylene glycol specifically and there is a reason (a tested and confirmed reason). | ||
| Clbofaz |
Could we get a link/quote to said test, for those of us w/o said service manual? And I wonder what would be a good reason to post as "Anonymous" when all were talking about is water wetter... | ||
| Ponti1 |
And I wonder what would be a good reason to post as "Anonymous" when all were talking about is water wetter... Maybe to give information without revealing identity (i.e. "Anonymous")? The post was nothing other than one seeming to provide a word of caution from an individual possibly in the know. Should he/she instead sit back and chuckle silently while people post problems that could have been avoided? | ||
| Blake |
Anony, Please PM me with valid justification for employing the "post as anonymous" option. Thanks, Blake | ||
| Miko_k |
The anonymous posts feel like a word from The Man himself  | ||
| Duggram |
Blake, I hope you're not scaring off a good resource there. I know for a fact that some folks in the BMC race shop monitor this forum. Let's hope they stick around. | ||
| T_man |
+1 Duggram - I thought this was exceedingly obvious. I for one am grateful for any non-speculative solid advice provided by those TRULY in the 'know'. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Heheheheh Blake knows most of the "anonymous" posters on a first name basis. Be assured HE won't scare them off. I'm sure he's trying to ensure this latest cryptic message is FACT. I would like to hear a real reason for not running Propylene Glycol, vs it's more toxic brother Ethylene. Z | ||
| Clbofaz |
I didnt mean to get us off topic or insinuate anything. Figured that any insider advice would've carried a bit more substantiation. Why wouldnt BMC want us to know theres a product that can harm our bikes, like not rear ending Pinto's. Thats all. So, water wetter or not... lets continue. | ||
| Duggram |
Water Wetter. Don't see any reason to switch. It's the one that is universally acceptable. Why create controversy when you don't need to? Z, thanks for the info on Blake. That does make sense doesn't it? |
