| Author |
Message |
    
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 01:48 am: | 
|
Until Buell can compete at the superbike level and iron out reliability, many serious sport riders aren't gonna line up.
Serious sport riders? Those are few and far between. The squids are too ignorant to appreciate the 1125r. Serious sport riders usually give the 1125r the respect it deserves. Too bad squids are the majority of the sportbike market. |
Clarkjw
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 01:10 pm: |
|
Steve Atlas gave the Buell plenty respect...but when he asked Buell to take on the liter bikes and 1198, Buell declined. That says WE have some catching up to do. Higbee's 15th place finishes in AMA Superbike says more catchup is needed.
Instead of consolidating manu plants, how about we hire someone who can optimize fuel injection and air intake so that the bike doesn't shake itself to death.
How about we get a decent designer like Julius Ilmberger and actually give RMR/FlexiGlass a listen (you can add fans and still have air flow in-to-out).
Buell has had the chassis sorted since 2002. It's time they focused on the shortcommings.
I want this bike to be the best in to world. I own one. I talked with my wallet.
Wishing, racing supersports, and not knowing the metric system won't make it so. |
Redbuelljunkie
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 02:06 pm: |
|
There's a dealer in north central Florida currently running tv ads stating '09 1125CR's are $8,995. I can't recommend the dealership, but it another example of how the prices keep coming down... |
Dave_bogue
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 02:38 pm: |
|
"Until Buell can compete at the superbike level and iron out reliability, many serious sport riders aren't gonna line up."
===========================
Buell doesn't have to be able "to compete at the superbike level" to sell the 1125. The 1125 is a streetbike, not a race-replica.
I do strongly agree that Buell needs to "iron out reliability" issues to attract the typical buyer of Japanese performance motorcycles.
As to "serious sport riders", what BMC needs is serious qualified buyers.
Most motorcyclists do not race, nor do they attend track days. On the other hand, there are many "serious" enthusiasts who enjoy riding a high performance V twin motorcycle because it is not mainstream. We buy them because they are different from the hordes of inline four sportbikes. The V2 has it's own special charisma.
However, as with any product a potential consumer considers, reliability is the cornerstone of the purchase decision. Nobody likes to take a new motorcycle back to the dealer to correct problems.
Dave
Bradenton Fl |
Dave_bogue
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 02:43 pm: |
|
RedBuellJunkie,
What dealer is that?
Dave |
Clarkjw
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 03:19 pm: |
|
Dave,
I'd bet if Buell podiumed in any AMA Superbike round, they'd move 1,000 more units that year. I'll put up $200 even money as open bet (assumming they revise the fairing).
I came from Kwak 250 to a Yamaha 600 to a XB9R to 1125R. The 1125 is the only bike I took to the dealer, ever. Let's just say it's more than once and is going back tomorrow (probably to fix fouled or corroded spark plugs, the clear procedure didn't work and it barely starts).
I think lots of superbike buyers do trackdays. Most people that would set foot in a Harley dealer aren't typical performance riders. I hate going to the dealer and getting weird looks from knife carrying patch wearing chrome lovers. I think it scares some would be buyers away, especially when there is no superbike creedence.
I purchased my bike for the handling and powerband. Not to be different. If Honda made their CBR a V-4 with a revised tank. I'd be all over it. If the RSV-4 Standard ever comes stateside, I'll probably trade in my Buell (for a new helmet or whatever it's worth by then).
While Buell's twin has character, I've also ridden a 1098 and and 848 on the track...they weren't lacking.
Buell has so much going for it. Look at the passion on this board alone. It's American, handles well, is super street friendly and is accessible nationwide. Reliability, fueling and creative marketing are small things compared to how far they've come. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 03:58 pm: |
|
It will be fun to revisit this thread in two months. . . . |
Dave_bogue
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 04:01 pm: |
|
"Buell has so much going for it. Look at the passion on this board alone. It's American, handles well, is super street friendly and is accessible nationwide. Reliability, fueling and creative marketing are small things...."
===============================
The 1125 does have a lot going for it.
Fueling issues (just like other production bikes) can be addressed by the aftermarket. Witness the popularity of the Power Commander. I have had jet kits and PCs on several bikes. Driveability issues are solvable.
The 1125 is not in the same performance class as the popular liter superbikes, (ZX, GSXR, R1, CBR). The V2 is down about 30 rwhp. Retail prices are similar however.
I don't think the 1125 is supposed to compete with the Japanese race-replicas. The 1125 is a rider-friendly V2 sportbike for the street rider.
Reliability is NOT a small thing.
Consumer Reports Magazine has been a success because the American consumer wants reliable products.
Dave
Bradenton Fl |
Clarkjw
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 05:30 pm: |
|
Ya, just meant reliability shouldn't too hard address entering year 3. It's def important!
As released, the 1125 isn't meant to compete. But a stock CBR is gonna be 5+ seconds off race pace, even in Hayden's hands. Also, the Ducati 1198 is down 15 HP and is much closer to race trim than any Buell.WSBK rules allow for overbore to 1200cc on V-2 from stock config. I'd guess AMA is similar, but don't quote me. We'll know for sure in 2010 when KTM enters WSBK. |
Ducdood9
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 07:35 pm: |
|
One Mans Opinion.
1. Reliability Matters to me.
2. Looks mater to me.
1125 is not the same price as the I4 1000 crowd, it cost more. I think that is more than OK if those two above items are addressed in 2010. Third model year should equal highly refined! |
Oddball
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 07:53 pm: |
|
redbuell,
So they're running tv ads for it? I just checked their site a couple days ago and saw that price. Made me think hmm. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 08:51 pm: |
|
1125 is not the same price as the I4 1000 crowd, it cost more.
2009 models
gixxer 1000 $12,899
buell 1125r $12,499
yamaha r-1 $12,390
honda 1000cbrr $11,999
kawi zx-10R $11,799 |
Puredrive
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 09:03 pm: |
|
So has anyone gotten a good price on a 1125 CR? |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, June 15, 2009 - 11:52 pm: |
|
Excellent fact posting Fres. |
Ducdood9
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 12:13 am: |
|
My apologies for saying the Buell was higher than the 1000 crowd. Im sorry I was wrong on one model of four. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 01:58 am: |
|
The point is all of the bikes are very much in the same ballpark. I don't think a few hundred dollars difference makes a large impact on the buying decision. |
Ducdood9
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 02:45 am: |
|
I would agree. I guess my point I was trying for was that people will pay more when you excel all around such as Ducati. |
Pizzaboy
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 04:10 am: |
|
It will be fun to revisit this thread in two months. . . .
court, i hate how you hint at information that is to become public!! GAHHH!! i wanna know what is in store for '10 soooo bad!!! |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 06:02 am: |
|
>>>>My apologies for saying the Buell was higher than the 1000 crowd. Im sorry I was wrong on one model of four.
Don't feel bad, there are tons of misconceptions about the Buells. It's frankly a bike you really need to ride to appreciate.
You are correct, but only to an extent, with regard to the Ducati. A young friend just bought one and it may or may not be better than a Buell but at $75,000 I simply laugh at him.
I suppose it's about personal value and utility. |
Ponti1
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 06:56 am: |
|
court, i hate how you hint at information that is to become public!! GAHHH!! i wanna know what is in store for '10 soooo bad!!!
Yeah, I was reading down through this thread and had copied Court's text to quote in my own similar post. You beat me to it, but I will still be mulling over those few words from him all day... |
Avc8130
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 07:45 am: |
|
Court, we need answers...PLEASE, pretty PLEASE w/ sugar on top!
ac |
Xb984r
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 08:07 am: |
|
"The point is all of the bikes are very much in the same ballpark. I don't think a few hundred dollars difference makes a large impact on the buying decision."
Except that most magazines compare them with the 600's and that's what they race against.Now your talking more than a few hundred dollars.Most people that are going to by a 1000 I4 aren't going to give Buell a look. |
Elvis
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 09:01 am: |
|
Here are a few bikes that aren't competitive in Superbike but more expensive than those that are. I wouldn't kick any of these out of my garage:
You'll notice that the last three are also eligible to race against those "little 600's" in AMA Sportbike, but none have been as competitive as the 1125R.
Many of you will also remember when Ferracci (an outstanding, well-funded, experienced team) contested the MV Augusta in AMA Superbike and struggled through the whole season.
Superbike is an exclusive club and very difficult to break into. I could probably even add the Ducati 1198 to the list of bikes that aren't competitive in Superbike since it's the $40,000 1098R - not the basic 1198 that is competitive.
. . . and what about the BMW S1000RR? Is that bike "competitive? I think that point could be argued.
Personally, I think the fact that an underfunded, older (Sorry Shawn) privateer who has not raced in the AMA recently can hop on a lower-than-allowed displacement stock 1125R and score a couple 15th place finishes in a very tough field on a bike that has not yet begun to be developed and is down 50 HP against the competition is pretty amazing and speaks to the potential of this platform if it is ever optimized for the class and contested by a big-budget team with a top rider.
(Message edited by elvis on June 16, 2009) |
Spike
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2009 - 11:08 am: |
|
Just some food for thought:
A local dealer has new 2008 R1s on craigslist for $8749 (MSRP was $11,699)
A guy on ADVrider almost bought a new 2008 Concours 14 for $9800 (MSRP was $12,899)
Neither offer is as low as what we've seen on some of the 1125Rs, but the bottom line is that motorcycle sales are off and everybody is offering big discount on leftover stock. Factor that in with the "off" launch of the 1125R and the sheer number of them still sitting at dealers and ~$7k plus fees doesn't seem like such a falling sky scenario. |
Redbuelljunkie
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 03:47 pm: |
|
Dave- sorry for the delayed response, I had surgery yesterday to remove the titanium from my right lower leg (from my accident in January '08). A H-D dealer with shops in Ocala and Crystal River has been running ads here in Jacksonville saying '09 CR's are $8,995. I have never heard good things about this dealer, but I wanted to pass the info along. I personally travel about an hour and a half to Gainesville for all my service- G'ville Buell is worth the drive. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 04:01 pm: |
|
Nice post Elvis. |
Dobieg2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 04:16 pm: |
|
Honestly I think the 1125r is very competitive. 15th in Superbike is great for a bike that is lacking so much HP compared to the competition. It is a real testament to Higbee's riding. I believe that if Buell had the capital they would release an 1190-99 RR and it would be very competitive. But they would also have to have a market for it, it would be very expensive. Look at KTM, the RC8 1148cc hasn't really competed, yet they knew it wasn't enough for WSB so they release the RC8R 1199cc for racing. The 1125r has done very well in europe vs similar twins even besting some of the more powerful ones. |
Ibppjr
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 04:27 pm: |
|
I got a great deal on my 1125R, $8K and a little bit OTD.
+1 on the 1125R being competitive. On the street it's "run what ya brung" and the big Buell is a great weapon of choice IMO. Besides it's unique looking and sounds awesome! |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2009 - 04:45 pm: |
|
Besides it's unique looking and sounds awesome!
No, the idea is to blend into the hords of IL4s....what are you trying to say? |
Ponti1
| | Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 06:59 am: |
|
No, the idea is to blend into the hords of IL4s....what are you trying to say?
Just so there's no confusion...That was sarcasm.  |
Ducdood9
| | Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 12:18 pm: |
|
I know I'm the new kid here but Fresnobuell, you really seem angry at the world.
Lets talk about it. Do you like your mom?
what do you see in this picture?
 |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 01:03 pm: |
|
Ducdood, thanks for the internet psycho-analysis, but I'll leave that assessment to my real shrink...just kidding, not seeing one...yet!!!
Thanks Andrew for trying to head the head the confusion off at the pass. Too bad some people don't bother to read or don't understand what they are reading. Does that sound angry? |
Oddball
| | Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2009 - 01:04 pm: |
|
 |
|
