| Author | Message | ||
     T_man |
After being denied the 05z flash from my closest dealer (I won't get into it here) I did a little research I found an interesting trend. The early 'bucking bronco' '08 1125R's seem to have made more HP (average 130Hp) than the later models; specifically the 'buttery smooth' '09 1125R (average 120Hp) at the rear wheel. While I understand the factory 'flashes' aim to smooth out the snatchiness and power delivery, BUT is it possible they also robbed some of the bikes raw horsepower? I recall a very similar situation with the venerable '97 TL1000S - with its original fuel map posted high horsepower #'s but was consequently called a 'widow maker' by the press and Suzuki replaced its ECM with a 'smoother' fuel map. In its later years (99-01) the fueling was smoothed out but with the loss of at least 10hp on top. Any comments on this strikingly similar correlation? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
No "real" proof, but my gut instinct is that you are dead on. It would be enlightening to know what the criteria for the EPA is for approving the fueling on a motorcycle. My guess is that in order to smooth the bottom end (ie adding fuel), BMC has to take from the top end. | ||
| Edgydrifter |
My gut says it's a fact, too. Before reflashing, my R surged and kicked at low speeds around town. After updating, it became buttery smooth in these same conditions. Unfortunately, I felt a definite and significant drop in power at higher speeds. Double unfortunately, I found myself almost missing the "spirited" character my bike had at low speeds before. On balance, the bike is much better suited to the daily commute now. Still... | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
guess thats why the PC's with selectable maps are popular or at least were i haven't been into that much lately so it may have changed. would be great for those of us that like it simple to get a plug in and go unit. or is there one and i have somehow missed it? | ||
| Smoke |
you missed it! there is a way to add more back on the top. xoptimike fixed up my race bike for me. there are a few threads about the 1125 ecm. tim | ||
| Xbswede |
Yup no problems getting the power back and then some and there is even a easy plug and load available now for stock bikes. | ||
| Edgydrifter |
Cool! I'll do a thread search. | ||
| Socoken |
How can they take 10 hp out of these bikes and not change the factory rating? | ||
| Kttemplar |
I have not dynod my bike after the 05z, but I did have it dynod at Liberty after the flash prior to the 05Z 20SEP2008 DYNOd @ Liberty HD/Buell 128.92 HP/73.57 Torque 6047 miles on bike 81.42F @ 27% Humidity Mike | ||
| 1_mike |
Wondering....why is the max rpm horse power the Holy Grail..? Just how long...how many times a day/trip...is spent at this magical rpm..? Me....I'd gladly give up 10/15 hp (at max rpm) for more usable power (torque) at the 3000 to 8500rpm (or 9000rpm) range than the high power at max. rpm. In most circumstances...higher power at higher rpm levels...sacrifices mid range power..! And at just what rpm range is most of ones time spent...........? This is just like working on cylinder heads. Too many people spend their whole time looking for a "maximum" flow..at the "maximum" valve lift... They don't take into account that lower lifts mean much more to the overall power output of that engine than just at max. lift. But I guess that just me...living, driving in the real world. Mike | ||
| Kttemplar |
1_mike, That is a good point. Mike | ||
| Ruprecht |
The difference between the '97 TL1000S and the later models wasn't just the ecm. The heads have different size/shaped ports. | ||
| Xbswede |
"And at just what rpm range is most of ones time spent...........?" For me 6k-9k on weekend rides and 4k-6k weekdays. I don't ride freeways or at most 15 minute to get to the next side road with twisties. If I have to slab it I drive or take the V-rod.  This bike is way too much fun to cruise in a straight line. I tired to go in a straight line and I got a speeding ticket so its back to back roads for me. | ||
| T_man |
I agree with you as well 1_Mike - useable midrange power is by far more practical than outright peak Hp #'s. However, the question I raised concerning these flashes is whether or not they are sacrificing performance for ridability. I can only speak for myself but if forced to choose between ridability vs more performance - I'll take the edgy high Hp bike any day of the week. | ||
| Zac4mac |
I have the most current flash on Loretta. Went for a "spirited" ride at lunch today with my boss. He has a 955i Daytona. Loretta did just fine.  Oh, maybe it was that magic K&N I put on right before the ride... Z | ||
| Bob_thompson |
"Oh, maybe it was that magic K&N I put on right before the ride..." All kidding aside Zac, for us guys in altitude, anything to get more air flow/fuel through the engine, I believe, will help our performance up here at 4500 ft.for me and more in your case. With my inner air box removed and my muffler system my bike has never run so good or so hard. AFR's have adapted just fine. Bob | ||
| Socoken |
Usable horsepower/torque my ass! Am I really the only one bothered by a 10 hp drop? We have guys spending thousands on a muffler to get 10 hp and no one cares when a factory flash takes away 10hp? There are some serious kool aid drinkers in here........... | ||
| Zac4mac |
I had Loretta dynoed on 2 different dynos at 700 and 7000 miles. The dynos were within 1/4 mile of each other and she pulled 126-127 hp SAE corrected. They were both freebies, no torque plot or A/F level. I got a print-out of the 7k mile run, IIRC it was 126.8. Time frame early Spring and late Spring 2008. First run was B3HUS01W calibration, second was M3HUS02Y. She ran like a popcorn machine thru much of this, the 7000 mile run was right before I left for Homecoming. After I got back from that trip, the ECM finally learned and she got butter-smooth. At my altitude, wheelies are much more difficult than at sea level, so I may have lost 10 HP and not know it. Loretta still feels very quick and very fast. I'll try to get a run on one of the two dynos so something is the same, soon. Z |
