| Author | Message | ||
     Jersey_thunder |
MY .02, just read a post and it raised a great question...if your not racing do you need a race ECU? i can understand people wanting the "BEST AND FASTEST" for there machine, but if your not racing and riding VERY HARD will it be a bad thing for street riding?...I'm not sure. we race..and do not have a RACE ECU ..we just dialed in what we have and are very happy with the results..as we continue to raise the bar we would like to put one on. my point is this..other than mental masterbastion..if your not raceing is it needed, NO..take the money and get some track instrutions/saftey gear..learn to use what you have..there is alot of bike there,more than you think. TONY | ||
| Chevycummins |
The reason why I would want the race ecm would be to get rid of the surge problem that drives me crazy. I don't think that I will be spending $700 just to get rid of the surge though. I also wonder if the fuel pressure can be modified with the race ecm, my fuel pressure seems to surge up and down about 10psi or more at that magical surge rpm. I would like to get my fuel pressure more stable if possible and see if that helps correct the surge I experience. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
If for no other reason than to fix what the EPA F***ed up. All other things being equal, the factory would have tuned it "properly" in the first place, but I understand they (BMC) have to play by the rules... R | ||
| Xl1200r |
Yeah, I think most street riders that want the Race ECM are looking more to correct the low-end fueling rather to squeeze out ever last HP. | ||
| Jdugger |
EPA issues aside, across all brands of motorcycles I've noticed the general trend of people thinking the machine has much to do with how fast it can be ridden. The number of Gixxer 1000s with 2-inch chicken strips and owners who think they are fast because of the bike is testiment to this. | ||
| Duggram |
Another good question, if you get a race ECM how will you tune it? There are almost 200 settings through this thing. How will you know when you have it right? I can only imagine the dyno bill. I have one and I buy my map from Dris. | ||
| Nivek |
would the emc spy differ greatly from the racing ecu? i know the ecu would replace or plug into the system where as the spy just modifies what is already there. in my opinion there is next to no other bike like the 1125, i love how it actually feels like a motorcycle with an engine under me. i had a fz6 yamaha and i hated how it was so smooth! If the tuning in the 1125 can be corrected to be smooth in the lower rpm's then the bike would be perfect!  | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
dug i had the same thought the race ecm seems like overkill. just hook it up with ecmspy a cable and some maps. sure it'd be kewl to say i got a race ecm. but that my be using a howitzer to kill a fly. | ||
| Ccryder |
I'm happy with the stock ECM since the last flash. Why spend the $'s to get a race license and then $700 more for the race ECM and then more $'s for another map when this one does most everything very well. If I still had the surging issues that the last flash fixed I might be looking for something else too. I can idle in 1st or 2nd and slowly accelerate from there with no problems. 2500 rpms on up she just chugs away and then flys at 4500-5000 (Hold on at 6000 because she is about ready to take flight, at least the front end). That's my $0.02 and I'm sticking to it ;+} Later Neil S. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Neil - same boat as you. I was going to go the ECMSpy route, but the lastest flash, while still not perfect, is good enough that I don't feel the need to mess with it anymore. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Pussies. <grin> R | ||
| Buellhist_monk |
Off topic... Pussies have a lot going for them. And more is better. (Message edited by Buellhist_monk on June 26, 2009) | ||
| Gregtonn |
Moving slightly back to topic. Are the stock ECM and Flash tested at altitude? G | ||
| Duggram |
What kind of altitude you talking about? Pikes Peak? | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
what ever problems your having with your bikes...what makes you think you can tune it out with the race ecm that you can't do with the stock one? JT (Message edited by jersey_thunder on June 26, 2009) | ||
| Socoken |
Wouldnt less experienced or talented riders need more power to keep up on the straits? As an equalizer more or less? The whole Idea of "more power will not make you faster" is not something I understand. There are a few "hoity toity" racers on here that think they are the only ones that should be allowed more power. If power didnt matter, I would be riding a Harley. Do you need beer? NO Do you need tv? NO Do you need the internet? NO Do you need air conditioning? NO But they sure as F*CK are nice to have arent they? (Message edited by Socoken on June 26, 2009) | ||
| T_man |
Yes INDEEDY Socoken! I completely agree with you on this one. The more power the better PERIOD. However as a former racer, perhaps I can shed a little light on the 'more power will not make you faster' comment. It takes a great deal more discretion by the rider to modulate an open class bike through a series of bends opposed to say a 400cc bike where you can use every last inch of performance to get around the same set of bends. In summary; on the track, too much power can overwhelm the rider (even a good one) and actually result in slower lap-times or sometimes a big ugly highside. To steer this back to the 1125R though - I have say it has the ideal power curve where you could just as easily short shift until you felt comfortable enough to tread into the hyper high Hp rev range. So in the end - the 1125R has it all. Big twins rule. T Man out. | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
SOCOKEN, i'm sorry you don't understand...why don't you get some track time and find out.. ALL THE POWER YOU CAN GET OUT OF IT WON'T MAKE A BIT OF DIFFERENCE IF YOU CAN'T RIDE IT.. i get the impression you have never been on a track? i have seen much less HP bike stomp large horse power bikes on the track..and if you read my post it said.."if your not raceing is it needed, NO..take the money and get some track instrutions/saftey gear..learn to use what you have.. JT | ||
| Buellhist_monk |
Damn fine bike as is. It's nice having a bike as capable as the 25R, which for me is like a badge of superiority over my fellow humans. (Message edited by Buellhist_monk on June 26, 2009) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I have seen 250 Ninjas smoke liter bikes on the track. Riding a motorcycle is 80% rider, 20% bike. Driving a car is 20% driver, 80% car. Basically when you get to the liter-bike category, whether it be IL4 or V-2, only expert class riders can use the extra HP to go faster. Any "normal" rider is going to be as fast on a 1125r as Gixxer 1000--not talking about straight line speed, any moron can twist the throttle. | ||
| Socoken |
Dont get me wrong, I understand the vast majority of speed is a product of rider talent and not raw horsepower. Sure, phenomenal riders on slow bikes can beat poor riders on fast bikes. But its hard for me to accept that I would turn faster times on a ninja 250 than I would on a literbike. Or even that my lap times would be faster on an XB9R than on my 1125r. I just dont buy that for a second. | ||
| Gregtonn |
...What kind of altitude you talking about? Pikes Peak?... Sure. At 14,110 ft that would be an acceptable test. But I was more concerned with places I've been; like Bear Tooth Pass (10,947 ft) and Death Valley (-196 ft). My carbureted S3 gets a little testy at those extremes. I wondered how the 1125s react. G | ||
| Fresnobuell |
You are comparing yourself on each bike, which would means equal skill level. Put an expert rider on your XB9r versus you on your 1125r and I wonder what would happen (assuming you are not an expert rider.) | ||
| Jdugger |
> But its hard for me to accept that I would turn faster times on a ninja 250 than I would on a literbike So, you can accept that Rossi would turn way faster times on a Ninja 250 than you would on a liter bike at a track... that's good, because it *would* happen. Here's some of the reasons why *you* would beat yourself on a Ninja 250 vs. a liter bike... It would partly depend on the track. A 3 mile track with 6 turns clearls favors a liter bike. Something tight and small, like the 1.1 mile Oak Hill with 11 turns, will favor a smaller bike, because you could never stretch the legs of the liter bike, anyway. The small Ninja 250 will have light steering vs. the heavy liter bike. And, because the key of a track is *NOT* how fast you go, but how fast you go ON AVERAGE, your ability to flick the lighter bike through the tight corners where all that extra HP of the liter bike is useless, anyway, will make a big difference. You will be maintaining higher speeds ON AVERAGE. The small little ninja will also feel more confident to you. When you are in a 30-mph hairpin corner, the touchy throttle of the liter bike becomes an enormous liability. But, on the little ninja you can almost modulate between WFO and off with reckless abandon and not worry about a thing! You will OWN the ninja 250. The liter bike will OWN you. | ||
| Socoken |
The original theory posted was that more power wouldnt make the same rider faster, as these bikes are already too fast for the novice. There is no doubt faster riders, are, well, faster than slower riders. A better way to put it might have been, "Track days and racing schools will make your times drop much more than 10hp will." That is something I also agree with. But to say more power wont make the same rider faster, or that it might even make him/her slower, doesnt make sense to me. Of course, there is a tipping point. If a bike is WAY too powerful and the rider WAY too green, sure. But that would be the exception, not the rule. | ||
| R2s |
My friend who I do track days with went from a Ducati 749R to a 1098S. The 1098 makes more power then the 749 but his lap times were about the same for the first 3 track days, even though he thought he was going faster. Sure the straight line speed was greater but he ended up grabbing more brake and starting braking sooner resulting in actually slower corner speed and less momentum. Coming out of turns he couldn't apply the power as soon and as aggressively. His lap times now are quicker than on his smaller bike but only by about a second. Set up, brakes, good rubber and getting comfortable with the feel of your bike will do more extra than extra ponies. I've passed a lot of R1's on my ol SV650S. ( 70hp vs 160, do the math.) | ||
| Krassh |
Damn where is that video with the little kid riding a 125 2 stroke race bike and kicking the butts of the adults on liter bikes. | ||
| Ruprecht |
I would have thought that anyone riding a sportbike, especially on the street, would understand the difference between "need" and "want"... Otherwise we'd all be riding ninja 250s eh? Whether it's the rush of acceleration, the feel of riding an edgy race rep, bragging rights or the pure mechanical desirability of badass, high power machinery... It is all blokes in this thread right? | ||
| Clbofaz |
A novice's "first bike" experience could demonstrate this threads underlying theme well. A new rider buys a 1000ish CC bike and finds he gets 50+ mpg, but, after learning to ride has no problem making that drop to the teens. Same rider, after getting experience, gets a bike with more HP but find that his fuel economy doesn't fluctuate as much. Had he had the greater horsepower as a novice he would've seen the same mileage effect as if it were a weaker bike. Take away: raw power matters *most* when the rider can successfully manage it. Otherwise, your just burning gas, literally. Seems like everyone's got a bit of a different "relevant range," yet they overlap significantly. Also, I think we all tend to forget about significance. Does a grand for a race ECM and more cash for a sportier bike really pay off for the average rider when all you see are small incremental reductions in lap time? Maybe, if you have sponsors and race for prizes, etc. Do most of us have this? Doubtful. Naturally, this is just my observation and HO. (Message edited by clbofaz on June 27, 2009) | ||
| Jersey_thunder |
"The original theory posted was that more power wouldnt make the same rider faster, as these bikes are already too fast for the novice." where was that? |
